Mikel Arteta: Fighting Until The End

[14Henry]

If Arsenal finished 14th, and say Palace finished 8th, a player would still easily go to Arsenal. Football changes very quickly, the size of the club/fanbase/history matters a lot.

That being said I do agree with you. Too many players over the last few years have milked this club dry. But that's to do with the idiots running the club signing rubbish players on big money.

I really want see us singing the best U23 talent again (Gabriel/Tierney/Saliba ect) with the odd world class player (Partey). This is the model the club should operate under.

We are not shopping in the same market as Palace. We are shopping in the same market as Sp**s, Leciester, Wolves and United. So finishing as high as possible matters significantly.

It shows the direction the club is going on which influences signings. You have a luxury cruise liner sinking and a budget Stena Line HSS cruising along. You dont jump into the cruise liner because at one time it was amazing.

 

[Harz]

Cut him some slack! He's unbeaten away except for top 6 fixtures!

 

[MikelHadADream]

We are not shopping in the same market as Palace. We are shopping in the same market as Sp**s, Leciester, Wolves and United. So finishing as high as possible matters significantly.

It shows the direction the club is going on which influences signings. You have a luxury cruise liner sinking and a budget Stena Line HSS cruising along. You dont jump into the cruise liner because at one time it was amazing.

Sp**s were massively in for Saliba, he chose Arsenal. United were in for Gabriel, he chose Arsenal. You obviously want to be doing well on pitch and of course that helps, but we will always be a massive pull for players.

The club has every it needs to be successful, the people that have been running it just haven't been up to standard.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

So if no other manager would have us above 15th in the league would you say then Emery was a genius and actually overachieved with this team? All you need to do is day yes or no. Dont swing the argument or introduce other conditions. Simple Yes or No.

Did Emery overachieve? Absolutely not. My answer is no.

You'd of course ask me why I say no.

• Emery had a season of Lacazette in which he was our player of the year, he was absolutely brilliant. Along with Auba doing his usual and scoring 22 league goals.
• Why was this? Well we created chances, why did we create chances? Özil, Mikky and Iwobi were in the team. Iwobi and Mikky actually created 10 big chances each and Kolasinac of all players also created 10 big chances.
• We still had Monreal and Kosc, fairly consistent defenders but nothing amazing.

Emery did what Wenger did, get 70 odd points with pretty much the same players, then after the initial bounce the faults that we saw even in his unbeaten run came through, the players eventually downed tools, showed their true colours and alas, Emery was sacked.

 

[Makingtrax]

Change is needed when the club doesnt progress. If you finish in the top 4 every year but never make headway to winning the league a successful team will make the change in the hope of winning the league.

Would Dortmund sit with the same manager for 10 years finishing 3rd? Nope.

Would Inter sit with the same manager for 10 years finishing 4th? Nope.

We have seen Sp**s sack Poch when he was having them in top 4 consistently and took them to the CL final. Why? Because they reached their peak with him. They wanted someone to win.

Football is about winning trophies. Winning the league. Winning CL. And while you cant win them every year not winning a league title for 15 years and never winning the CL despite being in it every year for 22 years is failure. Especially when you had one of the best teams in world football over a 3-4 year period.

Football hasn’t been about winning trophies for years and years. And that’s where you’re going wrong. It’s about buying them, unless you want to want to wait 140 years for your odds to come up like Leicester did.

Every other EPL Winner has had a squad cost in the top 3, City, United, Chelsea carved up the titles between them. Liverpool moved above Chelsea last year and won. Teams spending 5th and 6th like Liverpool before, Sp**s and Arsenal have much longer odds and haven’t the EPL so far. 7 FA Cups was ludicrously good. Wenger over performed every year until 2015/16.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

@14Henry RE Partey -

You do realise that Thomas Partey had a release clause that not everyone can activate? You don't really ever see the bigger picture.

1. Only a handful of teams could afford that £45M outlay, Chelsea had already spent a ton, Liverpool couldn't afford it, City didn't need him and recently signed Rodri for 60 odd million, United had already signed Matic on for a year and didn't deem him necessary.
2. Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus and PSG could not spend big money. Its a pandemic transfer window. I don't know if you noticed but only the English clubs spent real big money, that's for a good reason.
3. Thomas Partey has many teams that would love to buy him, we were the one side who stumped up the cash.

I really don't see why you keep bringing this up tbh, so many factors going against your points.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Wtf was that first half performance yesterday? What happened to playing the ball on the ground and playing out from the back?

Shocking. I want to believe Arteta but in terms of what actually matters--the performances he's eliciting on the pitch through his coaching--it's absolutely dreadful and there's not a single reason to believe.

