Philippe Coutinho

[Sebastes]

Our need:
PL-ready experienced attacker who can make a difference NOW but cheap.
(Stop bringing up kids like szoboszlai, we have the youngsters with potential already at the club)
Coutinho/Willian types are what we need, be realistic and stop living in dream world scenarios where we buy like chelsea, we are NOT an oil club, support someone else if you cannot deal with that...

Depay, then! Has PL experience, scores goals and assists no matter which attacking position he’s played - a goal contribution every 108 min throughout his career and 1 every 102 mins at Lyon (last 4 years).

26 years old, 1 year left on his contract and Lyon has no European competition next season. Coming off an ACL injury is a potential risk, but would much rather sign him than Coutinho/Willian.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Now I know you’re trolling! Guaranteed Star quality? The club that own him are desperate to get rid of him, the club he’s on loan at want nothing to do with him. It’s not 2014 anymore, no one gives a **** about Coutinho, his stock has fallen out his arse at this point in his career. We’re only taking him because we’re skint and his agent seems to have the club by the bollocks.

Di Maria is a prime example of why some moves to teams just dont work. Doesnt change that the player is talented.

If coutinho produces numbers like his first season for Barca and last season for Bayern we are laughing.

Not sure why you're so against it, like I said the other day I feel like the majority slated Coutinho in his liverpool days and said he was overrated. And they just don't fancy going back on their word.

I mean people are welcome to not want the transfer or dislike it but to say Coutinho is terrible is a real ****ing dumb comment.

 

[Sebastes]

Read that he banked like 6 M from Luiz one year deal.

I‘ve read that the moon landing in’69, WC in Sweden ‘58 and the Holocaust didn’t happen. Doesn’t make it true, you know. Should read up a little on this fake news phenomena

 

[El Duderino]

How much is one year of Coutinho going to cost us?

Problem is that if you take his 8m loan fee + around 8 milion in wages (depending on how much Barca decides to pay, I've read he's on 13m+ euro a year), + what we pay for Özil and it's really tough to justify that over spending in other areas of the pitch.

I much rather invest that money in Aubameyang and a better central defender and a central midfielder.

He's a luxury player, one I think people underated a bit here, but still a luxury player. We already have one of those who's spending his free time in Turkey because he's not starting any more games for us.

 

[wolfkidultman]

Yep... If Ajax, Monaco and Dortmund could why we cannot? This year are very good young players available. I mean... We can spend 100M and sell players to reduce that quantity.

Partey, Buendia and Gabriel makes 100M... Sell Douzy, Torreira, Kola, Papa and you have 20 M. If you want more money then start selling other players.

 

[Enz__]

Problem is that if you take his 8m loan fee + around 8 milion in wages (depending on how much Barca decides to pay, I've read he's on 13m+ euro a year), + what we pay for Özil and it's really tough to justify that over spending in other areas of the pitch.

I much rather invest that money in Aubameyang and a better central defender and a central midfielder.

He's a luxury player, one I think people underated a bit here, but still a luxury player. We already have one of those who's spending his free time in Turkey because he's not starting any more games for us.

You would hope though that unlike our useless waste of money and space he still has the hunger to play and to succeed. At least the fact that he seems open to going out on loan or being sold shows he's not completely given up, he could easily sit on his arse at barca with that contract and just take a big holiday like ours has done, but he doesn't seem to be wanting to do that just yet which could be good for us maybe? I don't know, but if the option is no attacking player at all or just Coutinho i'd rather have him than no one. Though i am not against just throwing ESR in there, big believer in him.

For what it's worth i don't think getting him will affect our moves in the other areas of the pitch, though i think it would probably mean no other am coming in.

 

[El Duderino]

You would hope though that unlike our useless waste of money and space he still has the hunger to play and to succeed. At least the fact that he seems open to going out on loan or being sold shows he's not completely given up, he could easily sit on his arse at barca with that contract and just take a big holiday like ours has done, but he doesn't seem to be wanting to do that just yet which could be good for us maybe? I don't know, but if the option is no attacking player at all or just Coutinho i'd rather have him than no one. Though i am not against just throwing ESR in there, big believer in him.

For what it's worth i don't think getting him will affect our moves in the other areas of the pitch, though i think it would probably mean no other am coming in.

I don't know, Brazilian players usually tend to lose interest at around this age and I can see him being loaned out back to Brasil at some point now that the Chinese League has a wage cap.

 

[dashsnow17]

Whatever Buendia costs, at least he'd be an asset we can sell and recuperate money from. Coutinho on loan feels like money down the drain, especially given there is no guarantee he'll even play well.

I'm suspect it's just about name recognition. Whether it's Coutinho or someone else, the club will want more than just Auba as a big name. Özil's gone down the pan, Pepe hasn't done it yet, Laca doesn't even play for his national team.

When it's gonna be your 4th consecutive year out of the CL I think they're just trying to find ways to stay relevant. Maybe they worry that if they buy guys like Buendia and they don't work out, Arsenal becomes seen as just a small club who buy small players.

