manu - arse, ratings

[sabret00the]

All I'm gonna say is judge him in three months time, when this formation is properly bedded in, and we have a proper and consistent midfield in front of him.

I don't understand how you think that's gonna change him as a player. he simply lacks imagination, confidence and ability. this is a guy that thinks as soon as he can get around the box, he'll just cross it, even if no one is there. he's limited. you compare that to example with someone who has the ability to play the ball, change the pace of the game and pick the pass or wind back play till the pass is on and it's a different story. sagna was always limited but the current train of thought of this team where by you pass it to the full backs for them to cross is, is down to laziness and a lack of imagination.

 

[kel varnsen]

All I'm gonna say is judge him in three months time, when this formation is properly bedded in, and we have a proper and consistent midfield in front of him.

I don't understand how you think that's gonna change him as a player. he simply lacks imagination, confidence and ability. this is a guy that thinks as soon as he can get around the box, he'll just cross it, even if no one is there. he's limited. you compare that to example with someone who has the ability to play the ball, change the pace of the game and pick the pass or wind back play till the pass is on and it's a different story. sagna was always limited but the current train of thought of this team where by you pass it to the full backs for them to cross is, is down to laziness and a lack of imagination.

well said. when you for instance see arshavin drifting inwards from his left side and clichy is making a run on the outside, you already know this attacking move is wasted. arshavin will pass the ball out to clichy, who in turn will hoof the ball aimlessly and blindly into the box. have we ever even created a decent goal chance from this set up?

clichy and sagna might be defensively extremely solid, but they are not good going forward. compared to say evra, who is great defensively and going forward, the difference is significant.

 

[sabret00the]

I wouldn't even say Clichy is that great defensively. He can't be outpaced, but always looks second best when up against anyone with better than average close control.

 

[gstew]

Yes, my outburst is childish. I am still angry about the game, so people spouting BS is pissing me off more than usual.

2nd issue first....you are describing things that you say Song did poorly as relevant to this conversation. They are not. You stated that Song has poor mobility, but you are full of s**t. Repeating what others say does not mean that YOU are not full of s**t. Song is our fastest and most mobile CM.

Now first issue. Sit in front of the replay with a referee and a rule book and they will both point to the fact they you are 100% wrong. That is a foul nowhere else on the field. Not a foul, then not a penalty. Treating fouls inside the box as different as ones outside the box point to someone that is not aware of the rules of the game.

Re: Song. What conversation?? I said his mobility hinders us at times - valid point. Hardly calling him a lumbering oaf. I thought he was average yesterday and am sure there are examples of him getting outpaced as I wouldn't have wrote it otherwise. I mentioned the free-kick he gave away and I'll PM you more when I rewatch the game. In an offensive sense aswell I felt he didn't drive into space that was there.

Where did I say Song has poor mobility?? Quote me on it before you start making statements like that. I said his lack of mobility hinders us at times, especially in a game like yesterday without our main creative players.

Most mobile CM?? Nasri and Denilson would beg to differ.

As for the penalty, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. Fouls are regularly treated differently inside the box than outside regardless of what any rule-book says. Not disputing that Rooney went down easy but the questions are: Did Almunia make contact?? YES. Did Almunia win the ball??NO. Penalty.

Forget semantics...you want to argue that "lack of mobility" is not the same as saying he has "poor mobility"? Well then I stand corrected. "Lack of mobility" directly states that he is immobile. Whereas "poor mobility" just intimates that he is below average. You are correct sir, you didn't state that Song had below average mobility, you stated that he has none at all. Thank you for the correction that makes your original observation even more ignorant than I had pointed out.

Also, you are quite correct that defining a penalty should not be done in the objective manner of reading the rule book, but in the subjective way that many poor referees decide to apply the rule. Therefore, I stand corrected once again. I was wrong that it wasn't a penalty because of the explicit rules of the game. You are right. It must have been a penalty because Dean misinterpreted the rules again. By definition then, no refereeing decisions are wrong as long as another ref might make that same decision. I am glad that this is now clear to me. It will make watching games far less stressful knowing that if a referee makes a decision, that that decision is inherently correct because he made it. And if he had made the opposite decision it would have also been correct.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident"

 

[progman07]

All I'm gonna say is judge him in three months time, when this formation is properly bedded in, and we have a proper and consistent midfield in front of him.

I don't understand how you think that's gonna change him as a player. he simply lacks imagination, confidence and ability. this is a guy that thinks as soon as he can get around the box, he'll just cross it, even if no one is there. he's limited. you compare that to example with someone who has the ability to play the ball, change the pace of the game and pick the pass or wind back play till the pass is on and it's a different story. sagna was always limited but the current train of thought of this team where by you pass it to the full backs for them to cross is, is down to laziness and a lack of imagination.

Unfortunately, this is 100% true.

Sagna is a cross-merchant going forward. Give him the ball and he'll rush down the right and cross.

In itself, it wouldn't be a problem, because a full back rarely does more than this, unless he can cut in and make some runs into the box. The issue is, we play the ball too often out wide to Sagna, and let him do his stuff. For example, if the central players can choose, they'd rather play the ball out to Sagna than to Arshavin, and that's a huge issue. We should play our attackers into attacking positions, not our defenders.

 

[fabo]

gstew, I'm 100% sure it was a pen. We can berate the ref and Rooney but fact is Almunia rushed out with arms outstretched, made contact and never gained control of the ball. It's a foul. There's a grey area no doubt but the basis remains the same..Almunia has to get the ball in a situation like that.

Song is not incredibly mobile. Not a bash on the lad as most of our midfielders lack great mobility. It's been a problem since Flamini left IMO. And as I said it's a hindrance 'at times', that time being yesterday when we missed so many creative players who can help retain the ball. He had opportunities to start attacks from deep but didn't use them, opting to shield the ball and go safe. Just my observation.

Despite everyone saying we dominated the midfield, I'd like to see the stats as I'm sure United had more possession - I think they simply had very little quality to hurt us bar getting a helping hand from us. The attack was toothless for the most part.

 

[qs]

Almunia - 4

Sagna - 8
Gallas - 8
Vermaelen - 7
Clichy - 6

Song - 6
Denilson - 6
Diaby - 2

Eboue - 3
Arshavin - 6
RvP - 6

 

[Timleaf]

We look a good, well-rounded team to me. Obviously it remains to be seen if we have the required belief and toughness to win the title, but I think we're stronger than we were two years ago when we went pretty damn close.

Anyone can lose at Old Trafford.

 

[lagos]

it was a pen the minute almunia decided to rush out. Rooney played for the penalty and Almunia was not calm enough or intelligent enough to read Rooneys intent and react accordingly

 

[stiiphunn]

it was a pen the minute almunia decided to rush out. Rooney played for the penalty and Almunia was not calm enough or intelligent enough to read Rooneys intent and react accordingly

definitely. it was always going to be a pen. it always is in these situations. nothing to complain about.

 

[Burnwinter]

Almunia - 4
Sagna - 8
Gallas - 8.5
Vermaelen - 7
Clichy - 6

Song - 6
Denilson - 6
Diaby - 4

Eboue - 2
Arshavin - 7
RvP - 5

Bendtner, Ramsey, Eduardo: I won't rate these guys out of 10, but I do note that none of them managed to save the game for us.

 

[True Gooner]

it was a pen the minute almunia decided to rush out. Rooney played for the penalty and Almunia was not calm enough or intelligent enough to read Rooneys intent and react accordingly

I agree. Had Almunia pulled away like Brouc did Rooney would have been exposed but unfortunately he fell for it and Dean really didn't have much option there.

