PL: Bolton Wanderers vs Arsenal | 03/12/05

[Gurgen]

Sabre, you're on a steamroller of sense lately. Have you been drinking?

 

[Wenger14]

Agree with Sabe, Cesc is the least of our worries.

 

[mrsvanpersie]

Look, tearing strips of each other wont resolve anything - we cant go back in time to sort out the game, and we cant whine about which players are sh*t, out of form, etc.....at the end of the day, it isnt like Arsène sets the starting line up, subs, etc. in accordance with us, is it? Lets get rid of the bad vibes in here - i'll admit - i was feeling like this yesterday, but we gotta look to the future - what happened, happened.end of.

 

[James]

:shock:

Somebody else who actually agrees with sabre.

What's this world coming to

 

[Wenger14]

Sabre, you're on a steamroller of sense lately. Have you been drinking?

 

[kel varnsen]

Hmm.. this was expected..look for more of the same vs Newcastle and Chelsea..as usual our midfield will be bypassed and shoved out of the way by more experienced stronger physical players. I cant remember a game this season in the Premiership in which our central midfield looked dominant.

what is your definition of 'dominated'? for example, bolton couldn't string more than 4-5 passes together. they hoofed the ball up front non stop. i'd hardly call that being dominated in midfield. problem is, gilberto's passing isn't quick enough. takes too many touches on the ball and not enough pace on the ball. that way he lets himself be closed down by the other team. quick passing is the key to winning these matches. quick and accurate passing and the other team won't have time to close us down.

our problem is not a lack of physical strength, but lack of movement off the ball and inaccurate and sloppy passing. gilberto needs to be replaced by someone who gets more involved, both offensively and defensively, and can pass the ball.

 

[KingReyes]

:shock:

Somebody else who actually agrees with sabre.

What's this world coming to

Tell me about, well said Sabre.

If there has been one player that we can count on its been Cesc. For an 18 year old who's still physicaly growing he's done well enough.

Its players like Gilberto, Pires, Freddie, Kolo and Sol that need to wake their arses up and perform on a regular basis.

 

[brady]

our problem is not a lack of physical strength, but lack of movement off the ball and inaccurate and sloppy passing. gilberto needs to be replaced by someone who gets more involved, both offensively and defensively, and can pass the ball.

hit the nail on the head. the lack of movement - which means less options for the player on the ball. and it is a symptom of lack of desire and confidence. i mean look at gardner flying down the wing for bolton. they all want to make something happen. there's something in what another member here said about the team being different when henry is playing and when he's not. it's like when he's playing every one abdicates responsibility and just backs off and lets him do his thing. well, when he does it (or when the other team allows him to do it), it's great to watch. but when he does not, well it's not a pretty sight.

 

[RockyRocastle]

I havent felt so depressed about an Arsenal performance for a long time.

We were just so bad. We looked weak and that we didnt care.

It was the worst away support from us for a long time aswell, but there was just nothing on the pitch to inspire us. There were a few of us who tried to get some singing going, but for the last 20 minutes I was just slumped in my seat.

There is just so much wrong with us at the minute. I just watched the Juve game, and we are a million miles behind them. Our defence is all over the place and our midfield in non-existent. The brilliance of Henry and VP and our run in a ****e CL group had hidden so many of the problems we have. The goals of Freddie and Pires have made us what we are over the last few years but they are so out of form at the minute.

I think Wenger is slowly losing the plot. Selling Vieira and not replacing him was such a huge mistake and some of his decisons in recent weeks I just cant understand.

And Dennis, the legend that he is is finsihed now. Having him on the bench is just a wasted spot. We have nothing to lose in havnig Quincy or Lupoli on the bench instead of him, they simply cannot do any worse.

 

[Tony Montana]

I'm going to say something no one seems to be capable of saying, let alone see on the field. Cesc Fabregas is NOT first team material. Yes, I said it. He may be the most gifted 18 year old on the planet but he's far from being an Arsenal starter. He provides absolutely nothing to the team besides passes. What on earth is the point of him being in a team if he can't provide anything other than passes? He can't run to recover when upfront, he can't tackle to save his life, he has absolutely zero physical presence, he is slow as a snail, he can't win any ball in the air(case in point.. Bolton's first goal yesterday) etc. All he does is pass the ball. That is all! I ask the question again, what is the point of a central mid-fielder if you can't do any of the above? Even Wenger saw this yesterday when he took Cesc off. The kid is hopeless against strong opposition.

All the above things Cesc lacks were done extremely well by Vieira(ye, I meantioned his name). He recovered all the time and made superb tackles. He had the "baddest" physical presence of any mid fielder out there, won countless headers and controlled the mf week in, week out..even when he was playing like crap. We obviously need another MF player.

Do you know the difference between last seaon's away form and this season's? Cesc for Vieira.

You draw your own conslusions.

Riquelme doesn't do all those things either. Apparantly he's quite lazy it's just that his passing, holding up play and quick thinking make him sick. Technically, he batters Gerrard and Lampard but i'd rather have one of them than Riquelme.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm going to say something no one seems to be capable of saying, let alone see on the field. Cesc Fabregas is NOT first team material. Yes, I said it. He may be the most gifted 18 year old on the planet but he's far from being an Arsenal starter. He provides absolutely nothing to the team besides passes. What on earth is the point of him being in a team if he can't provide anything other than passes? He can't run to recover when upfront, he can't tackle to save his life, he has absolutely zero physical presence, he is slow as a snail, he can't win any ball in the air(case in point.. Bolton's first goal yesterday) etc. All he does is pass the ball. That is all! I ask the question again, what is the point of a central mid-fielder if you can't do any of the above? Even Wenger saw this yesterday when he took Cesc off. The kid is hopeless against strong opposition.

All the above things Cesc lacks were done extremely well by Vieira(ye, I meantioned his name). He recovered all the time and made superb tackles. He had the "baddest" physical presence of any mid fielder out there, won countless headers and controlled the mf week in, week out..even when he was playing like crap. We obviously need another MF player.

Do you know the difference between last seaon's away form and this season's? Cesc for Vieira.

You draw your own conslusions.

in reality you're talking s**t, IMO Cesc bettered Vieira last season and what he lacked then he's improved upon. can't tackle? where have you been for the last 5 games because it's in these games that he's shown his real ability to tackle, he's worked hard, i admit he's better at the commited (sliding) tackle than standing up but bar that he's a good player and currently our best midfield, you cannot expect an 18 year old to do the job of four people and when he can't get upset as was stated, Wenger took off everyone that played a half decent game, so let's not hold that up as testement to anything, we were just s***e.

No, you are full of ****. And based on your history here, I have every right to say so. Once you pick a side i.e a player, you lose all links with reality. I'll state it again like I see it..Cesc is not good enough. You can scew the figures like you wish but the record speaks for itself. Cesc cannot replace Vieira. I will not go into individual player stats 'cos they are as misleading as most PR stuff out there. What I have for you is the record this season and that of last

This stage last seaon (away games) P8 W5 D2 L1. pts 16
This season..............(away games) P7 W1 D2 L4. pts 5

Do you know the difference between this season and last? One MF player.
The MF is clearly weak and lacks physical presence. Cesc cannot provide this and we will continue to lose and perform badly against strong opposition. We've been embarasses countless times in the MF this season(Boro, Scums, Bolton, West Ham) and it is bound to continue until a replacement is found for Vieira or 2-3yrs time when Cesc becomes a man.

moses - i agree with,cesc is not ready for first team action. Wenger is a idiot for selling Vieria. Just his presence sent shivers down the oponents back. Cesc is ok, but slow. Vieira has it all.

Another thing people should realize we might be on downfall thanks to Wenger. 8)

 

[Sammer]

I'm going to say something no one seems to be capable of saying, let alone see on the field. Cesc Fabregas is NOT first team material. Yes, I said it. He may be the most gifted 18 year old on the planet but he's far from being an Arsenal starter. He provides absolutely nothing to the team besides passes. What on earth is the point of him being in a team if he can't provide anything other than passes? He can't run to recover when upfront, he can't tackle to save his life, he has absolutely zero physical presence, he is slow as a snail, he can't win any ball in the air(case in point.. Bolton's first goal yesterday) etc. All he does is pass the ball. That is all! I ask the question again, what is the point of a central mid-fielder if you can't do any of the above? Even Wenger saw this yesterday when he took Cesc off. The kid is hopeless against strong opposition.

All the above things Cesc lacks were done extremely well by Vieira(ye, I meantioned his name). He recovered all the time and made superb tackles. He had the "baddest" physical presence of any mid fielder out there, won countless headers and controlled the mf week in, week out..even when he was playing like crap. We obviously need another MF player.

Do you know the difference between last seaon's away form and this season's? Cesc for Vieira.

You draw your own conslusions.

in reality you're talking s**t, IMO Cesc bettered Vieira last season and what he lacked then he's improved upon. can't tackle? where have you been for the last 5 games because it's in these games that he's shown his real ability to tackle, he's worked hard, i admit he's better at the commited (sliding) tackle than standing up but bar that he's a good player and currently our best midfield, you cannot expect an 18 year old to do the job of four people and when he can't get upset as was stated, Wenger took off everyone that played a half decent game, so let's not hold that up as testement to anything, we were just s***e.

No, you are full of ****. And based on your history here, I have every right to say so. Once you pick a side i.e a player, you lose all links with reality. I'll state it again like I see it..Cesc is not good enough. You can scew the figures like you wish but the record speaks for itself. Cesc cannot replace Vieira. I will not go into individual player stats 'cos they are as misleading as most PR stuff out there. What I have for you is the record this season and that of last

This stage last seaon (away games) P8 W5 D2 L1. pts 16
This season..............(away games) P7 W1 D2 L4. pts 5

Do you know the difference between this season and last? One MF player.
The MF is clearly weak and lacks physical presence. Cesc cannot provide this and we will continue to lose and perform badly against strong opposition. We've been embarasses countless times in the MF this season(Boro, Scums, Bolton, West Ham) and it is bound to continue until a replacement is found for Vieira or 2-3yrs time when Cesc becomes a man.

moses - i agree with,cesc is not ready for first team action. Wenger is a idiot for selling Vieira. Just his presence sent shivers down the oponents back. Cesc is ok, but slow. Vieira has it all.

Another thing people should realize we might be on downfall thanks to Wenger. 8)

"Shadow Moses", "sabret00the" and "Senderos05".....this combination is lethal.

What is this world coming to :shock:

 

[1970*Gooner]

Honestly, you can talk about people being stronger physically . I take it with a pinch of salt . If you have a bit of bottle and courage you can put up a fight wiht anyon on a soccer field. Savage is tiny , what abouth the job Neville did on Vieira. When you lose the ball you got to close them down. GIlberto is not a small man . Unfortunately he is playing like one .

Exactly, even if you're small, you get in there and kick the ****ers. Unfortunately our players simply don't seem to have the bottle.

I agree with you there, we desperately need some oil for the engine room by that I mean we need some balls, aggression some thing as we are playing like a load of friggin fairies (no disrespect to any fairies that read this forum) Fight for the bloody ball, we need some Ray P clones. Its embarrassing to see some of the half assed tackles we are putting in. For F**k sake get stuck in other teams are walking all over us.


:x

 

[hleb]

Cesc has been ok. But what does that tell you about our team. An 18 year old is currently our best MF player. For a club like our that IS disgraceful. Oh, by the way. Cesc is not good enough to be playing consistently for us either. Maybe in 2-3 years, but not now.

 

[Shadow Moses]

Glad to see people agree that Cesc isn't ready yet. Some might try to place the blame on other older players such as Gilberto, Campbell, Pires etc, but like I said earlier, the only difference in this year's team is Cesc playing for Vieira.

Also, do you guys remember last season, when Gilberto got injured and Cesc stepped in for him to partner Vieira? Do you guys remember how badly we played through out that period? We had countless posts on this forum saying the Cesc - Vieira pairing wasn't working. Gilberto then came back into the team and we went on an amazing run towards the end of the season, before losing to Birmingham on the last day. Cesc is back and we are having an amazing away run

 

[hleb]

He's playing against experienced MEN! of course the kid is getting dominated. It doesnt help that Gilberto has been woeful this season. I feel bad for him, so much responsebilities on such young shoulders. IMO we need to replace Gil and Pires next season.

 

[James]

It was the worst away support from us for a long time aswell, but there was just nothing on the pitch to inspire us. There were a few of us who tried to get some singing going, but for the last 20 minutes I was just slumped in my seat.

Bollocks weren't it. It always seems to be the way when we play at the Reebok.

I think there was about 4 of us singing 'Arsène Wengers Red n White Army' for about 15 minutes during the second half, and nobody would join in. Knew it'd be like it from the kick off. The same old songs over and over again.

 

[sabret00the]

"Shadow Moses", "sabret00the" and "Senderos05".....this combination is lethal.

What is this world coming to :shock:

i really resent being categorised with those two, please don't in future.

 

[Kum_Arsenal]

how can arsenal play so badly after a few good games. :shock:

lot of vulnerabilities in the back. lack of commitment and weak mentally and physically.

i've seen how badly arsenal can play.

i don't want to see this kind of performance ever.

bad result for the gunners.

 

[marco]

Shadow Moses, you have a very short term memory.
think back to the start of last season! when we won 7 out of first 8 games/
Who played then??

Gilberto and fabregas.
Who played lampard and makele of the pitch vs chelsea?
flamini and fabregas.

There are lot more worrying things than fabregas at the moment.
Yeah we do miss vieira, but he wanted to go.
For ****s sake his agent offered him to Man Utd, which shows he wanted out.

Gilberto has been poor recently.
its world cup year and he doesnt wanna get injured! you can tell!
Freddy has come out and said we need to be committed etc, he is a good one to talk.
he and pires were so easily intimated on saturday it was unbelivable.