Get Coutinho, prove to people Arsenal is still a big club. It's kinda stupid, but maybe that's how they think. Maybe there's a super league on the horizon and Raul needs to keep the foot in the door.

 

[Dial Square 1886]

I‘ve read that the moon landing in’69, WC in Sweden ‘58 and the Holocaust didn’t happen. Doesn’t make it true, you know. Should read up a little on this fake news phenomena

Thank you.

I had never heard about the Conspiracy 58 before your post made me investigate. Quite interesting.

 

[Trilly]

Problem is that if you take his 8m loan fee + around 8 milion in wages (depending on how much Barca decides to pay, I've read he's on 13m+ euro a year), + what we pay for Özil and it's really tough to justify that over spending in other areas of the pitch.

I much rather invest that money in Aubameyang and a better central defender and a central midfielder.

He's a luxury player, one I think people underated a bit here, but still a luxury player. We already have one of those who's spending his free time in Turkey because he's not starting any more games for us.

The way I see it is, there’s no real order in which you should fix the team.

Think we’ve subconsciously gone for the ‘fix the defence first’ option but really and truly we need a creative midfielder just as bad as we need a defensive mid/CB. I have no issue with spending on a chance creator because to me it’s also priority A if that makes sense.

It would be silly if we spend 17M on Coutinho for a year but if that doesn’t effect the clubs targets then I have no issue with that. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the club understand that buying a 25M asset is a lot more valuable than a one year loan that is a pure expense even if on paper it’s 8M cheaper.

We wouldn’t be doing this if we could sign Buendia or Aurororororor for 30M. I think.

 

[El Duderino]

The way I see it is, there’s no real order in which you should fix the team.

Think we’ve subconsciously gone for the ‘fix the defence first’ option but really and truly we need a creative midfielder just as bad as we need a defensive mid/CB. I have no issue with spending on a chance creator because to me it’s also priority A if that makes sense.

It would be silly if we spend 17M on Coutinho for a year but if that doesn’t effect the clubs targets then I have no issue with that. I’m going to go out on a limb and say that the club understand that buying a 25M asset is a lot more valuable than a one year loan that is a pure expense even if on paper it’s 8M cheaper.

We wouldn’t be doing this if we could sign Buendia or Aurororororor for 30M. I think.

I don't think Norwhich are going to ask that "much" for him, tbf. Relegation really puts clubs in bad position when it comes to negotiate.

Grealish would not be quoted at 80m pounds if Villa went down.

 

[14Henry]

I don't think Norwhich are going to ask that "much" for him, tbf. Relegation really puts clubs in bad position when it comes to negotiate.

Grealish would not be quoted at 80m pounds if Villa went down.

Ake 41m kind of shows otherwise. Ake has played more and City dont need to negotiate but the bar has been set with 41m. Norwich may say well if Ake is 41m Buendia is 30m. Ideally if we could get him for 20m and send them someone on loan it would be much better than dropping 17m on Coutinho.

 

[El Duderino]

Ake 41m kind of shows otherwise. Ake has played more and City dont need to negotiate but the bar has been set with 41m. Norwich may say well if Ake is 41m Buendia is 30m. Ideally if we could get him for 20m and send them someone on loan it would be much better than dropping 17m on Coutinho.

Ake deal was strange because United was interested and Chelsea had first refusal, so City just paid up.

Don't think there are a lot of suitors for Buendia as of yet.

 

[say yes]

Don’t really understand why Mesut’s fanboys are so upset about this? He’s massively overperformed Özil for years now, and apparently we’re not allowed to criticise a player’s salary..

 

[Toby]

Don't know how I came out from that unscathed... maybe people didn't realize I was serious about it being worrysome because I ****post too often?

Or maybe @Toby Andrl was the Jupiter to my planet earth, a bigger and better poster taking the bullets for me.

Don't sell yourself under value.

 

[wolfkidultman]

The overrating of Buendia on here is something else. He’s a player who if you took the time to watch him, you’d realise was closer to the likes of Kovacic or even our very own Ceballos in style. Watch how Kovacic was deployed at Inter Milan or Real Madrid and you’ll see exactly what I mean. Yes, he has impressive statistics in terms of chances created but let’s contextualise that. He was playing in a team set up to play on the counter who were more often than not toothless when given the opportunity (nod to his lack of goals).

In inviting pressure and being extremely bad at dealing with it, teams opened up against them and were willing to concede chances to them. High profile cases of this were the hime games against Chelsea and Man City where they managed to capitalise on these opportunities but as morale dropped, so did the goals.

They have wasted a lot of opportunities since then, primarily due to horrendous finishing but a considerable amount of these chances have only been created as a result of teams making the conscious decision to open up against them and Buendia, as well as your Cantwell, etc. have inflated stats as a result. For example - I’d back Ceballos to put up similar numbers of assists or chances created if he played in Norwich’s place.

You’ll also see exactly why he won’t provide what we lack. The reason we aren’t linked with him is because we still appear to be in negotiations with Ceballos who plays that middle man role in a midfield three, as does Partey - who I must stress is not the type of defensive midfielder that many seem to want him to be. He’s also the middle man of a midfield three. Similar to to Essien in a lot of ways but a lot more technical and offering more going forward as a result.

