players whom we want to leave

[Mark]

selling vieira, the only thing more stupid than that would be selling henry. vieira is our captain and although we coped for a long time without him i see a real difference when he plays. he's probably the best defensive midfielder in the world and selling him would be a very very stupid move.

 

[vin de guerre]

selling vieira, the only thing more stupid than that would be selling henry. vieira is our captain and although we coped for a long time without him i see a real difference when he plays. he's probably the best defensive midfielder in the world and selling him would be a very very stupid move.

This sounds like the golden calf here. no one player is indespensible! The latest on the Grove seems gloom and doom and a few extra pounds will come in useful.

 

[Mark]

first of all, you don't know that. if we were really in trouble with the stadium and needed to sell maybe we would be selling, but only sell players who are replacable. players like henry and vieira, in my opinion anyway, are irreplacable.

 

[vin de guerre]

I accept your opinion but to be honest TH is irreplacable where as Viera's absence has shown we can fully cope without him in and outside of the EPL!

 

[Mark]

we coped without him for quite a while, that's true, but in the long run it would be difficult to cope without him in big games in particular.

 

[vin de guerre]

did he play in Milan? that to me was a modestly big game in anyone's book! I do believe we have the players to perform when the going gets tough. By the way did he play in the FA Cup final? errr NO.

 

[Mark]

again, vin de guerre, that's only 2 games. i mean on a long enough timeline it would be better to have him here. i don't know if gilberto and edu in particular could deal with this sort of pressure all the way through the season. parlour could but he's not getting any younger is he?

 

[koivu]

It would be utterly ridiculous to sell Paddy, he makes such a difference! You must be crazy.

I would sell Jeffers, and anyone else can stay...just not Jeffers

 

[Andrew]

If you want to sell Vieira then you must be blind.

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Who would Vieira be replaced by? It just wouldn't make any sense to sell him.

 

[vin de guerre]

It would be utterly ridiculous to sell Paddy, he makes such a difference! You must be crazy.

I would sell Jeffers, and anyone else can stay...just not Jeffers

If you want to sell Vieira then you must be blind.

Neither am I crazy nor Blind. Viera is an entity ot rather a commodity whose value on the market is far greater than his present contribution on the pitch. I would be perfectly prepared if the right offer were come along to sell him for the better of the club. I may not like the idea but we cannot continue to cripple ourselves whilst we wait for increased revenue from Ashburn Grave.[/quote]

 

[godfather]

first of all, you don't know that. if we were really in trouble with the stadium and needed to sell maybe we would be selling, but only sell players who are replacable. players like henry and vieira, in my opinion anyway, are irreplacable.

true. and do you ever think wots will happened with others if we sold Pat? ----- its will not only about football!!!!!

 

[vin de guerre]

first of all, you don't know that. if we were really in trouble with the stadium and needed to sell maybe we would be selling, but only sell players who are replacable. players like henry and vieira, in my opinion anyway, are irreplacable.

true. and do you ever think wots will happened with others if we sold Pat? ----- its will not only about football!!!!!

Its not football its business at the highest of levels! We can do with out Paddy on the field but cant cope without the readies!!

 

[RocktheCasbah]

****s sake vin de guerre, I can't believe I'm reading a continued attack on Vieira's current performance. Yes, his first performances back weren't great (even then he cruised thru his comeback game), but he hasn't been fully fit since March this year, he's now starting to dominate again. Vieira's importance? Think about the title collapse last spring and who missed it through injury....

Yes, we've coped without him this season, brilliantly, but are any of our CM's better than him? No.
Maybe you'd like to sell him to Man U or Chelsea as they would pay most money for him?

 

[vin de guerre]

****s sake vin de guerre, I can't believe I'm reading a continued attack on Vieira's current performance. Yes, his first performances back weren't great (even then he cruised thru his comeback game), but he hasn't been fully fit since March this year, he's now starting to dominate again. Vieira's importance? Think about the title collapse last spring and who missed it through injury....

Yes, we've coped without him this season, brilliantly, but are any of our CM's better than him? No.
Maybe you'd like to sell him to Man U or Chelsea as they would pay most money for him?

Who is attacking Vera. I am participating in a conversation about the pros and cons of keeping the crown jewels! I want to be enlightened by fellow gunners what they think and feel about the players they like. I am sick of hearing the knockers, I want to hear the case for loyalty towards our players! :shock:

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

I think we should sell Viera.

Why would we sell Pat?

I think his market alue is at an all time high and to be honest we have the midfield talent to cope with out him. Let's make some money!

vin de querre..take a look at your initial posting. Wasn't strictly about FINANCING Ashburn grove..u went on about having a midfield to cope without him and doing well without him during this past stretch. We call u blind..cos of exactly that. You cant base ur argument cos we went through a good patch without him. Do you think we would have lost the EPL title last season had he been fully fit? Viera is class.

There is no point moving to a new stadium when we don't have a team that is good enough to compete for major honours. It will be a stupid move and thats what Wenger has said time and time again. These two go hand in hand. Building a new stadium and maintaining our core players.

 

[eikaz]

get out gilberto..and replace him with reyes.. ;D :mrgreen: ;D

 

[JazzG]

I'd sell Henry before I sold Vieira. Quite funny people forgot how he performed in the 2nd half of the season when he kept us in it while playing with an injured leg. He has had a torrid time this season with injuries but he will get back in the swing of things soon.

We coped ok in some of those games he was out, one could argue we won many of those games he was out by fluke as well. E.g. Sp**s, Liverpool and Chelsea. Some matches we were ok and sometimes teams dominated our midfield all too easily. Against Inter our midfield played very very deep. 5-1 flattered us, 2-1 or 3-1 might of been a fair result overall.

 

[quattro]

we coped ok without him at the start of the season probably because the team believes that he will be back when we need him most. thats a big difference from losing him in the spring the last time.

vieira is captain for a reason. he is also touted as one of the world's best defensive midfielders for a reason. his contribution to the team is more than just his performance on the pitch. selling vieira who is only 27 and probably on the verge of playing the best football of his life is a big step back from all the club has pushed on so far. he is as much a critical part of wenger's machinery as thierry henry. i severely doubt wenger has any plans of replacing such an important part of that machine that may or may not work.

 

[reggiepaul]

What vin de guerre is basically saying is quite sensical. Now if you were me, you'd come up with a concrete counter argument. The biggest being his power of presence as a player. Central midfield players are chosen as they control the game with dominance and posession and that is something Vieira does best BUT like I said there is sense to what Vin de guerre is saying.

We missed Vieira in some of our biggest games. He mentioned the San Siro game and the FA Cup - others?

Man Utd, we lost him from a sending off but we still dominated at old toilet

Liverpool
Chelsea
Newcastle (swapped for Edu on 25th minute)

Leeds, Sp**s, Brum amongst others...

Yet looking at the stats I noticed our game hadn't gone up a notch UNTIL Vieira and Gilberto were finally in the mix of things at Boro on the weekend.

Now vin states his market value is high so we can "do without him" and work off the money.

I can't thoroughly agree with that. As much as I understand the moollah is on the table Vieira and Gilberto are a great partnership and so is Edu and Vieira and as we have seen, Gilberto and Edu as well. All of this I personally feel is an offshoot of the Vieira being in the team. If Vieira goes we lose two of those concrete partnerships in the middle.

The market value may be there and football may be a business but you don't see Mcdonalds removing the big mac or the McChicken Sandwich off the menu so they can sell it to Burger King do ya?

The same reason, you can't remove Scholes or Keane from a team that is like Arsenal fighting at such a high level in the game. Some points I agree upon Vin but in general - nope. We COPED without him but throughout a season we need that partnership and that dominance he provides. YES we found a great partnership in Edu and Gilberto during the process but that doesn't mean our major factor in all this is a non-entity anymore. He is more so an entity in an newly evolved team.