PL: Arsenal vs Everton | 18/10/08

[TomasCR]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

Good performance in the second half, not that good in the first one though. I don´t know what was Wenger thinking of when giving Song a chance at the right back, had he ever played there before this game?

Nice goal from Nasri, Silvestre did a good job there, the same for Walcott. Glad to see Diaby back, that was a good assist. I´m sure he will get a chance and will play next to Cesc sooner or later.

What pissed me off was that c**t Hibbert or what´s the name of the ****er. He should have been sent off! Good Clichy was there to defend Denilson, there is no better feeling than knowing some player will defend you when there is a need to do it. Great play from Nasri but it was a muscular problem, wasn´t it? If yes, he will need a rest and that´s at least 2 weeks out... Hope I´m wrong.

 

[banduan]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

We have to make it our mission to keep a hold of Cesc, Nasri and Theo. The latter two have been the brightest spots of our season thus far.

I'm pretty satisfied with this performance, though I have to echo the sentiments about our ****e formation and how ****e Song was.

 

[Dennis10]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

I don't recall Nasri taking on players too much since hes arrived.

That's true, but his movement and passing really seem to be at wavelength with most of our offensive players. He's probably the first player in our team I'd put money on making a difference when we face teams that stay back and crowd their territory like Sunderland did in a big way. I'm very confident he'll turn into a player who can be a threat in more ways than both Hleb and Rosicky.

 

[law]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

If Mourinho had made that tactical change at half time everyone on here would be wetting themselves. Alas, it was that idiot who doesnt know anything about football and is trying to ruin our lives so it mustve been by accident, or something. I'd actually question whether or not he realistically knows who Theo Walcott is.

Seriously though, the constant second guessing of everything Arsène gets right makes this place look really desperate.

Don't be stupid. It's very obvious that turning a 1-0 defecit at half time into a 3-1 win is a clear indication of Arsène's inability to change the course of the match.

 

[entropy13]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

If Mourinho had made that tactical change at half time everyone on here would be wetting themselves. Alas, it was that idiot who doesnt know anything about football and is trying to ruin our lives so it mustve been by accident, or something. I'd actually question whether or not he realistically knows who Theo Walcott is.

Seriously though, the constant second guessing of everything Arsène gets right makes this place look really desperate.

Don't be stupid. It's very obvious that turning a 1-0 defecit at half time into a 3-1 win is a clear indication of Arsène's inability to change the course of the match.

Don't be stupid too. It's very obvious that Arsène was nowhere near the stadium during half time to even consider it as an indication of his inability to change the course of the match.

 

[banduan]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

don't be stupid.

don't.

 

[qs]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

Nasri combines elements of Hleb and Rosicky's game - it's not like he's got to be the same as one or the other.

For me, he looks like he's got the potential to be better than both - his passing seems better than Rosicky's, but he seems more incisive than Hleb. He's not fully developed yet, by any means, but I reckon he's got the potential to be better than either.

I'd agree with all that. He has loads to his game. I truly believe he could be Pires quality in a few years. He's still settling in though and you can see he lacks some understanding with the team, especially Clichy. That will come with time and games played together, and when it comes Nasri will be even more effective.

 

[hackajack]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

I think he's been superb, changing leagues, ill for a long period last season playing in a team that hasn't been at its best and still delivering from the get-go.

 

[General]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

@ Asajoseph, Denilson is meant to play a more defensive role in comparison to Cesc so naturally his passes are bound to have less attacking bite. Like I said in another thread, there was a feature on average positions during the game in one of the Sunday prints and Cesc was on an average in an advanced role. As for his so called sideways passing, it was his neat forward pass to Cesc that led to the second goal.

I generally agree with the opinion that he is not what we need in midfield at the moment but nevertheless willing to give credit where it’s due. Defensively, he and Cesc are incapable and this is obviously exacerbated by their diminutive nature. In terms of his general overall performance, he hasn’t done too poorly and his culpability in Everton’s first goal was equally countered by his role in our second goal. Statistical significance did not begin in 2008 and it doesn’t make a good argument to simply dismiss it as irrelevant. Even Chapman in his heyday apparently made use of them.

 

[RockyRocastle]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

First half was really, really bad. Denilson is such an average player and we will be winning nothing with him as first choice midfield. It still amazes me he gets a game. Ramsey is better than him already.

Add to him Song (fair enough out of position) and Eboue and it is no wonder we were so bad. Kolo has been dire for 6+ months aswell. And Silvestre in an Arsenal shirt? All wrong imo.

Second half was much better. Nasri is class. Looking forward to Diaby moving Denilson out of the side aswell, he is 10x the player, although maybe too attacking to play along side Cesc - who also needs to pull his finger out.

That lazy bastard upfront also needs a kick up the arse - if we didnt have three big games coming up id drop him for either Bendtner or Vela.

And was a decent atmosphere for once inside and outside the corporate bowl - more of the same for yid barmy please..

 

[hackajack]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

And was a decent atmosphere for once inside and outside the corporate bowl - more of the same for yid barmy please..

Yeah I thought that as well - the team seemed to give it some in the second half and the crowd responded - most enjoyable half for a while.

 

[banduan]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

btw RVP wasn't that bad and worked his arse off, but missing those chances like he did... they weren't sitters but at least get them on target ffs.

 

[hackajack]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

btw RVP wasn't that bad and worked his arse off, but missing those chances like he did... they weren't sitters but at least get them on target ffs.

