PL: West Ham United vs Arsenal | 05/11/06

[Jkreffer]

True it does bring the midfielders more into play and they end up with more chances. However, no ones finishing has been particulaly good this year including Henrys. This is by no means an excuse for some terrible misses yesterday though.

 

[andyswafc]

Reo-Coker will undoubtedly put in his first performance of the season. that could inspire the win, we'll see.

Why the pessemist? Could of been playing along side Cesc.........

 

[sabret00the]

Reo-Coker will undoubtedly put in his first performance of the season. that could inspire the win, we'll see.

Why the pessemist? Could of been playing along side Cesc.........

Not being a pessimist, it's just that he's not played like 10% of the player he is this season and now all of a sudden the reason for that is on his door step, he'll try and prove that he's still an asset to us.

 

[Kilgallon]

I'm gonna be optimistic for once...4-1 to the Arsenal.

Henry x 2, Rosicky and Fabregas...

We've outplayed pretty much every team so far this season and we're due a good win. Hopefully we won't concede early and West Ham will come out for us to attack them.

 

[patrick42uk]

Only when Rosicky goes through on goal it's different from Henry going through on goal. Like I said, 4-5-1 mainly creates chances for the midfielders. Our midfielders are not goalscorers, so it's hardly surprising that we don't score enough goals.

are you saying that if we played 4-4-2 (with two central), rosicky wouldnt have got his chance at all or that he would have put the chance away?

9 prem games we'v played. drawn 3 lost 1. thats 4 game where we havent scored enough. guess which formation we played in 3 of those 4 games?

OK, i'll admit, thats a silly, childish game. but then so is any attempt to blame rosicky missing from 3 yards out on tactics.

 

[Gurgen]

I'm not blaming Rosicky for missing from 3 yards out on tactics, I'm not even talking exclusively about the game yesterday. It's you who jumps from 1 to 3 in the blink of an eye.

 

[patrick42uk]

i know you werent gurgen thats why i referred to ALL the games we'v played in the prem to dispute whatever argument you werent trying to make.

:wink:

 

[andyswafc]

Reo-Coker will undoubtedly put in his first performance of the season. that could inspire the win, we'll see.

Why the pessemist? Could of been playing along side Cesc.........

Not being a pessimist, it's just that he's not played like 10% of the player he is this season and now all of a sudden the reason for that is on his door step, he'll try and prove that he's still an asset to us.

Well lets hope not, but hopefully proves himself over the rest of the season. Anyone think Mascerano will start, i have a sneeky feeling he will, again like Sabe said, to prove himself against the big-guns.

 

[kel varnsen]

i would like to see gallas and toure paired up as centre backs again. i think they were magnificent(except for the one time love got away from gallas). two reasons:

-i want to see clichy start again. he played fairly well against cska, but is a bit rusty and needs match practice.

-as i think we'll dominate the match, gallas' and toure's exceptional skill as defenders one on one could be vital to us if west ham tries to hit us on the break.

 

[Big Poppa]

Only when Rosicky goes through on goal it's different from Henry going through on goal. Like I said, 4-5-1 mainly creates chances for the midfielders. Our midfielders are not goalscorers, so it's hardly surprising that we don't score enough goals.

Pires always outscored Bergkamp, Wiltord, Kanu and any other striker bar Henry. Best teams get goals from all over the pitch, not just strikers. Everybody in the team is getting plenty of chances and sooner or later they'll go in.

Henry, despite starting as the only 'striker' for most games has scored 5 goals in 8. van Persie has 4 in even less. We need goal threats from all over the pitch to win the league. It's always been that way.

 

[Gurgen]

Only when Rosicky goes through on goal it's different from Henry going through on goal. Like I said, 4-5-1 mainly creates chances for the midfielders. Our midfielders are not goalscorers, so it's hardly surprising that we don't score enough goals.

Pires always outscored Bergkamp, Wiltord, Kanu and any other striker bar Henry. Best teams get goals from all over the pitch, not just strikers. Everybody in the team is getting plenty of chances and sooner or later they'll go in.