I can’t see how Ceballos and/or Partey as well as Busndia go any way to solving our creativity problems.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

The overrating of Buendia on here is something else. He’s a player who if you took the time to watch him, you’d realise was closer to the likes of Kovacic or even our very own Ceballos in style. Watch how Kovacic was deployed at Inter Milan or Real Madrid and you’ll see exactly what I mean. Yes, he has impressive statistics in terms of chances created but let’s contextualise that. He was playing in a team set up to play on the counter who were more often than not toothless when given the opportunity (nod to his lack of goals).

In inviting pressure and being extremely bad at dealing with it, teams opened up against them and were willing to concede chances to them. High profile cases of this were the hime games against Chelsea and Man City where they managed to capitalise on these opportunities but as morale dropped, so did the goals.

They have wasted a lot of opportunities since then, primarily due to horrendous finishing but a considerable amount of these chances have only been created as a result of teams making the conscious decision to open up against them and Buendia, as well as your Cantwell, etc. have inflated stats as a result. For example - I’d back Ceballos to put up similar numbers of assists or chances created if he played in Norwich’s place.

You’ll also see exactly why he won’t provide what we lack. The reason we aren’t linked with him is because we still appear to be in negotiations with Ceballos who plays that middle man role in a midfield three, as does Partey - who I must stress is not the type of defensive midfielder that many seem to want him to be. He’s also the middle man of a midfield three. Similar to to Essien in a lot of ways but a lot more technical and offering more going forward as a result.

I can’t see how Ceballos and/or Partey as well as Busndia go any way to solving our creativity problems.

Ceballos or Xhaka would work as the DLP. Partey the engine and then we would need some final third magic hence the links to Coutinho. Ceballos does a good defensive job so paired with Partey it would be nice.

The loan fee for Coutinho seems set at £8M and the wages at 120k a week for a season is another £5.7M. So overall taking him for a season would cost £14M and with Coutinho, even if its against poorer opposition you are guaranteed goals and assists from midfield.

@14Henry With Buendia you aren't guaranteed anything. You'd pay between 20-30M to be potentially stuck with the guy when signed.

People who are clammouring for fairly average creative players for 15-30M need to ask themselves this...

Next season Özil is gone. £18.2M a year completely freed up. If we got Coutinho for a year at 15m including wages and he doesnt work its fine. Next year you go big for a proper creative player at 45M+ and properly replace Mesut. Now surely that's better than buying a 50/50 player outright to potentially be stuck with him.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Don’t really understand why Mesut’s fanboys are so upset about this? He’s massively overperformed Özil for years now, and apparently we’re not allowed to criticise a player’s salary..

Ate we pen-paling next month or isnit just pure split up on of AM most iconic friendship?

 

[14Henry]

Ceballos or Xhaka would work as the DLP. Partey the engine and then we would need some final third magic hence the links to Coutinho. Ceballos does a good defensive job so paired with Partey it would be nice.

The loan fee for Coutinho seems set at £8M and the wages at 120k a week for a season is another £5.7M. So overall taking him for a season would cost £14M and with Coutinho, even if its against poorer opposition you are guaranteed goals and assists from midfield.

@14Henry With Buendia you aren't guaranteed anything. You'd pay between 20-30M to be potentially stuck with the guy when signed.

People who are clammouring for fairly average creative players for 15-30M need to ask themselves this...

Next season Özil is gone. £18.2M a year completely freed up. If we got Coutinho for a year at 15m including wages and he doesnt work its fine. Next year you go big for a proper creative player at 45M+ and properly replace Mesut. Now surely that's better than buying a 50/50 player outright to potentially be stuck with him.

I disagree. Every signing whether it be on loan or permanent has no guarantees. With Buendia you are getting one of 3 things.

-a player who steps up and proves hes a very good ACM
- He does a job but isnt elite level so you have a decent squad player on moderate wages.
- he doesnt fit and you sell him a year or two later.

The worst case of the above is you've bought him for say 20m and sold him for 10m. You've lost 10m but have had some service out of him.

With Coutinho you pay 15m and who knows.

He could be brilliant but if we fail to get top 4 it hasnt been much use. He walks away next year and goes somewhere better.

He plays to a decent level and maybe we want to buy a 29 year old for say 40m. 2 seasons more out of him before a decline.

The Coutinho signing for me is the one you make if you literally have a really good team but just missing one final thing. Buendia is the signing you make if your building something and want some guarantees that your going to see what he can do over a longer period of time. He is only 23 after all.

Personally if its 15m for Coutinho or 20-22m for Buendia I go Buendia. We look at the business Leicester do and think we should be looking at similar. They take the 15-20m risks on Maddison, Soyuncu, Perrerias, Ndidi and we think a year later. God now those players are good and would cost 50-60m. We should be aiming for similar.

 

[bingobob]

Coutinho on paper will cost a lot less than the alternatives. People should read up on amortization.

Clearing Guendouzis fee and wages off the accounts helps with this as well. It gets even better if there is no fee involved and simply a swap with us taking on a percentage of wages for the season.

It's all about how the accounts work.