 

[eye4goal]

Almunia 5.5 - Needs to improve his communication with his defenders. Looked shaky after the penalty

Sagna 8 - Kept Evra and Nani quiet largely on his own. Needs to vary his game in the final third

Clichy 6.5- Same as Sagna going forward. Good defensive performance

Gallas 8- Man Utd's width meant he was dragged into wide positions a couple of times and he got turned once or twice but was imperious mostly

Vermaelen 7.5 Very solid player. Largely untroubled if less involved than Gallas

Song 6 Mixed performance. Struggled towards the end I thought

Denilson 6 Great workrate but he turned into trouble far too many times. We lost our shape after he was subbed

Diaby 5. A couple of nice turns and great runs but thats all you get from him. Good first half but struggled as soon as they stepped up

Arshavin 6.5. Looks like Wenger restricted him to left wing. He should have taken more playmaking responsibility with Cesc out but his fitness was not there. Still dangerous if peripheral

Van Persie 7. Incredibly unlucky when 2 goalbound efforts hit Evra and then Foster. Improved performance

Eboue 6 Worked hard defensively but was indecisive on afew promising situations

 

[Shadow Moses]

Almunia - 4
Sagna - 7
Gallas - 8
Vermaelen - 8
Clichy - 7

Song - 7
Denilson - 4
Diaby - 4

Eboue - 4
Arshavin - 6 (Would've been a 4 like the rest of the attacking players if not for the moment of magic)
RvP - 4

 

[lagos]

Almunia 5.5 - Needs to improve his communication with his defenders. Looked shaky after the penalty

he was shaky well before the penalty

 

[BannedKwame]

Almunia - 6

Sagna - 7
Gallas - 9
Vermaelen - 7
Clichy - 6

Song - 6
Denilson - 7
Diaby - 6

Eboue - 5
Arshavin - 5
RvP - 5

 

[mjkgooner]

peeps we got alot of positives to take from this, a couple of wins doesn't make us the best team in the universe and one very avoidable defeat make us the worst team in the uiverse.

by the way, bilol and tommy V were monsters yesterday in my opinion, we just lacked a bit of craft in midfield, i think if u put Nasri in for Denislon and Cesc for Diaby we have a great libne up,

only 3 games gone lets keep behind the lads.

 

[ricky1985]

Right, I've watched the game again.

Almunia - 4. He had very little to do in the whole match. Claimed one cross well in the first half, but ultimately cost us the game with a moment of sheer madness.

Sagna - 9. Absolutely destroyed Nani! Started a little slowly, Nani got in one or two nothing crosses from his side in the first 10 minutes or so, but once he warmed to his task he was absolutely imperious thereafter. Criticisms of Sagna's attacking pay yesterday are revisionism at it's best. He put in 5 very good balls into great areas, and the stick-on penalty Arshavin won was as a result of a great cross by Sagna. He bombed up and down the right hand side, unfortunately Eboue was the player he was trying to link with.

Gallas - 9. Made one or two errors in judgement, but the only time Rooney wasn't in his pocket was when Vermaelen picked him up and put him in his. World class at the moment, best defender in the League hands down!

Vermaelen - 8. Zen like in his composure. Ultra calm on the ball, and completely dominated Rooney from start to finish. Also dealt with Vidic from corners and set-pieces very well - they must have had about 10-15 corners/set-pieces (because that was their only threat) and Vidic got the better of him twice. Both times he challenged him hard, but the ball broke to Vidic. Very impressive. If this was his first real test he passed with flying colours.

Clichy - 7. Made some poor decisions defensively, dwelling on the ball once in our box, almost fatally. And still isn't 100% sure where exactly he should be when he comes narrow and the ball is switched to his side. The time when Valencia shot over (with O'Shea overlapping) he made a really poor decision not to get close to Valencia to start with. The best word to describe his offensive game yesterday is atrocious. Gave the ball away far too many times. Owned Valencia one-on-one though, but at this point he is definitely the weak link of the back four.