Pires was a goalscorer, Rosicky isn't. What exactly is the point you're trying to make here?

We had Pires, Freddie, Dennis, Henry, thats 4 players who you bank on to score one on one with the keeper. Now we have Henry, RvP and....?

I don't believe in the 'unlucky' and 'sooner or later we'll score' bollocks, sorry. If you're goalscoring material you'll score, simple as that. It's not a skill that magically appears. It doesn't take more than 3 or 4 games to see if someone has scoring potential either.

A lot of managers look at their squad at the beginning of the season and add up all the goals their important players have scored in the previous seasons.
Let's do that for Arsenal, league goals only this time:

Henry 27
Van Persie 5
Rosicky 5 (poor season argument is void because he has never scored more in a season)
Hleb 3
Cesc 3

This is our front five. Still surprised we're not scoring enough goals? I'm not.

 

[YuenBiaoFan]

Ade?
Baptista?

I've got faaaar more faith in those other 4 than you have Gurgen anyway....

 

[nidza7]

Is this start of our traditional bad Novembar days?
Well,I really don`t know what to expect from this tie.Something tells me we`ll win after two draws.
Hope our passing game prevail this time and we put some convincing performance.Any win could rise our spirits high atm.

 

[nazo]

It would be nice to play 4-4-2 but i'm pretty sure we are going to go with our 4-5-1/4-1-4-1/4-3-3/or whatever the hell it is formation. I think we can beat West Ham by more than 2 goals but the most important thing is that we don't concede first.

Our lineup should stay the same overall, Eboue might be back so he could replace Hoyte. Also, i want Clichy to play again to get match fit.

I hope we continue doing one thing we did pretty good against Cska, and that was releasing the ball faster (two good examples i remember are the Robin and Cesc passes to Hleb and Gilberto). We should try catching them on the counter and split their defense.

 

[Big Poppa]

Only when Rosicky goes through on goal it's different from Henry going through on goal. Like I said, 4-5-1 mainly creates chances for the midfielders. Our midfielders are not goalscorers, so it's hardly surprising that we don't score enough goals.

Pires always outscored Bergkamp, Wiltord, Kanu and any other striker bar Henry. Best teams get goals from all over the pitch, not just strikers. Everybody in the team is getting plenty of chances and sooner or later they'll go in.

Pires was a goalscorer, Rosicky isn't. What exactly is the point you're trying to make here?

We had Pires, Freddie, Dennis, Henry, thats 4 players who you bank on to score one on one with the keeper. Now we have Henry, RvP and....?

I don't believe in the 'unlucky' and 'sooner or later we'll score' bollocks, sorry. If you're goalscoring material you'll score, simple as that. It's not a skill that magically appears. It doesn't take more than 3 or 4 games to see if someone has scoring potential either.

A lot of managers look at their squad at the beginning of the season and add up all the goals their important players have scored in the previous seasons.
Let's do that for Arsenal, league goals only this time:

Henry 27
Van Persie 5
Rosicky 5 (poor season argument is void because he has never scored more in a season)
Hleb 3
Cesc 3

This is our front five. Still surprised we're not scoring enough goals? I'm not.

We're among the top 3 scorers in the league. 1 Shy of Chelsea despite playing 1 game less. We could have scored plenty more but we're only 9 games into the season.

The point I'm trying to make about Pires is that he didn't suddenly become a 'great goalscorer' as you call it. In fact I'm pretty sure we all remember how many games it took before he scored his first goal away for us at Lazio(It was certainly more than '3 or 4').

At Marseille he scored 8 goals in 66 games. The reason he became this great goalscorer from midfield was because he kept getting in those positions, kept getting chances, and began putting them away. He was a decent finisher capable of scoring the odd great goal, but rarely scored them with high frequency.

