PL: Liverpool vs Arsenal | 31/03/07

[fab4girl]

At least the team can start corners properly, despite the heavy loss and the all the negatives, In the first half a coner came in and three yellow shirts jumped up and headed the ball. Shame that the ball went inches high abve the bar. In the second half Rosicky started a good corner and the ball went into "the bull's eye" at the right angle and pace. Gallas scored.

Actually it was fabregas' corner from which Gallas scored.

It was truly Boys against Men and unlike the last few times the Men won. Gilberto was sorely missed, both Cesc and Denilson looked hapless without him, Mascherano and Alonso kept snatching the ball from them and they couldnt do anything.

The defence was really aweful ,what happened? We never looked so vulnerable at the back.

 

[Nutsy]

Well, Probably because, both of our first choice fullbacks has been out for a while, and up against an on form Liverpool, Liverpool midfield worked together very well and Mascherano was one of their key midfielders. but yeah, still can't believe we were down by a Crouch Hattrick ffs.

It was then for once we score from corners, can't seem to remember the last time we scored from set pieces since last night.

 

[Nemesis]

The Bad:

Terrible performance from us. Our much vaunted first choice defence couldnt cope with Peter ****in Crouch! Both Hleb and Rosicky have returned from their injuries in terrible form. We dont have enough depth on the wings, Diaby is NOT a winger. Fabregas needs a long rest. We clearly missed Gilberto last night, our midfield was completely overrun. Awful performance by Baptista. Something needs to be done imo, we lack good off the ball movement and too often our attacking moves reach the opposition box where we pass it around before losing it without troubling the keeper at all.

The Good: Ade has clearly improved his finishing, altho there is still room for improvement. Eboue and Clichy were playing their first match after missing the last couple due to injuries so i suppose a loss in form could be expected. Gallas also has only just returned from injury. My only worry is that our defence will struggle badly when dealing with high balls. We might need a Sol Campbell type.

Personally I think Fab needs to be given a rest, while Rosicky and Hleb need more games to regain match sharpness. Hopefully Wenger can sort something out.

 

[Nemesis]

I also just wanted to add that Hleb is not inconsistent. Hes played consistently well from the tail-end of last season right up to his injury this season. Hlebs just lost his rhythm because of the injury and needs a couple of games to find his form. Same with Tom who was playing MUCH better before he got injured.

 

[stiiphunn]

I think it's partially because he's always trying some impossible things on the pitch.
He always goes for the ultimate pass or the ultimate move.
And because it does not come off we're disappointed. But you can't blame him for trying to make things happen.
It's always better than having someone who passes the ball backwards.

Hleb is a very good player - and I'd say he's one of few that has shown himself to be a big game player against some of the better sides this season. I'd say the one thing holding him back is his lack of willingness to take on more responsibility in the final third. He would rather pass the ball to a player in an impossible position than take on an opportunity himself. Some might call this unselfish, but he really does take it to another level. He'll carry the ball up to 30 yards from goal and then just freeze. The guy just needs to take more gambles and believe in his ability to inflict real damage by himself.

The biggest worry for me today though was not Hleb, it was Cesc. And it has been for a while. Wenger's almost unrelenting insistance on putting the onus on this kid to dictate our play week in week out is really taking its toll. I've never seen him as poor as he was today, and yet it was Diaby - one of our better performers, who got sacrificed when Rosicky came on. Not only did he look weary and burnt out, his attitude was unusually poor. I can't imagine what the reaction would have been by some on here had it been Henry swapping shirts with Gerrard at HALF TIME! It's just not on. Not when you're 2-0 down in a game such magnitude.

As a team we just look shorn of all confidence. To be done 4-1 by what was ultimately a mediocre Liverpool performance for a club like Arsenal beggars belief. Is talent enough? In theory, yes. Arsène is an economist and that how economists think. Everything is driven by models and theory. In the long-term, economists tend to be proven correct but as with all modelling, there are assumptions that do not always hold true. Say for instance, the assumptions that all our youngsters will stick around to become great while we're not even looking like winning things. Will they? We've taken a big gamble but now we need some collateral.