Still fuming about that ridiculous decision to start Xhaka over Ceballos against Burnley at home, FFS!!

 

[Harz]

Football hasn’t been about winning trophies for years and years. And that’s where you’re going wrong. It’s about buying them, unless you want to want to wait 140 years for your odds to come up like Leicester did.

Every other EPL Winner has had a squad cost in the top 3, City, United, Chelsea carved up the titles between them. Liverpool moved above Chelsea last year and won. Teams spending 5th and 6th like Liverpool before, Sp**s and Arsenal have much longer odds and haven’t the EPL so far. 7 FA Cups was ludicrously good. Wenger over performed every year until 2015/16.

Suggesting Liverpool bought their title is daft. They turned in a profit in the last 2 of 4 seasons, including their title winning season.

Also, Man Utd is spending much heavier than when they used to when SAF was there and are much worse for it.

 

[14Henry]

@14Henry RE Partey -

You do realise that Thomas Partey had a release clause that not everyone can activate? You don't really ever see the bigger picture.

1. Only a handful of teams could afford that £45M outlay, Chelsea had already spent a ton, Liverpool couldn't afford it, City didn't need him and recently signed Rodri for 60 odd million, United had already signed Matic on for a year and didn't deem him necessary.
2. Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus and PSG could not spend big money. Its a pandemic transfer window. I don't know if you noticed but only the English clubs spent real big money, that's for a good reason.
3. Thomas Partey has many teams that would love to buy him, we were the one side who stumped up the cash.

I really don't see why you keep bringing this up tbh, so many factors going against your points.

If Atletico offered Partey 200k a week on a new deal do you think he still comes here?

 

[Makingtrax]

Suggesting Liverpool bought their title is daft. They turned in a profit in the last 2 of 4 seasons, including their title winning season.

Also, Man Utd is spending much heavier than when they used to when SAF was there and are much worse for it.

The accounting figures are here bro. They out spent Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Sp**s.

 

[OnlyOne]

If Atletico offered Partey 200k a week on a new deal do you think he still comes here?

Yes 100%, Aouar as well. If we were trying to sign then now in January then definitely not.

 

[Harz]

The accounting figures are here bro. They out spent Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton and Sp**s.

I'm talking about net expenditure, not aggregate expenditure. After all, their key player Coutinho left but they've handled it much better than we did when Fabregas or RvP left -- it's just superior management.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

If Atletico offered Partey 200k a week on a new deal do you think he still comes here?

Obviously because its more money They were offering him 140k a week, but the tax rate in Spain is higher than here for starters.

This is a man who came from a very poor family background in Ghana in a family of 8. He is 27 years old, probably has 5 or 6 years left earning at the very highest level. It was in his best interests to join Arsenal and he also wanted to be part of a project that at the time was looking excellent.

You cannot say that Partey joined us to make 200k a week so now he won't be good. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at here, what point are you trying to make?

Would you have preferred us to sign an inferior player on 20k a week? Honestly the ****e you come out with.

 

[MikelHadADream]

If Atletico offered Partey 200k a week on a new deal do you think he still comes here?

Probably, Arsenal are have a much bigger fan base around the world than Atletico, especially in Africa. Footballers are a brand now, they want exposure to as many people as possible to sell their brand.

 

[Maybe]

Because finishing 7th and finishing 14th have huge differences going forward. If you dont see that and understand that then I cant say much more.

We need quality players. Do you believe that a player is more likely to come to us having finished 7th or 14th?

The player is more likely to come to us when we can pay him more than he deserves, not because we finished 7th instead of 14th.
If we can win the EL, which is not impossible, our chances to get better players without overpaying their salaries will be higher. 7th place could mean something to you, but to a new French kid it means absolutely nothing, he just wants to play and earn money.

You say we need more quality players, good stuff, but for every investment, we will have another failed investment, this is a common thing in football.
You simply persist with the idea that we are still a top club, where we can sign players we want just like that. There is a reason why our targets were Willian, Mari, Luiz and Cedric. What do you expect really, that we will sell all the deadwood and we will buy top players? That's a joke, and it won't happen, which leaves you with 2 options:
1.) Bin the underperforming seniors and develop new cheap young players
2.) Keep using underperforming seniors and lose younger players.
Don't get fooled that there is a third option, there simply isn't.
For the first option, you can be 7th or 14th, won't make a difference. Yeah, better to be 7th, but our focus should not be on that at all.