One of the funniest things you'll hear is managers talking about these '20 goal-a-season' strikers that they so desperately need. As if they come pre-packaged with a guarantee to score 20 goals. In reality it doesn't work like that. There are players like for example, Joe Cole who could not score for love nor money a couple of seasons ago but now can do it for fun.

It's about being integrated within the attacking synergy of the team and getting in goalscoring positions. I'm not expecting Hleb Rosicky and Cesc to all suddenly deliver 15 goals each this season, but my point is that each is capable of weighing in with their fair share because they are all getting chances. have more than enough talent to stick it away and are still improving.

 

[Gurgen]

Pires had a dip at Marseille, but he was a 10+ a season man at Metz. He has always been a goalscorer, the potential was always there. Rosicky and Hleb just don't have it. Cesc does have it, because he was a big goalscorer for the Spanish youth teams. No doubt he'll reach that level on the world stage too. But the other two, I'm not so sure at all.

 

[clockwork orange]

Pires had a dip at Marseille, but he was a 10+ a season man at Metz. He has always been a goalscorer, the potential was always there. Rosicky and Hleb just don't have it. Cesc does have it, because he was a big goalscorer for the Spanish youth teams. No doubt he'll reach that level on the world stage too. But the other two, I'm not so sure at all.

Yes, that's why until Baptista and Ade are ready we should play the following line-up:

-----------------------------Jens-------------------------
--------------------------Defence-----------------------
--------------------------Gilberto-----------------------
----Hleb------------------Cesc--------------Rosicky---
-------------RVP------------------Henry--------------

 

[Big Poppa]

Pires had a dip at Marseille, but he was a 10+ a season man at Metz. He has always been a goalscorer, the potential was always there. Rosicky and Hleb just don't have it. Cesc does have it, because he was a big goalscorer for the Spanish youth teams. No doubt he'll reach that level on the world stage too. But the other two, I'm not so sure at all.

Yes, he did score a few at Metz if I remember rightly. But in the same way you can call his period at Marseille a 'dip', you can call his stint at Metz a false dawn or a mere 'purple patch' rather than an indicator of his natural born instincts. After all, many young players have the the odd season or two like that when everything just clicks - before they seem to fade away to oblivion.

The fact is, there was no way of knowing that until Pires 2nd season here in 2001, and then he repeated it after that injury in 2003 + thereafter. When Pires arrived, he was known more for his assists and was still something of an enigma in French football. At that stage a lot of Gooners were scratching their heads as to how we would manage to replace the goals of Overmars with this skinny French lightweight.

All he head was great goalscoring potential but really and truly that was not something you can say that Wenger identified within his game and signed him for. First and foremost was his exceptional movement and propensity to drive forward with purpose in the final third. Everything else pieced itself together as he grew in confidence & stature, going from a bit-part spectator in games to being the one who dictated some of our best flowing moves.

It's hard to place faith in players that have no real goalscoring track-record I know, but as their individual self-belief grows - you can say their attacking game improving almost game-by-game. Maybe I'm just an eternal optimist with blind faith, but I see something there that's almost like a spark on a tip of dynamite burning the rope away slowly and waiting to explode.

 

[Lord Dula]

Pires had a dip at Marseille, but he was a 10+ a season man at Metz. He has always been a goalscorer, the potential was always there. Rosicky and Hleb just don't have it. Cesc does have it, because he was a big goalscorer for the Spanish youth teams. No doubt he'll reach that level on the world stage too. But the other two, I'm not so sure at all.

Although I agree Pires was more of a goalgetter than any of our current midfielders, this you're a goalscorer or not philosophy doesnt wash with me.

Scholes for example scored loads from the middle, then when ages without scoring. Same thing happened with RVN and his new strike partner Raul. Peoples game changes as they develop.

 

[clockwork orange]

Players can indeed suddenly turn into a more prolific goalscorer or loose lethalness. But imo if a player never has scored more than 3-5 goals a season (at the age of 25), it's unlikely he will start scoring 10+ even is he plays for a more attacking team.