PL: West Ham United vs Arsenal | 24/09/05

[Asterix]

What a lot of crap there is on here. Tony Montana got it right - some of you guys should have been around in the 80s - we finished 14th one season - now that was something to moan about.

Our lack of depth is a worry, but replacing Bergkamp and Pires at their best was always going to be extremely difficult, never mind Vieira. Wenger could have bought someone Iguess, but he looked at his squad and had faith in his youngsters. When he looked at the transfer market he couldn't see anyone available that he had more faith in. It may be hard, but this is your team. Don't give me the "Wenger is no good" routine - give me something constructive. Hleb in centre mid may be worth a go for instance. And I agree about the shooting business.

Let's get over it and look forward.

 

[kel varnsen]

What a lot of crap there is on here. Tony Montana got it right - some of you guys should have been around in the 80s - we finished 14th one season - now that was something to moan about.

oh, ffs that is completely irrelevant. times change and so do our expectations. looking at this in absolute terms is *; everything is relative. in this case to the previous 3-4 seasons under wenger's reign; not what we did decades ago...

 

[Asterix]

I wasn't talking about any of your comments kel, and my comments were relevant when it comes to people blowing in and mouthing off about what a crap manger Wenger is. Sometimes it certainly does pay to take a more historical perspective.

If you, or anyone else, thinks that this club should be winning the league every year, or even being the main challenger every year, then take a look at the history books. it simply isn't going to happen.

That said, I agree with you that the evidence of our last 4-5 years (the years under Wenger for those of you who are bashing him) suggests we should be doing better. That's what I then discussed in the rest of my post.

An analysis of the present in the historical context is most certainly justified in my opinion.

 

[chandraraj]

i only watched the last twenty minutes and i was wondering what on earth arsenal was doing! as many of you pointed out, there is something missing in this arsenal team. yeah, the potential is there. but apart from that.... everything is missing!

 

[hellolo]

are these the same ppl who were creaming in theri pants when we beat man utd in the charity shield with kids
screaming galatikids and "sell vieira"
the same ppl who were raving about hleb 5 matches ago
the same ppl who fell in love with reyes when he got the 2 goals against the chavs
the same people who said cesc is world class right now
my how fickle you people are
sure im dissapointed a pissed off when we lose but seriously, some you people have issues arsenal have come a long way ever since wenger arrived and i'm excited for our future
i dont want arsenal to be another leeds utd and buy for the "short term"
i like the squad we have and i think the development of the youth this year will be phenomenal for the future
so take a deep breath , get behind the team
maybe this song is as appropriate to you ppl as it is to chelski fans
"where were you when we were ****??!!?""

 

[gunner_down_under]

how long could one be optimistic man?....a lot of the fans including me aren't really worried about missing games anymore!....i agree people are sick of chelsea and their resources....but, still 2nd place is right up there for grabs yeah?...

 

[bluey]

I have been supporting Arsenal since '78 and have seen the good times and bad times. The Terry Neil/Don Howe teams, & GG. I feel that we are in a crossroads and AW's tactics remind me of the last couple of seasons of DH and GG. AW is too rigid and he is lacking ideas. We should have never have sold Vieira who was the heartbeat of the team.

 

[sabret00the]

I wasn't talking about any of your comments kel, and my comments were relevant when it comes to people blowing in and mouthing off about what a crap manger Wenger is. Sometimes it certainly does pay to take a more historical perspective.

If you, or anyone else, thinks that this club should be winning the league every year, or even being the main challenger every year, then take a look at the history books. it simply isn't going to happen.

That said, I agree with you that the evidence of our last 4-5 years (the years under Wenger for those of you who are bashing him) suggests we should be doing better. That's what I then discussed in the rest of my post.

