PL: West Ham United vs Arsenal | 26/10/08

[HollandGooner]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

West Ham was trying to hit us on the counter attack, because we had so many people before the ball, and our movement wasnt that great first half and our bal-circulation was very slowly, while West Ham never would be in trouble, Second half we raised our level more up, due to two goals.

 

[regele]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

And why did he have to change a bad player for a good player? Because he set the team up wrong. If he'd stuck to his original line-up we would have lost and as it was we were very lucky to win. How many times have we seen Wenger make a substitution with 20 minutes or less to go and it's been too late to rectify his earlier mistake?

Oh stop it... You're killing us all :?

Wenger got his starting lineup right yesterday and then made the right changes given the situation on the pitch; however, against Everton a lot of people thought he didn't(get the lineup right) and commented on it.

What's the big deal? Can somebody not criticize Wenger on a forum when he thinks he gets something wrong, without it meaning that everything Wenger does is wrong?

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Arsène clearly picked the team with Wednesday night in mind. Anyone that doesn't understand this should be shot.

Smartly, he gave himself options off the bench.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

I thought it was the right decision to rest Adebayor and Denilson as well. I thought it was the wrong decision not to bring Ade on already at half time, though. We were playing well but didn't have any penetrative players at all bar Walcott. We struggled to keep the pressure on West Ham's defence and to keep the ball in the final third of the field, and it didn't change until Ade came on. law is right - we were lucky. But the funny thing about luck is that the more effort you put into a game, the more luck you generally get out of tricky situations. We were fighting for it yesterday, and the result mirrored the distribution of goal chances well I thought even though both goals came fairly late in the game.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

mr Daimler, when have we ever had a sub at half time?..except when sol went missing in action..I dont recall it happening many times....it was perfect timing whufc were just running out of steam, then they had to deal with Ade at arguably his best...good call AW

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

mr Daimler, when have we ever had a sub at half time?

Meaning what? The point was that we needed him already in half time, not that we usually don't sub players that quickly. We played exactly the same for twenty more minutes in the second half after that before Ade finally came on.

 

[kamikaze80]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Arsène clearly picked the team with Wednesday night in mind. Anyone that doesn't understand this should be shot.

Smartly, he gave himself options off the bench.

it's pretty tedious reading through all these backseat managers' drivel when the reasons behind wenger's team selection were obvious and clearly stated by the man himself, isnt it?

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

mr Daimler, when have we ever had a sub at half time?

Meaning what? The point was that we needed him already in half time, not that we usually don't sub players that quickly. We played exactly the same for twenty more minutes in the second half after that before Ade finally came on.

crap...we won away from home...and subs at halftime is crap unless someone is gettig ripped to shreads its not done and i think we would`ve scored anyway but thats beside the point.

that side he put out did well enough, they travelled to Turkey during the week, dont forget and they put paid to the myth of not being able to play after a CL game...i bet your a seller as well..lol.your funny...subs half time...lol

 

[Shadow Moses]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Myles Palmer in the latest installment on his website argues that this team isnt motivated for run of the mill domestic games. I'm inclined to agree. Against West Ham, it was almost as if we were waiting to concede. I didnt see the Everton game but he felt we adpoted the smae attitude in that game too. Its a dangerous attitude because we wont always be able to recover from a goal down.

It's been said several times in match day threads. It's always a nonchalant attitude till we concede or are heading towards a draw in the final quarter of the match. It's a very poor attitude and it's bound to cost the team.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

looked like they were trying to control it to me, but hey i am clueless fool who know`s no better......they won...away....at west ham.....after.....winning away in Turkey..maybe they were a little slower than we like but fuc*ing hell west ham did`nt really get that much of a look in...we tried to keep the ball...it did`nt always work, nobody`s perfect.

 

[atmosphere]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Has anyone read todays papers? I don´t know if we won against West Ham or the whole league.

Has anyone read this thread in it's entirety?

I don't know if we won against West Ham or lost 6-0 to Sp**s.

Miserable ****s all of you.

 

[alboots101]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

I`m not

 

[TomasCR]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

And that´s exactly what we call good substutions no? Changing a bad player for the good one that can make an impact and eventually score a goal when needed and that´s exactly what Wenger did and what he did well.

And why did he have to change a bad player for a good player? Because he set the team up wrong. If he'd stuck to his original line-up we would have lost and as it was we were very lucky to win. How many times have we seen Wenger make a substitution with 20 minutes or less to go and it's been too late to rectify his earlier mistake?

But it´s really difficult to predict how the players will play, Law. When you look at the first five pages of this thread you will not find a line-up similar to the Wenger´s one. And I must say that resting Denilson and putting Gallas into the starting eleven despite of the smiking thing was a good move. Another thing is, as Wenger said, that last season Adebayor played way too much and It had an influence on his play at the end of the season when we needed him the most. He has decided to rest him and give Bendtner a chance (As most of us wanted him to do by the way) and I would say it ended up well.

There can be a bit of truth on what are you saying, yestreday was not a case of it though...

 

[General]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

What was incredible about last nights program is that Hansen was delirious with happiness at Liverpool's win and unbelievably went on to say that two of Gerrard's passes were the best you will ever see this season or something along those lines. They were two decent long range passes to players in space but nothing special when you looked at Bendtner's sublime through-ball or (I think it was) Barry's pass to Agbonlahor for Villa or even Sturridges pass to Robinho for his hat trick. The bias on MOTD is incredible and very unfair to the other teams that aren't Manchester United and in particular Liverpool.

Funny part was when Bright said he can't see Liverpool winning the league and Hansen looked like he was about to choke him. His head, together with the rest of his body is firmly wedged in Liverpool's a*rse.

 

[DC Gunner]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

And why did he have to change a bad player for a good player? Because he set the team up wrong. If he'd stuck to his original line-up we would have lost and as it was we were very lucky to win. How many times have we seen Wenger make a substitution with 20 minutes or less to go and it's been too late to rectify his earlier mistake?

Oh stop it... You're killing us all :?

Wenger got his starting lineup right yesterday and then made the right changes given the situation on the pitch; however, against Everton a lot of people thought he didn't(get the lineup right) and commented on it.

What's the big deal? Can somebody not criticize Wenger on a forum when he thinks he gets something wrong, without it meaning that everything Wenger does is wrong?

I am glad that you see what he is trying to do posting the above, just like I did.

I did not want to post about it, but what the hell, I will take the bait: when someone think/imagine that people are critical for the hell of it, he can not genuinely emulate their real frustrations, instead he shows what he thinks is an impression of them as opposed to being genuine, people can see through that.

The fact remains: people complained about specific things in the Everton match even before the match started, anyone could see it that having SONG in the RB was a big mistake from the very first moment, and whole and behold it took less than 9 minutes to cost us a goal; The half time substitution is never a wenger thing, AND THEY KNOW IT, Toure went out because of Injury not due to tactical improvisation by wenger.

Reading this thread before the match started, the only complaint people had was "Ade on the bench", while it is understandable why Wenger did it, it is also glaringly clear why people did not like benching him as evidenced by what happened after he was introduced into the squad.

Some people here think that people either "hate" wenger, or just trying to be critical for the hell of it

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

mr Daimler, when have we ever had a sub at half time?

Meaning what? The point was that we needed him already in half time, not that we usually don't sub players that quickly. We played exactly the same for twenty more minutes in the second half after that before Ade finally came on.

crap...we won away from home...and subs at halftime is crap unless someone is gettig ripped to shreads its not done and i think we would`ve scored anyway but thats beside the point.

that side he put out did well enough, they travelled to Turkey during the week, dont forget and they put paid to the myth of not being able to play after a CL game...i bet your a seller as well..lol.your funny...subs half time...lol

Don't portray me like some kind of anti-Wenger boy, because I'm clearly not. More often than not I find myself arguing on his side and I find the amount of critique he's getting from particular posters here astonishing. But the whole statement that the players were good enough to start is laughable. OF COURSE they were! No one in their right mind who have followed Arsenal for a few years now would suggest otherwise. I never questioned that! But they weren't doing enough to deserve to stay on the field against West Ham, and that's the whole point. We could just as easily have lost the game by concdeding a goal. In that situation there would have been no chance in hell for us to escape with a point since we lacked strikers and West Ham would have gone into defensive mode. We needed a radical change, and we needed it quickly. There's nothing masterful about doing a substitution in the 70th minute then when we needed it at half time already.

 

[TomasCR]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Can I? No KD, we didn´t need that at half time. You never know what will happen in the second half and when it´s 0:0 after the first half you will struggle to find a manager who would change a player in this situation, unless there are injuries or some player is playing badly as hell but no one of our players were.

I like the "changing your opinions" with Alboots though, it´s pretty funny.

 

[USArsenal]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Tony Adams in 2003 accused that Arsenal team of being too cavalier. I'd love to see this bunch turn into the same. West Ham for example only created anything when we were cautious in our attacking play ourselves. Once we started launching attack after attack with pace they simply had no answer. We rarely conceed from counters.

I'd actually like to see some of the cavalier attitude in this team.

i actually agree with this.. when we're attacking (really attacking), the other team has no real options.. and we dont typically concede fast break goals, we concede set piece goals..

the one problem is, we cant sustain that kind of fast paced attack attack attack for the entire game.. but i would like to see a bit more of it in the first half to try to effectively kill teams off

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Tomas: Exactly - you never know what will happen. It was a very important game for us and we needed to win it and we had the players available to change the play. It wasn't the right moment to gamble then. Adebayor was rested because Wenger doesn't want to overplay him, but what good does that do if we're losing points because of it? Normally I wouldn't suggest a substitution in half time either, but there was nothing that suggested that we were likely to score with two deep-lying strikers against that defence.

 

[TomasCR]

Re: EPL: West Ham v Arsenal| 26 Oct. 2008 16:00

Tomas: Exactly - you never know what will happen. It was a very important game for us and we needed to win it and we had the players available to change the play. It wasn't the right moment to gamble then. Adebayor was rested because Wenger doesn't want to overplay him, but what good does that do if we're losing points because of it? Normally I wouldn't suggest a substitution in half time either, but there was nothing that suggested that we were likely to score with two deep-lying strikers against that defence.

I see where you´re coming from now. I would say that you can have two kind of managers (Or two ways of how to look at the given situation). Either you decide to wait and see what the team you´re playing against will come with after the half time and make no change at half time or you will not look at them and just make a change when you think there is a need to do it, right now, right there-in the dressing room. I would wait untill 60 mints and then take some of our players off and say Ade to come on, you would do the same, just 15 minutes ago but we both would puzzle out that without Ade, we´re not going to win the game and that´s it!