I said in another thread that Hleb has to be more arrogant. As you said in the final third he seems to be a completly different player- a player who does not want to kill the game off.
Thierry is the player he is because he's arrogant on the pitch, same goes for every single player.
Hleb is in a way too nice- and he has to change that.

I think Cesc is mentally exhausted- but I think the same could be said about most of our players.
They aren't under pressure anymore as we're out of every competitions- Gallas even smiled when he scored yesterday.
In a way you can understand the players- but they still have to be professional till the end of the season.

Liverpool wanted to do their best before the PSV game- they had a different motivation and you could see that. Plus they wanted to beat us after conceding so many goals against us in the previous games.

Interesting theory about economy though. But you can't compare economy and football IMO. In economy theories remains theories for a long time. Until the results appear. It's built over many many many years. In football theories are acceptable to an extent, but any game you play is there to remind you that they are just theories and nothing more. Football is much more down to earth than economies. In Wenger's mind, I'm sure that theories are in every single game put under heavy criticism.

 

[Allyboy]

I said before the game to my mate, if Benitez goes Crouch up front on his own then you need to play Senderos. He is the only organiser in our defence and the only one who excels on high balls and crosses. In fairness, had he gone with Bellamy or Kuyt then Phil may have been exposed, but in hindsight he should have rested Gallas or Toure and played Senderos.

What pisses me off is that I mentioned this to my friend again in the concourses and some big grossly fat guy overhead me and started having a go at me for "not knowing that Senderos is total ****". He then claimed HE was better than Phil!

In fairness, the guy proved his point later in the day, as I saw him again as we were driving home. There he was, in his full "athletic prime", slumped against the wall of a kebab house porking his way through a doner!

So there you go guys, the way for us to keep clean sheets isn't to rotate our players depending on our opposition, or to stop crosses in, or to clear them when they do. The way forward is to lump a graduate from the fat basteria on the pitch and let him blubber his to goal! :wink:

 

[Big Poppa]

At least the team can start corners properly, despite the heavy loss and the all the negatives, In the first half a coner came in and three yellow shirts jumped up and headed the ball. Shame that the ball went inches high abve the bar. In the second half Rosicky started a good corner and the ball went into "the bull's eye" at the right angle and pace. Gallas scored.

Actually it was fabregas' corner from which Gallas scored.

It was truly Boys against Men and unlike the last few times the Men won. Gilberto was sorely missed, both Cesc and Denilson looked hapless without him, Mascherano and Alonso kept snatching the ball from them and they couldnt do anything.

The defence was really aweful ,what happened? We never looked so vulnerable at the back.

It was Hleb's corner, headed on by Toure and then 'cocked' by Gallas

 

[Asterix]

To be fair Crouch was very good, and their first goal was a cracker.

It's really worrying though that Adebayor seems to be the only person who even remotely looks like scoring.

Mind you, I tihnk I did see Hleb shoot from 35 yards in the second half. I nearly spilt my beer....

Agree with most posters - the midfield of Cesc and Denilson seemed weird. Why not start with Diaby and Freddie or Tomas, and swap those last two?

 

[patrick42uk]

actually a little disappointed with ade. overall, considering the team performance and the fact he has played competitively in a while, he done ok. but, he pulled to the left a lot and got the ball there ona few occassions. just a little disappointed he chose the safe pass backwards everytime rather than looking to drive at arbeloa.

 

[marco]

We're playing with absolutely no motivation at all. And you can't completely blame the players for it, we have no silverware to play for, and have been in a comfort zone with regards to qualifying for the CL. What does worry me is if we continue to play like this, we'll be scrapping for 4th and our confidence will hit rock bottom. I was hoping we would bounce back from the cup final defeat and have a good run in, to carry that form into next season, ending the season on 75+ points. But now I'm becoming more and more worried that we'll finish the season on a low and carry that form into next season, which is very likely as our confidence on a whole is on a real low, and I can't see it getting any better by May. We've got some real tough away fixtures coming up, and Chelsea and Bolton at home, scrapping for 4th is a very real possibility.