An analysis of the present in the historical context is most certainly justified in my opinion.

i disagree, while i'm not out to bash Wenger i find it ludicrous that he has to finish 15th before you're justified in your criticism of him, for me, i find it hard to go from 2nd to 7th in the space of a season and i feel the problem is actually the manager.

the system needs changing for this new team and the we neeed to do better with our substitutions. those are things only the manager can do and being mediocre in the 80's isn't an excuse to be mediocre now, the 80's have **** all to do with this thread.

 

[jeromelee]

It's not all Wenger's fault. We just lack the depth in subs to make any difference in this game. I had alraedy predicted the draw anyway.

True he didn't really strengthen in the summer, but he had a plan. He wanted to try out the youngsters and give them a chance. It may seem to have fail now, and that he made a mistake. But if he didn't try it this season, then we would all be crying for him to give the youngsters a chance to shine.

With the injuries we had prior to the westham game it seemed the lineup we had is the best we could've come up with. Guess it wasn't good enough. But that's the best we had. I don't think Quincy nor Song nor anyone could've come on and changed the game or turned it around. I think Wenger made a mistake this season by banking on the youngsters to pull us through. He would've realize this by end of the yaer. Hopefully, this will spur him to make some important signings next summer. Consider this a summer of trials and errors. We had to see first hand how our boys handle the pressure. MU did it and it worked out for them. Guess it just didn't work out for us.

Don't cry for Wenger's head just yet. He's still one of the best managers in the game.

Lets just enjoy this season and wait to see how we'll be like next season in our new stadium and possibly with some major signings.

Go gunners.

 

[sabret00the]

It's not all Wenger's fault. We just lack the depth in subs to make any difference in this game. I had alraedy predicted the draw anyway.

True he didn't really strengthen in the summer, but he had a plan. He wanted to try out the youngsters and give them a chance. It may seem to have fail now, and that he made a mistake. But if he didn't try it this season, then we would all be crying for him to give the youngsters a chance to shine.

i'm not crying for wenger's head but it is all his fault.

first of all he's the manager and has to take responsibility. second of all the team haven't looked great since Austria when a 17year old was outshinning star players. Then theirs the fact that he finished last season saying the wrong mix of youth and experience yet started this season with that same wrong mix. he identified problems within our team that NEEEDED strengthening and when he couldn't get his first choice acted like a spoilt child and never took the second option and then once again the existing team was good enough, it's clearly not, i could've told you that from May. the saving grace of all of this was that the tatics we used in the Everton game looked like they were gonna save the season but due to having one eye on the Champs league game we dumped them in favour of having a fresher reyes to play in front of Dennis. in regards to not having the right players for the bench, who's responsibility is it to make sure we have them? Wenger's we're not a huge team we can tell world class players to come to Arsenal to be bench warmers but we can bring in players to do that. Oh and the one thing we all knew without a doubt is that we needed a real understudy/second option to Gilberto, so i see no reason Wenger didn't.

But as i say i'm not asking for his head, i'm just angry, if it comes out that he's playing for second spot then i'll ask for his head immediately but i hope he's not doing that.

 

[Anonymous]

One fact is simple.

Arsenal have been qualifiiying for the champions league for quite a while.
Now that money should have been better spent regarding the relative upkeep of the first and second squads.

Because it is readily apparent that outside of part of the first team.
..and I emphasize PART of the first team, there is a distinct lack of depth, competent depth, reliable depth, different players in name rather then style, and basically players who have been frozen out solid, so much so, that if called upon now, would probably not actually be able to do anything significant.. due to a lack of grooming and experience.

It's simple... there has been some neglect going on Arsenal. I think everyone knew that, Everyone knew that Henry and Vieira's individual qualities and moments of brilliance, have clouded people's judgements and logical pathways.. in order to disguise what is a very rag tag squad, potential or not.

I have to say, history or not - I've never seen so much disguise since feckin Transformers.

Arsenal football club, more then meets the eye. Sigh.

 

[Gurgen]

I wasn't talking about any of your comments kel, and my comments were relevant when it comes to people blowing in and mouthing off about what a crap manger Wenger is. Sometimes it certainly does pay to take a more historical perspective.