I thought he did well since it wasn't going his way (first one he should have banged but he tried to place, second one he tried to bang and should have placed, then the Johnny Wilkinson effort) but he kept plugging away until he did get a goal

 

[regele]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

If Mourinho had made that tactical change at half time everyone on here would be wetting themselves. Alas, it was that idiot who doesnt know anything about football and is trying to ruin our lives so it mustve been by accident, or something. I'd actually question whether or not he realistically knows who Theo Walcott is.

Seriously though, the constant second guessing of everything Arsène gets right makes this place look really desperate.

Don't be stupid. It's very obvious that turning a 1-0 defecit at half time into a 3-1 win is a clear indication of Arsène's inability to change the course of the match.

Poor old Arsène, always being second guessed by the bad people over at Arsenal-Mania

The point that most people here try to make and you two are failing to pick up is that he shouldn't have had to make a substitution for the game to work in the first place, he should have just started with Eboue at RB and Theo in the middle, as dictated by common sense really, instead of playing Song at RM who's never played there before. The second part of the argument was that he wouldn't have made any substitution at half time, had Toure not gotten injured, which judging by Arsène's track record with subs is probably true.

There's no point in bringing up Mourinho, because Arsène doesn't use the subs as he does, he uses them as a last resort; but if you do that, better get your starting lineup right.

 

[kamikaze80]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

wenger didnt want to start theo after the internationals and with a CL match coming up. it would be 4 matches in 10 days for the kid. why cant people understand this?

that said, the obvious thing to do wouldve seemed to be to start eboue at RB, song at CM and denilson at RM. but what do i know - lets stick a guy with no pace and even less stamina at RB. nevermind that he's never played there before (though he played a little LB back in the day in france). giving credit to wenger for the substitution would be giving him credit for realising the blatantly obvious.

 

[sabret00the]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

if wenger isn't careful, fans will start wishing death upon eboue.

 

[asajoseph]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

General,

I have no doubt that statistics have been used, and certainly misused by managers and pundits many, many times over the decades. But, without a proper understanding of what those numbers are telling you, and by default what they're not telling you, they aren't worth much more than the ink and paper they're printed on.

'Passes', and 'successful passes' say absolutely nothing about the quality of these passes, and I'm sure you understand this - this may sound airy-fairy, but you actually need to see those passes with your own eyes to judge this, as no amount of hyper-advanced video technology is ever going to provide empirical data that can make sense of these numbers, and cover every potential nuance. I'd contend that you should go back and look at the games Denilson plays in, observe for yourself. Of course, unless we sit down in a dark room and watch these things together (and even if we did), there's a good chance we'd never agree, but I think that over the course of the season either he'll improve, or these facts will make themselves undeniably apparent.

I'm not saying that Denilson is an awful passer, by any means, or that he NEVER passes the ball forward - as I've said before, I think he's a tidy player with a lot of potential, and is more than capable of getting it right. It's just that, right now, his passing does not show the sort of invention and technique that he seems to be universally credited with.

As for the specifics, yes, he played a role in the second goal, but it was hardly the instrumental role you're making it out to be. He made a decent pass forward, to a player who'd made a good run and was wide open. He did nothing wrong here, but it's hardly the sort of pass that makes up for such shocking defending for the first goal.

Overall, I think people are rightly disappointed with the start Fabregas has made to the season, and are rightly chastising him for it. On the other hand, I think that some people are still willing to overlook all of Denilson's flaws for the excuse that he's young / inexperienced / not used to playing with Cesc, and are happy with the fact that he's managing to put in mostly steady, if wholly unspectacular performances whilst he hasn't done quite enough yet to shatter the preconceptions that were built up 2 years ago when we all got a little over-excited with him. And, for that reason, I hope that he doesn't have to have too many more Fulham / Everton type games to really shatter his confidence before the manager pulls him out of the team for everyone's benefit.

 

[McIntyre]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

wenger didnt want to start theo after the internationals and with a CL match coming up. it would be 4 matches in 10 days for the kid. why cant people understand this?

I think people can understand Arsène's reasoning behind wanting to give Theo a rest.

But the point is, rest him when we don't have an injury crisis going on. If Eboue is our only decent cover at right back then he should be playing there. Then Theo can get a rest the next week, or the week after that, when we've got a few players back.

As it stands now Theo hasn't had much of a rest anyway and we came perilously close to dropping more points which we simply cannot afford to do. Had Lescott's header not been cleared off the line by Clichy I'm not sure we would've come back from two down.

Yet if we'd started with the strongest team available from the start we might not have been in that situation. We may have got our noses in front and Theo could've been taken off early, then been rested properly when the squad is more healthy.

 

[banduan]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

wenger didnt want to start theo after the internationals and with a CL match coming up. it would be 4 matches in 10 days for the kid. why cant people understand this?

I think people can understand Arsène's reasoning behind wanting to give Theo a rest.

No. I think the Theo sub was spot on- if only forced.

Theo needed to be benched and needed to be rested. If things became dire, he could be brought on, which was what happened. At least he didn't play 90 min.

 

[Anzac]

Re: Arsenal vs Everton - Premier League - 18/10/08

There's nothing to stop you opening a thread about him Anzac, go for it.

But why open a new one when we already have on that fits the bill?

Well, we're trying to create more smaller shorter & specific threads, they're easier to follow- rather than mega threads that tend to wander a bit. You could call it Wenger's substitutions or something.

fair enough........ :wink: