PL: Crystal Palace vs Arsenal | 6/11/04

[Spike]

As there isn't already a thread on this topic, bar the predictions one.

Well, this is a game we'll be looking to win easily, and hopefully used to gain some confidence again since the defeat. We need that feeling of unbeatableness in us before we go into matches again.

Well here's my line-up:
------------Lehmann------------

---Lauren Toure Cygan Cole---

Ljungberg Vieira Flamini Reyes

---------v.Persie Henry--------

 

[sabret00the]

yeah i've got with that, it seems that Cesc needs a rest and Flamini needs to show his worth, we're getting people overestimating him, swearing aobut his greatness without really witnessing his ability.

saying that i know it won't happen but not for lack of ability sake but i feel Senderos should start ahead of Cygan, he's been captaining the reserves for a while now and Toure plays best when being lead, Cygan doesn't do that so i feel Senderos is the best to fill Sol's boots.

won't happen though.

=====================
PLAYERS OUT
=====================
Edu (calf)
Silva (back)
Pennant (hamstring)
Campbell (hamstring)

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

yeah i've got with that, it seems that Cesc needs a rest and Flamini needs to show his worth, we're getting people overestimating him, swearing aobut his greatness without really witnessing his ability.

Sabret a blind bat with no hearing can be the only thing who doesn't know Flamini's worth because for a football fan it's IMPOSSIBLE not to see this guys efforts last season and at Arsenal this season. It's so in your face it's impossible for it to go unnoticed.

I can't believe you'd question people on this because no one would comment on his worth otherwise. Either you're on the wind up or jumping to conclusions on people's views.

It is somewhat disrespectful and arrogant to think just because you haven't seen him play, others are just working from a knee jerk reaction.

I've seen him play and he is brilliant and I don't think others would comment on it otherwise.

Speak for yourself Sabret and only yourself because I and others have seen him play and he is quality.

 

[flotz]

i say 5-1 ( henry 3 v.persie 1 and ljungberg 1) (lehmann own goal)

 

[sabret00the]

yeah i've got with that, it seems that Cesc needs a rest and Flamini needs to show his worth, we're getting people overestimating him, swearing aobut his greatness without really witnessing his ability.

Sabret a blind bat with no hearing can be the only thing who doesn't know Flamini's worth because for a football fan it's IMPOSSIBLE not to see this guys efforts last season and at Arsenal this season. It's so in your face it's impossible for it to go unnoticed.

I can't believe you'd question people on this because no one would comment on his worth otherwise. Either you're on the wind up or jumping to conclusions on people's views.

It is somewhat disrespectful and arrogant to think just because you haven't seen him play, others are just working from a knee jerk reaction.

I've seen him play and he is brilliant and I don't think others would comment on it otherwise.

Speak for yourself Sabret and only yourself because I and others have seen him play and he is quality.

a prime example and i'll say nothing bar this: Diego Forlan

if you really need me to explain that then just ask.

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

a prime example and i'll say nothing bar this: Diego Forlan

if you really need me to explain that then just ask.

How the hell do you justify putting Flamini in the same box as Forlan is illogical in every sense. Two totally different players, with different experience and of different ages as well.

Alex Ferguson is NOT Arsène Wenger.

Still that is a null point because you are STILL applying your own failings on others who have seen Flamini play. You cannot accept that.

Diego Forlan is crap and you really put yourself in further doo doo by comparing Forlan and Flamini, honestly you do.

Totally different world.

Flamini has proved at Arsenal already of his capabilities without causing any errors.

Forlan was an over-rated player in the Uruguayan league so how can you compare an over-aged South American in an obscure South American league with a youthful inter-european Frenchman experienced in many competitions 20 year old is madness!!

Two totally different players and you expect that to be your reasoning?

We're back to the case point Sabret, just because you haven't seen Flamini play doesn't mean others haven't and just because you use this age old excuse of "being tested", it doesn't mean that others don't see what you have failed to see.

Don't force your own failings on others.

It is disrespectful.

 

[sabret00the]

i wouldn't say one or two performances at Arsenal is proving yourself and lets not make Arsène infallable all of a sudden didn't he sign Cygan? didn't he sign Jeffers? the fact of the matter is despite whatever you've done elsewhere it doens't count for jack **** till you get here and are able to perform within our tactics and on the back of our training.

no matter what he's done elsewhere and how good he's looked he's not had the chance to prove himself for us despite looking promising when presented with the opportunities he's had, at the same time, it says alot that despite being in a UEFA cup team and getting regular top flight football week-in/week-out he's still behind a 17 year old who's showing major signs of fatigue.

if i said henry needs to show his worth then fair enough, i've merely said flamini needs to play so i can stop reading on the forums that's he's either not worth **** or is the holy grail of the central midfield.

gah change your avatar and then turn into this *shakes head*

 

[Double_H]

i say 3-1 for the Gunners
Reyes ,Henrry and Robin

and an Own Goal from Paddy ops:

..............
worest case scinario

0-1 to Palace

 

[Shomo]

i Hope this time aroud arsenal will win this game to silence the critics who are claiming arsenal are in crisis just because we drew two games.
AND CYGAN PLEASE PLEASE AND PLEASE DON'T EMBARRASED US AGAIN.
and TH14 ready to silence the critics with goals

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

i wouldn't say one or two performances at Arsenal is proving yourself and lets not make Arsène infallable all of a sudden didn't he sign Cygan? didn't he sign Jeffers?

You're still comparing Flamini to unrelatable factors.

Cygan is a good player. Let's not get fickle and plastic and join the bandwagon on this.

Jeffers was a board acquisition because we wanted English players at the club, not a Wenger acquisition. This was highlighted in detail at the time which many miss quite well.

You're still, STILL highlighting performance elsewhere doesn't matter and you STILL don't count Flamini's outings at the club. I've seen Flamini play in a whole host of games at Arsenal. The game against Man City was a full outing.

The problem with you Sabret is, you don't want to accept people have seen this person as a great player. Why don't you accept this? Simply because

a) you don't see talent in him

b) he hasn't played many games for you

Now for myself, I've seen him enough and he has been great. Not only great but amazing. It's idiotic nay foolish to say a player is no longer the player he was at another club. That not only insults the player but it insults football in general. This belief that footballers have to prove themselves highlights one thing and one thing only - your own personal limitations on your view of the game.

Sabret it's simple - YOU, only you don't see quality in Flamini. This doesn't mean you can insult other fans who have basically seen quality in Flamini. Do not, as I said in another post, account your own limitations and prejudices as a fan upon others. Just because you personally feel a player must play regularly does not mean others eye for a player is better.

Some fans only need to see a player once, others numerous games, others want him to score goals - many differnet reasons but Sabret, you're forcing your own views, your own ways of assessment on others. That is yours and your alone as a limitation - no one elses.

You don't like Flamini, you want to see more of him. Your post should be the following :

"I haven't seen Flamini play enough to see how good a player he is, but I respect others who have seen him play and admire him as a player because they obviously see something I don't".

That respects others posters, that highlights your own limitation and that doesn't apply judgement on other people.

the fact of the matter is despite whatever you've done elsewhere it doens't count for jack s**t till you get here and are able to perform within our tactics and on the back of our training.

That's nonsense as well. You're existing in the belief that we're something special and when a player like Flamini comes along who fits like a glove (they do exist in the world) you don't want to accept it AGAIN due to your limitations and your own pejudices on the game.

He's a great player, you don't see that because you have carefully constructed guidelines upon assessing players. Not everyone has that.

I can't believe and more importantly as well, you haven't seen some of Flamini's more deadlier moves this season. Either you don't have a TV and for your benefit alone, not having a TV would be a good excuse if you're an Arsenal fan.

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

no matter what he's done elsewhere and how good he's looked he's not had the chance to prove himself for us despite looking promising when presented with the opportunities he's had, at the same time, it says alot that despite being in a UEFA cup team and getting regular top flight football week-in/week-out he's still behind a 17 year old who's showing major signs of fatigue.

if i said henry needs to show his worth then fair enough, i've merely said flamini needs to play so i can stop reading on the forums that's he's either not worth s**t or is the holy grail of the central midfield.

gah change your avatar and then turn into this *shakes head*

You miss far far too many points.

I think you're expecting far too much from the lad. He's done impressively well, made no errors - that is the key point - when he has played.

It's a key point because we're arsenal, we play at a high level and he has been unphased by the whole ideal.

Oh the UEFA Cup, he only didn't go to the finals as 20 year old central midfielders, well that's what all 20 year old central midfielders do don't they. Maturity in that position - no wonder only Cesc is ahead of him in terms of maturity otherwise Flamini would have been there.

Yeah he needs to play but only within time will he be able to show his worth but you can't jump to conclusions about other peoples conclusion, maybe some people don't present them properly but I'm surprised you haven't seen quality in him because it's so obvious.

 

[Gooner83]

------------Lehmann------------

---Lauren Toure Cygan Cole---

Ljungberg Vieira Cesc Pires

---------Reyes Henry--------



1) Pires needs to start performing and he only plays well on the left.

2) Flamini is clearly not good enough to keep Young Fabregas out of the team... hes also the Champions league choice at the moment.

3) Van Persie maybe will start but i think Wenger should be concentrating on the Henry/Reyes Partnership as this will probably be Bergkamps final year.

When Bergkamp is out of the Team, we need Pires to creative things thats why i think he would start.

Then Give Persie 20 or 30mins up front with Henry.

 

[sabret00the]

i wouldn't say one or two performances at Arsenal is proving yourself and lets not make Arsène infallable all of a sudden didn't he sign Cygan? didn't he sign Jeffers?

You're still comparing Flamini to unrelatable factors.

Cygan is a good player. Let's not get fickle and plastic and join the bandwagon on this.

Jeffers was a board acquisition because we wanted English players at the club, not a Wenger acquisition. This was highlighted in detail at the time which many miss quite well.

You're still, STILL highlighting performance elsewhere doesn't matter and you STILL don't count Flamini's outings at the club. I've seen Flamini play in a whole host of games at Arsenal. The game against Man City was a full outing.

The problem with you Sabret is, you don't want to accept people have seen this person as a great player. Why don't you accept this? Simply because

a) you don't see talent in him

b) he hasn't played many games for you

Now for myself, I've seen him enough and he has been great. Not only great but amazing. It's idiotic nay foolish to say a player is no longer the player he was at another club. That not only insults the player but it insults football in general. This belief that footballers have to prove themselves highlights one thing and one thing only - your own personal limitations on your view of the game.

Sabret it's simple - YOU, only you don't see quality in Flamini. This doesn't mean you can insult other fans who have basically seen quality in Flamini. Do not, as I said in another post, account your own limitations and prejudices as a fan upon others. Just because you personally feel a player must play regularly does not mean others eye for a player is better.

Some fans only need to see a player once, others numerous games, others want him to score goals - many differnet reasons but Sabret, you're forcing your own views, your own ways of assessment on others. That is yours and your alone as a limitation - no one elses.

You don't like Flamini, you want to see more of him. Your post should be the following :

"I haven't seen Flamini play enough to see how good a player he is, but I respect others who have seen him play and admire him as a player because they obviously see something I don't".

That respects others posters, that highlights your own limitation and that doesn't apply judgement on other people.

the fact of the matter is despite whatever you've done elsewhere it doens't count for jack s**t till you get here and are able to perform within our tactics and on the back of our training.

That's nonsense as well. You're existing in the belief that we're something special and when a player like Flamini comes along who fits like a glove (they do exist in the world) you don't want to accept it AGAIN due to your limitations and your own pejudices on the game.

He's a great player, you don't see that because you have carefully constructed guidelines upon assessing players. Not everyone has that.

I can't believe and more importantly as well, you haven't seen some of Flamini's more deadlier moves this season. Either you don't have a TV and for your benefit alone, not having a TV would be a good excuse if you're an Arsenal fan.

damn that was long and very funny, it actually had me laughing, in all of this little debate here i've not actually said what my view of his ability is bar the fact he's not a god with an infallable touch, however when he had his thread of the week i was very sceptical to say the least since then he's shown a huge potential but lets not forget he's only 20, however despite that and his experience he's stuck not being able to displace the unproven Cesc Fabregas, who's yet to get a season in top flight football under the belt, i think Flamini will show not prove but show his worth by the end of the season.

PS. you've never seen me claim to have seen him play pre-arsenal and to say a player is the same anywhere is ludacris.

PPS. just for the record you're arguing with me due to misreading my original post

PPPS. sorry it took me so long to respond to you, i had to find out i weren't getting laid before i could be arsed.

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

I replied to my interpretation of your post. Which is you can't assume lack of credibility in people's posts because you don't have the same perception.

 

[sabret00the]

I replied to my interpretation of your post. Which is you can't assume lack of credibility in people's posts because you don't have the same perception.

ok then just for the record, you're saying he is god? despite being able to force a start on a regular basis he's a god? yes or no? both will end this debate right here.

 

[reggiepaul's alter ego]

No not God, but great.

 

[Jinn]

Match starting soon. Prediction 2-1 Arsenal.

 

[Spike]

4-1 Arsenal.

Henry 2, Persie 1, Reyes 1.

 

[DOls]

i Hope this time aroud arsenal will win this game to silence the critics who are claiming arsenal are in crisis just because we drew two games.
AND CYGAN PLEASE PLEASE AND PLEASE DON'T EMBARRASED US AGAIN.
and TH14 ready to silence the critics with goals

I don't remember anybody saying "please, please ..." to Kolo, Lauren, Edu
for example who scored own goals as well.

I'd say Bergy and Thierry up front
Freddie, Cesc, Patrick and Bobby (or maybe Jose) in the middle
and the usual back.
I just hope we will score a lot and won't concede any.

Come on Arsenal! :clap

 

[sabret00the]

4-1 Arsenal.

Henry 2, Persie 1, Reyes 1.

almost but no;

i'm hoping for this

Henry 1, Persie 2, Reyes 1, Cesc or Cole 1.