If you, or anyone else, thinks that this club should be winning the league every year, or even being the main challenger every year, then take a look at the history books. it simply isn't going to happen.

That said, I agree with you that the evidence of our last 4-5 years (the years under Wenger for those of you who are bashing him) suggests we should be doing better. That's what I then discussed in the rest of my post.

An analysis of the present in the historical context is most certainly justified in my opinion.

i disagree, while i'm not out to bash Wenger i find it ludicrous that he has to finish 15th before you're justified in your criticism of him, for me, i find it hard to go from 2nd to 7th in the space of a season and i feel the problem is actually the manager.

the system needs changing for this new team and the we neeed to do better with our substitutions. those are things only the manager can do and being mediocre in the 80's isn't an excuse to be mediocre now, the 80's have f**k all to do with this thread.

Can we at least wait until he finishes 7th (which will never happen, as we both well know) before we sack him?

What would not be acceptable in my book would be if we fail to qualify for the CL.

 

[Taozhe]

are these the same ppl who were creaming in theri pants when we beat man utd in the charity shield with kids
screaming galatikids and "sell vieira"
the same ppl who were raving about hleb 5 matches ago
the same ppl who fell in love with reyes when he got the 2 goals against the chavs
the same people who said cesc is world class right now
my how fickle you people are
sure im dissapointed a pissed off when we lose but seriously, some you people have issues arsenal have come a long way ever since wenger arrived and i'm excited for our future
i dont want arsenal to be another leeds utd and buy for the "short term"
i like the squad we have and i think the development of the youth this year will be phenomenal for the future
so take a deep breath , get behind the team
maybe this song is as appropriate to you ppl as it is to chelski fans
"where were you when we were s**t??!!?""

We are used to them now I guess ;D

 

[alexander_hleb]

are these the same ppl who were creaming in theri pants when we beat man utd in the charity shield with kids
screaming galatikids and "sell vieira"
the same ppl who were raving about hleb 5 matches ago
the same ppl who fell in love with reyes when he got the 2 goals against the chavs
the same people who said cesc is world class right now
my how fickle you people are
sure im dissapointed a pissed off when we lose but seriously, some you people have issues arsenal have come a long way ever since wenger arrived and i'm excited for our future
i dont want arsenal to be another leeds utd and buy for the "short term"
i like the squad we have and i think the development of the youth this year will be phenomenal for the future
so take a deep breath , get behind the team
maybe this song is as appropriate to you ppl as it is to chelski fans
"where were you when we were s**t??!!?""

Brilliant post.

all i can say is we didn't play well and it wasn't a good day at all because chelsea won again...the only good thing was manure got beaten by blackburn.

all this s**t people talking bout sacking wenger...get a life and start thinking. who can replace a manager like him? someone answer me that question please because all im hearing is Oh sack wenger sack him hes s**t without saying who could replace him...just think damn it

whatever happens to the club im still 100% behind Arsenal and will be till the very end.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

I think we need to show a little patience now, we're seeing why Wenger was always reluctant to put the youngsters in "You pay with points". No, things aren't happening on the pitch at present, but (and I guess this has been missed by most) we have a completely different midfield to the one that has characterised the last three years and it needs time to gel, but we also need a leader to emerge from the four that play there. I don't think we have that as yet. What we're also missing from the midfield is goals. And that's being compounded by the loss of Thierry. Which has also meant a relatively new strike partnership for us, which hasn't really carried on as it left off last season, which is disappointing.

On the plus side, the class of 2004 defence is back together and we haven't conceded a goal in two games, so we're starting to get it right somewhere.

 

[kel varnsen]

I wasn't talking about any of your comments kel, and my comments were relevant when it comes to people blowing in and mouthing off about what a crap manger Wenger is. Sometimes it certainly does pay to take a more historical perspective.