Song - 7. Made some extremely good tackles and interceptions. Absolutely roasted Giggs for pace on one occasion also. Some good passing under pressure, but also some loose moments where he was caught on the ball or gave it away under pressure. Misses having Fabregas alongside him, he knows he can just give him the ball and relax.

Denilson - 7. Typical Denilson display - some good parts and some bad parts. His passing from deep was fairly accurate, although he still picks the wrong option far too often. Also caught dwelling on the ball once or twice, but did make some clever interceptions to initiate attacks. However, his passing in the final third is just criminally bad, had 5+ chances to play in a teammate and failed every time. It wasn't always easy, but we should expect better from an Arsenal midfielder.

Diaby - 4. Now I've heard lots of people say 'the own goal aside, he played well'. So on re-watching the game I made a conscious effort to really analyse Diaby's performance, and I feel he was a passenger for the practically the whole game. He didn't tackle or make interceptions like Song and Denilson. His passing was absolutely horrible, also showed a lack of effort in his pressing. There were definitely one or two good moments from him, the skewed shot wide, where he showed fantastic balance to weave his way through, and sit Nemanja Vidic on his arse. Also the break down the right where Rooney very nearly lashed out at him. But overall he was a liability who offered very little to us in both offense and attack. He is not a centre midfielder, nor will he ever be.

Eboue - 0. The worst player on the pitch, bar none. Astonishingly bad. This is not through anger or dislike, he simply was incredibly bad. Move, after move, after move broke down because of him. He missed a great chance at 1-0, completely missing the ball at the back post. He also one of the laziest members of our team - guess who wasn't closing down when Giggs had all the time in the world to pick that through ball for Rooney? You gueesed it. Dispicable performance, when you consider he dived embarrisngly as well, he shouldn't be staring any games soon.

Van Persie - 7. I was wrong!!! I let my previous feelings about Robin's performances cloud my judgement. He wasn't poor, just very isolated. He held the ball up well most of the time, and made some very good runs, but some woeful passing from Denilson meant it came to nothing. Also outstripped Brown and Vidic for pace quite a few times. I've been critical of his performances this season, but one thing I've always said is he is much quicker than he is given credit for. I still don't feel the lone striker roles suits him, but I'm more comfortable about him contributing in the season ahead.

Arshavin - 7. He needs to get fully-fit, because he is unplayable when he slips into gear. Should have had a penalty, scored a world class goal, showed blistering speed to set-up Van Persie, played a brilliant whipped cross into the box that Eboue inexplicably stood and watched (which had Wenger going ballistic). He's absolutely world class, but just not fit. Sort it out Andrej. Would also like to say that you can actually see on his face that he just can't beleive the sheer stupidity of Eboue, Denilson (to a lesser degree) and Diaby at times.

Subs

No real impact.

 

[gstew]

Right, I've watched the game again.

Almunia - 4. He had very little to do in the whole match. Claimed one cross well in the first half, but ultimately cost us the game with a moment of sheer madness.

Sagna - 9. Absolutely destroyed Nani! Started a little slowly, Nani got in one or two nothing crosses from his side in the first 10 minutes or so, but once he warmed to his task he was absolutely imperious thereafter. Criticisms of Sagna's attacking pay yesterday are revisionism at it's best. He put in 5 very good balls into great areas, and the stick-on penalty Arshavin won was as a result of a great cross by Sagna. He bombed up and down the right hand side, unfortunately Eboue was the player he was trying to link with.

Gallas - 9. Made one or two errors in judgement, but the only time Rooney wasn't in his pocket was when Vermaelen picked him up and put him in his. World class at the moment, best defender in the League hands down!

Vermaelen - 8. Zen like in his composure. Ultra calm on the ball, and completely dominated Rooney from start to finish. Also dealt with Vidic from corners and set-pieces very well - they must have had about 10-15 corners/set-pieces (because that was their only threat) and Vidic got the better of him twice. Both times he challenged him hard, but the ball broke to Vidic. Very impressive. If this was his first real test he passed with flying colours.