You say you dont blame the players for not playing with any motivation yesterday but what about the 3,000 among us that went up to see it..
dont we deserve to see some effort and detemination from the players????

whats my motivation for waking up at 6.30 having eased off on the drinks friday night cos knew had to drive up there.
spend 34 quid on a ticket food petrol etc another 20 for a game that means nothing...

my motivation is that i love the club...and the players yesterday didnt seem to care

 

[marco]

I said before the game to my mate, if Benitez goes Crouch up front on his own then you need to play Senderos. He is the only organiser in our defence and the only one who excels on high balls and crosses. In fairness, had he gone with Bellamy or Kuyt then Phil may have been exposed, but in hindsight he should have rested Gallas or Toure and played Senderos.

What pisses me off is that I mentioned this to my friend again in the concourses and some big grossly fat guy overhead me and started having a go at me for "not knowing that Senderos is total s**t". He then claimed HE was better than Phil!

In fairness, the guy proved his point later in the day, as I saw him again as we were driving home. There he was, in his full "athletic prime", slumped against the wall of a kebab house porking his way through a doner!

So there you go guys, the way for us to keep clean sheets isn't to rotate our players depending on our opposition, or to stop crosses in, or to clear them when they do. The way forward is to lump a graduate from the fat basteria on the pitch and let him blubber his to goal! :wink:

yep i think senderos isnt good enough for us but we all agreed on the way home that there was no way that crouch would have done what he did had big phil played

 

[vin de guerre]

Well it looks like the international break has not done us any favours. I just hope the next seven days under Wenger's hawkish eye will make a difference for the better. Roll on the Hammers- we owe them some serious grief!

 

[Alfonso]

I said a few weeks ago that Sp**s are my main worry for 4th place. They have been the opposite of us in the past few weeks, and scoring goals like there is no tomorrow. Surely they wont do to us what we did to them last season? :shock: The game at White Hart Lane will be massive.

No they won't.

But I'm not surprised you think they have a chance of doing it. Have more faith.

Have faith based on what? Is faith going put the ball in the back of the net?

There only 7 points behind us now, and we have a game in hand. However, everyone sees this game in hand as a VIP ticket to the Champions League,but there is no gurantee we will beat Man City. We have a harder run up than Sp**s and we have to go to their place as well, which will not be easy. Next week will be crucial, they play Chelsea away and we are at home to West Ham. A win is a must, but West Ham are on better form than us! Says it all really.

The problem is i cant see where our next goal is coming from, let alone point. Wheras as Sp**s are on the up, playing good football, having good spirit, have a swagger about them, and are scoring goals for fun. We are at the complete opposite end at the moment, and it is a very scary thought.

Out of the teams battling for fourth, we are the ones in "freefall", whereas the others around us are in decent form, especially Tottenham. For anyone to deny Sp**s have radically improved over the last couple of seasons is in serious denial as they now look a decent bet to qualify for European football for the second year in a row. They have won five on the spin in the league I believe. That's good form for any team.

4th place is going to be very much like last season i think. Go straight down to the wire. We should have enough to get it, but with this Arsenal side, nothing would suprise me.

 

[Wenger14]

We're playing with absolutely no motivation at all. And you can't completely blame the players for it, we have no silverware to play for, and have been in a comfort zone with regards to qualifying for the CL. What does worry me is if we continue to play like this, we'll be scrapping for 4th and our confidence will hit rock bottom. I was hoping we would bounce back from the cup final defeat and have a good run in, to carry that form into next season, ending the season on 75+ points. But now I'm becoming more and more worried that we'll finish the season on a low and carry that form into next season, which is very likely as our confidence on a whole is on a real low, and I can't see it getting any better by May. We've got some real tough away fixtures coming up, and Chelsea and Bolton at home, scrapping for 4th is a very real possibility.

You say you dont blame the players for not playing with any motivation yesterday but what about the 3,000 among us that went up to see it..
dont we deserve to see some effort and detemination from the players????

whats my motivation for waking up at 6.30 having eased off on the drinks friday night cos knew had to drive up there.
spend 34 quid on a ticket food petrol etc another 20 for a game that means nothing...

my motivation is that i love the club...and the players yesterday didnt seem to care

Marco, sorry if I was unclear, but I in no way condone the lack of desire, drive and commitment shown by our players. But I can see where it comes from. I Agree with your sentiments completely and I would be surprised if anyone didn't.

 

[lee1001]

Just watched the game again and id like to highlight some key moments in the game which i think could have changed the complexity of it.

First incident...Baptista got the better of a Pool defender and Ade was waiting 5 yards away with the goal at his mercy. Baptista takes a criminal second touch and Reina collects. A better second touch and Ade had a tap in.

Second incident... Square ball for Baptista on the edge of the area, has the whole goal to shoot at and puts it 10 yards wide.

Third incident...Ade with a left foot snap shot. Off the post.

Fourth incident...Ade with a wonderful header which 9 out of 10 times will give you a goal but Reina makes a wonderful save to tip it on to the post.

All four of those incidents could/should have given us a goal. Then we would have had a different game.

Id also like to talk about the Gallas -Toure partnership. Mark my words, this partnership will concede goal after goal from set pieces. Gallas and Toure are simply not good enough in the air and we will always have an achilles heal if they are our first choice.

Whether Toure moves to right back and we buy a dominant center half to play with Toure or Senderos i don't know and there are plenty of threads to discuss that.

Eboue and Clichy also have to improve defensively by 50% if we are going to keep it tight at the back.

I don't think the current squad will ever be good enough defensively and i don't think wenger's idealistic philosophy of attacking football will help that.

I fear for the foreseebale future we will be like Keegan's Newcastle, score more goals than the opposition.

 

[the dawn raids]

we do need another winger, though. rotating rosicky, hleb and a third winger would be ideal imo. preferably someone different to rosicky and hleb; a player like the ljungberg of a few years ago...

this is an absolute necessity this summer. ribery, robinho; whoever can add some goals really.

neither ribery nor robinho would fit the bill. neither of them would offer what we'd need from the wing. robinho is class, but more of a 'second forward' and ribery is nothing more than a poor man's hleb.

i think they could both at the very least add a few goals from our midfield tally; not that that would be too hard as our tally this year from midfield is abysmal.

who would you have in mind kel?

 

[patrick42uk]

we do need another winger, though. rotating rosicky, hleb and a third winger would be ideal imo. preferably someone different to rosicky and hleb; a player like the ljungberg of a few years ago...

this is an absolute necessity this summer. ribery, robinho; whoever can add some goals really.

neither ribery nor robinho would fit the bill. neither of them would offer what we'd need from the wing. robinho is class, but more of a 'second forward' and ribery is nothing more than a poor man's hleb.

ribery and hleb are completely different players; although all you need to do to be different from hleb is to make a forward run to be honest.

 

[Biggus]

To be fair Crouch was very good, and their first goal was a cracker.

And the sort that we don't score. Then the timing of it of course set the tone for the game.

 

[Viper]

To be fair Crouch was very good, and their first goal was a cracker.

It's really worrying though that Adebayor seems to be the only person who even remotely looks like scoring.

Mind you, I tihnk I did see Hleb shoot from 35 yards in the second half. I nearly spilt my beer....

Agree with most posters - the midfield of Cesc and Denilson seemed weird. Why not start with Diaby and Freddie or Tomas, and swap those last two?

I think I couldn't believe my eyes when Hleb tried to smash it from that range.

ALEKS, IF YOU'RE READING THIS, PLEASE SHOOT MORE OFTEN. YOU MAY SCORE FAR MORE GOALS!

 

[Lukazan]

It was a bloody decent shot too.

Didn't get a replay though.