Some of you guys want to look smart here by saying we should avoid youngsters and buy quality players. That's dumb because it's unrealistic. We have no value in our team to generate funds for something like that. You basically need to develop a couple of players, sell them for more money and increase the squad value. Our squad value goes down every year the way we do business atm, with the exception of our young players, which basically proves my point

 

[14Henry]

Obviously because its more money They were offering him 140k a week, but the tax rate in Spain is higher than here for starters.

This is a man who came from a very poor family background in Ghana in a family of 8. He is 27 years old, probably has 5 or 6 years left earning at the very highest level. It was in his best interests to join Arsenal and he also wanted to be part of a project that at the time was looking excellent.

You cannot say that Partey joined us to make 200k a week so now he won't be good. I'm not even sure what you're trying to get at here, what point are you trying to make?

Would you have preferred us to sign an inferior player on 20k a week? Honestly the ****e you come out with.

Your missing my point but that's nothing new. You probably need more sleep giving your 4am runs and 5am breakfasts.

If a player is only coming to Arsenal for money and for no sporting reason then they are not the type of character we need in order to win titles.

If a player is willing to step down a level to earn more money that doesnt exactly scream ambition and determination to be the best or represent the best.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Did someone actually say Liverpool bought their title

In Klopps first season Liverpool made a profit of £5M buying and selling players, they reached CL football.

In Klopps second season Liverpool made a profit of £20M across the summer and winter windows. They reached a CL final but stayed around the same point total in CL places. (without Alisson and Fabinho at this point).

In Klopps third season they spent £125M (Alisson, Fabinho and Keita, but Keita doesn't get used at all). Finished on a stupidly high point total AND won the CL.

And last season Liverpool made another profit of £25M and won the premier league title.


Buying a title would be City or United (attempting to) spending over a billion pounds each. Like **** did Liverpool buy their title ffs, embarrassing opinion whoever thinks that.

 

[Trilly]

Nobody’s asking for the young players to save our season or all be thrown in at once, we just want to see Mikel give them a look in where there’s a genuine niche their skill set could address. Try something different other than like for like swapping Laca for Eddie or rotating Ceballos, Elneny and Xhaka but keeping the same shape.

Azeez for 20 minutes off the bench in a game we’re struggling to progress the ball from deep. ESR for half an hour when we need someone to get the ball on the half turn and drive into the box. Willock and AMN in midfield when we need more dynamism and physicality to disrupt opponents with movement and pressing, Balogun when we need hold up play and power through the centre. Mix it up.

This is it, literally agreed with every word especially considering Arteta seems to be very methodoical and has specific roles and responsibilities for every player on the pitch.

Is Nelson a better player than Willian? Probably not but Arteta has boiled down our right winger to somebody who tracks back, plays simple passes and creates the half yard to whip in crosses. Nelson ticks of all of those boxes so why is Willian the first name on the team sheet?

I still think Bellerin is a better RB than AMN but Arteta wants his RB to come infield and play as a midfielder so why is AMN not being used more often? Similar arguments all over the pitch, it's very annoying.

 

[14Henry]

The player is more likely to come to us when we can pay him more than he deserves, not because we finished 7th instead of 14th.
If we can win the EL, which is not impossible, our chances to get better players without overpaying their salaries will be higher. 7th place could mean something to you, but to a new French kid it means absolutely nothing, he just wants to play and earn money.

You say we need more quality players, good stuff, but for every investment, we will have another failed investment, this is a common thing in football.
You simply persist with the idea that we are still a top club, where we can sign players we want just like that. There is a reason why our targets were Willian, Mari, Luiz and Cedric. What do you expect really, that we will sell all the deadwood and we will buy top players? That's a joke, and it won't happen, which leaves you with 2 options:
1.) Bin the underperforming seniors and develop new cheap young players
2.) Keep using underperforming seniors and lose younger players.
Don't get fooled that there is a third option, there simply isn't.
For the first option, you can be 7th or 14th, won't make a difference. Yeah, better to be 7th, but our focus should not be on that at all.

Some of you guys want to look smart here by saying we should avoid youngsters and buy quality players. That's dumb because it's unrealistic. We have no value in our team to generate funds for something like that. You basically need to develop a couple of players, sell them for more money and increase the squad value. Our squad value goes down every year the way we do business atm, with the exception of our young players, which basically proves my point

I never once said we should buy youth. I actually said maybe it's time we went with that model of being a stepping stone for the bigger clubs. A Liepzig. And Ajax. Something like that but then I see how we as a club handle young players and I think. We dont have the infrastructure nor leadership to go that route.

 

[Makingtrax]

I'm talking about net expenditure, not aggregate expenditure. After all, their key player Coutinho left but they've handled it much better than we did when Fabregas or RvP left -- it's just superior management.

This is their total investment in the squad over multiple net spends and owner investment.