Clichy - 7. Made some poor decisions defensively, dwelling on the ball once in our box, almost fatally. And still isn't 100% sure where exactly he should be when he comes narrow and the ball is switched to his side. The time when Valencia shot over (with O'Shea overlapping) he made a really poor decision not to get close to Valencia to start with. The best word to describe his offensive game yesterday is atrocious. Gave the ball away far too many times. Owned Valencia one-on-one though, but at this point he is definitely the weak link of the back four.

Song - 7. Made some extremely good tackles and interceptions. Absolutely roasted Giggs for pace on one occasion also. Some good passing under pressure, but also some loose moments where he was caught on the ball or gave it away under pressure. Misses having Fabregas alongside him, he knows he can just give him the ball and relax.

Denilson - 7. Typical Denilson display - some good parts and some bad parts. His passing from deep was fairly accurate, although he still picks the wrong option far too often. Also caught dwelling on the ball once or twice, but did make some clever interceptions to initiate attacks. However, his passing in the final third is just criminally bad, had 5+ chances to play in a teammate and failed every time. It wasn't always easy, but we should expect better from an Arsenal midfielder.

Diaby - 4. Now I've heard lots of people say 'the own goal aside, he played well'. So on re-watching the game I made a conscious effort to really analyse Diaby's performance, and I feel he was a passenger for the practically the whole game. He didn't tackle or make interceptions like Song and Denilson. His passing was absolutely horrible, also showed a lack of effort in his pressing. There were definitely one or two good moments from him, the skewed shot wide, where he showed fantastic balance to weave his way through, and sit Nemanja Vidic on his arse. Also the break down the right where Rooney very nearly lashed out at him. But overall he was a liability who offered very little to us in both offense and attack. He is not a centre midfielder, nor will he ever be.

Eboue - 0. The worst player on the pitch, bar none. Astonishingly bad. This is not through anger or dislike, he simply was incredibly bad. Move, after move, after move broke down because of him. He missed a great chance at 1-0, completely missing the ball at the back post. He also one of the laziest members of our team - guess who wasn't closing down when Giggs had all the time in the world to pick that through ball for Rooney? You gueesed it. Dispicable performance, when you consider he dived embarrisngly as well, he shouldn't be staring any games soon.

Van Persie - 7. I was wrong!!! I let my previous feelings about Robin's performances cloud my judgement. He wasn't poor, just very isolated. He held the ball up well most of the time, and made some very good runs, but some woeful passing from Denilson meant it came to nothing. Also outstripped Brown and Vidic for pace quite a few times. I've been critical of his performances this season, but one thing I've always said is he is much quicker than he is given credit for. I still don't feel the lone striker roles suits him, but I'm more comfortable about him contributing in the season ahead.

Arshavin - 7. He needs to get fully-fit, because he is unplayable when he slips into gear. Should have had a penalty, scored a world class goal, showed blistering speed to set-up Van Persie, played a brilliant whipped cross into the box that Eboue inexplicably stood and watched (which had Wenger going ballistic). He's absolutely world class, but just not fit. Sort it out Andrej. Would also like to say that you can actually see on his face that he just can't beleive the sheer stupidity of Eboue, Denilson (to a lesser degree) and Diaby at times.

Subs

No real impact.

Ricky...glad you watched the game again. Your analysis certainly shows this.

When watched with an analytical mind it is quite obvious that Diaby had a very poor game even without considering the unfathomable own goal. I just don't understand the perception that some have that he was doing a good job. Denilson ran hard and closed down well, but he gave away possession so many times with some awful passing. RVP did a good job. And Song roasted Giggs for pace not just once, but twice.

 

[lee1001]

Lol @ Gallas and Vermaelen only getting a 6.

Both were fantastic and completely nullified the Untied attack.