If you, or anyone else, thinks that this club should be winning the league every year, or even being the main challenger every year, then take a look at the history books. it simply isn't going to happen.

like i've said time and time again, it's not about the results. what worries me are the the actual performances. our offense is worse than ever under wenger's helm. 5 goals from open play in 6 matches is pathetic and the worst part, it is not too few either. too many misunderstandings between players, lack of movement off the ball, inaccurate passing, pushing everything through the middle, our full backs aren't contributing as much as they should etc etc. there are a lot of problems...

 

[the dawn raids]

holding the ball up way too much and innaccurate passing are whats killing us at the moment. and having 2cm's, one whos never been the greatest passer, and one who just cant seem to get it right passing now is a real concern (not as if their place is under threat, because theres no one to threaten them).

and it would be nice if someone would shoot the ball every now and then, because, see, thats how you score a goal these days. a radical approach i know.

 

[qs]

like i've said time and time again, it's not about the results. what worries me are the the actual performances. our offense is worse than ever under wenger's helm. 5 goals from open play in 6 matches is pathetic and the worst part, it is not too few either. too many misunderstandings between players, lack of movement off the ball, inaccurate passing, pushing everything through the middle, our full backs aren't contributing as much as they should etc etc. there are a lot of problems...

*bang*

that was the noise of Kel hitting the nail on the head.

You've identified the problems but whats the solution? Without a what Wenger shouldve done during the summer or who to buy next. Right now with who we have how do we solve the problem. Id like to see Lupoli given a chance, I know he's small and he'd be knocked about the place but Id like to see if he can lose his marker every now and then.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

*bang*

that was the noise of Kel hitting the nail on the head.

You've identified the problems but whats the solution? Without a what Wenger shouldve done during the summer or who to buy next. Right now with who we have how do we solve the problem. Id like to see Lupoli given a chance, I know he's small and he'd be knocked about the place but Id like to see if he can lose his marker every now and then.

hleb flamini cesc clichy
quincy Freddie

And you still think we need LUPOLI upfront. So far all the critiques of wenger have gotten most of waht they considered to be their solutions..even quincy is getting playing time and RvP is a regular now. Well you can see for yourself the result. Anyone who think we should be winning games easily with the kinda of lineup we had needs to get a reality check. We have potential..all these kids including Reyes are still very much potential greats. With young potentials you hope they will surprise you and come through now but you expect them to come thru later on down the road. Remember that.

The game yesterday was simply a bad day at the office. Misplaced passes, lack of control is not WENGER's fault. Players should NOT be doing that but sometimes it happens. Reyes/Rvp had a bad game. If DB10 was doing lousy you will want him replaced..well same goes with both of them..and you could see frustration was creeping up ..and the last thing we needed was a card. I think the subs were o.k bos both weren't doing sh* yesterday.

And y'all who are *****in forget there was another f*ing team on the field yesterday and they did well. Kudos to them. Hold your whignig again till tomorrow..am sure with the lineup that doesn't even have Gilberto y'all will still be expecting us to win easily over there!! Keep dreaming.

 

[kel varnsen]

Anyone who think we should be winning games easily with the kinda of lineup we had needs to get a reality check. We have potential..all these kids including Reyes are still very much potential greats. With young potentials you hope they will surprise you and come through now but you expect them to come thru later on down the road. Remember that.
.

1. what do you even mean by that? that we can't expect anything from the likes of hleb, cesc, reyes, van persie etc etc because they're young? van persie is a dutch international, reyes one of the biggest spanish prospects in years, hleb arguably the best player in the bundesliga etc etc. i expect them to perform week in week out...

2.that's part of the problem. we lack depth because wenger didn't strengthen the squad. all this moaning is a sympthom of the main problem; our complete apathy during the summer. the problem is in two parts:

-squad is too thin. wenger should have signed a few players.
-those already here are not meeting expectations. the likes of cesc, senderos, van persie, bergkamp, pires, flamini etc have not been doing their job so far this season...