PL: West Ham United vs Arsenal | 26/10/08

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

I see where you´re coming from now. I would say that you can have two kind of managers (Or two ways of how to look at the given situation). Either you decide to wait and see what the team you´re playing against will come with after the half time and make no change at half time or you will not look at them and just make a change when you think there is a need to do it, right now, right there-in the dressing room. I would wait untill 60 mints and then take some of our players off and say Ade to come on, you would do the same, just 15 minutes ago but we both would puzzle out that without Ade, we´re not going to win the game and that´s it!

In effect, yes. Normally I'm always for giving players more time if they're struggling a little bit, but neither of them were against West Ham. It was simply not working, and something had to be done. Given the importance of the game for our season I'd say that, even though you are the kind of manager who wants the players to sort themselves out on the field (which as I said is a view I sympathizes with under normal circumstances), you _can_ make a rare substitution at half time if you really need to.

 

[TomasCR]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

That´s right then.

Summary - From Wenger´s point of view - either there was no need to change a player at the half time or he wasn´t too sure and wanted to wait a few more minutes but 25 minutes were way too much, he has got it wrong. Good to know we have a striker that is able to do "something" in 20 minutes...

Damn in, I wouldn´t want to be a coach to be honest.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

I see where you´re coming from now. I would say that you can have two kind of managers (Or two ways of how to look at the given situation). Either you decide to wait and see what the team you´re playing against will come with after the half time and make no change at half time or you will not look at them and just make a change when you think there is a need to do it, right now, right there-in the dressing room. I would wait untill 60 mints and then take some of our players off and say Ade to come on, you would do the same, just 15 minutes ago but we both would puzzle out that without Ade, we´re not going to win the game and that´s it!

In effect, yes. Normally I'm always for giving players more time if they're struggling a little bit, but neither of them were against West Ham. It was simply not working, and something had to be done. Given the importance of the game for our season I'd say that, even though you are the kind of manager who wants the players to sort themselves out on the field (which as I said is a view I sympathizes with under normal circumstances), you _can_ make a rare substitution at half time if you really need to.

Klaus you are obviously a very good and proud Arsenal fan i meant no offence, my point is that AW rarely does something out of the ordinary like subbing a player at half time and while i dissagree with your opinion of the state of the game at halftime, the need for a change was apparent. Then AW does do something out of the ordinary because he left Bendy on....that was a crucial decision.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

My take on this substitution business is that the team were comfortable at half time. Wenger only threw Ade on when it became apparent we might not score in the 20 minutes he had left.

That the change took 5 minutes to work, for me is evidence that we didn't need to bring Ade on at half time. What's the point in him playing 45 minutes when he only needed 5 to win us the match?

I would only advocate a half time change if we were; a) losing, which we weren't, or b) not in control of the match and in drastic need of a change, this really wasn't the case either.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

My take on this substitution business is that the team were comfortable at half time. Wenger only threw Ade on when it became apparent we might not score in the 20 minutes he had left.

That the change took 5 minutes to work, for me is evidence that we didn't need to bring Ade on at half time. What's the point in him playing 45 minutes when he only needed 5 to win us the match?

I would only advocate a half time change if we were; a) losing, which we weren't, or b) not in control of the match and in drastic need of a change, this really wasn't the case either.

agreed...sharif dont like it mate....

 

[kamikaze80]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

agree with rtc and alboots. have no clue what KD is complaining about. it's not like we didnt create chances in the first half or were being played off the park. we won 2-0, wenger's substitutions ended up being spot on, we kept a clean sheet and really only allowed one scoring chance, and adebayor got a good rest ahead of the north london derby. mission accomplished on every conceivable level.

stop being so critical for its own sake. it's tedious.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

good gawd dont agree with me..lol

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

What's the point in him playing 45 minutes when he only needed 5 to win us the match?

Well, what was the point of him playing 25 minutes if he only needed 5 then? I don't really fancy that way of reasoning. Nothing in our game showed any signs of changing for the second half. Sure, we could have done one on a freekick or one of those rare occasions when Walcott got through, but we didn't. We had the possession, we had the power to stand up to their challenge and we had the force to push them back. We just lacked real goalchances. This was one of the very rare occasions where I thought an early substitution was utterly necessary. I very rarely feel that way.

I would only advocate a half time change if we were; a) losing, which we weren't, or b) not in control of the match and in drastic need of a change, this really wasn't the case either.

That's the difference right there I guess. I felt we really needed a drastic change. We were very much in control - to the extent that we would be more likely to get one point than three or zero.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

agree with rtc and alboots. have no clue what KD is complaining about.

I'm not really complaining. I said I thought we should have made a sub earlier than we did. I liked the way we handled the game except for the ineffectivity of the strikers in front of goal. If people are confusing that with being overcritical (especially when it's pretty much my only remark on the game) it's their own fault, I guess.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

usual prob. then klaus..agreed...but Ade looked up for it, when he came on

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

He certainly did.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

and he better look up for it on wed.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Another league goal of the season in the making perhaps? Let's hope so! Sp*urs need to have that bit of regained confidence taken away again.

 

[the dawn raids]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Arsène clearly picked the team with Wednesday night in mind. Anyone that doesn't understand this should be shot.

easy now, this place would be nearly desolate if we put that into effect apparently.

now wait until people start complaining about ade looking tired and in need of a rest.

:roll:

 

[Anzac]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

agree with rtc and alboots. have no clue what KD is complaining about.

I'm not really complaining. I said I thought we should have made a sub earlier than we did. I liked the way we handled the game except for the ineffectivity of the strikers in front of goal. If people are confusing that with being overcritical (especially when it's pretty much my only remark on the game) it's their own fault, I guess.

Alternatively AW could have changed player roles to see if that worked ahead of the decision to sub players.............