Ratings and post-match discussion vs Sp**s

[outlaw_member]

Denilson's defensive play is very good when it's in front of him. His tackling precision is easily the best at the club. It's when the ball isn't directly near him, but within his vicinity, that he lacks urgency. He's desire to recover when play is behind him is also pretty half-hearted. But I agree though, he's looking alot stronger, and every aspect of his game will improve as a result.

 

[redanddread]

Kos - 8.5, Wilshere - 8.5, Arsh - 8.5

Gibbs - 7.5, Nasri - 7.5 (Extra point for two coolly taken pens and awesome celebrations after that)

Chamkah - 7, Rosicky - 7, Denilson - 7, Lansbury - 7(0.5 extra for goal)

Vela - 6.5, Eboue - 6.5

Fabianski - 5.5

Clichy - NA

Now, coming to general comments, Denilson looks an improved footballer this season and the improvement looks like a direct result of his physical growth. I've been impressed with his ability to keep hold of possession and he can not be just pushed or shoved off the ball anymore. Even his tackling seems to have improved a bit. Overall, there seems to be a different level of calmness and maturity about him.[/quote]


That's what happens when younger players grow up. Some do take longer than others though.

 

[ricky1985]

I think you're way off on Kieran BTW, Outlaw.

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night. Of course he didn't just drive wide on the overlap - the fact that he didn't is part of what makes him so special. There was no space at all on the outside, and most importantly, no targets to aim for in the box - so he came inside, played on the shoulder, varied the angles he attacked, linked and played others in, dragged their defenders all over the place and constantly found ways to make space for others - it was so impressive.

I heard what you said last night about his occasionally careless forward running and I did notice that a couple of times too, over eager maybe, and there were obviously the two occasions when he got his positioning a little wrong. The rest of the game he defended excellently though, and gave Eboue a little bit of a lesson in attacking without compromising the defence that you're part of.

Lets not forget he would have been celebrating a goal, too, had it not been for the ****in idiot of a linesman.

I thought he was absolutely outstanding, and showed exactly why he has got to be in the team long term.

 

[outlaw_member]

I think the difference between Clichy and Gibbs is marginal. However, when I judged Gibbs yesterday, it wasn't in comparison to Clichy, but simply what I expect from a fullback. Clichy usually gets 5's from me nowadays, in any case.

 

[DK Gooner]

I agree with Ricky on Gibbs. He is far from the finished article, but his lines of attack are far more intelligent and productive than our other two "attacking" FBs. He was more disciplined than Eboue last night, but from the way we play, I think we need a composed attacking outlet on the flank as a means to provide penetration to our possession. Defensively he is coming along and is not quite as good as Clichy. However the gap in contribution from the two is decreasing to levels where the understudy could surpass the incumbent. Clichy has some very good attributes that should not be discounted and had he been LB when Keane scored that "goal", I would not have blamed him.

As for Denilson, he is looking a lot better and more confident. My only worry is that his style of play is great for recycling the ball when we are the "better" team, but when we are behind and/or are playing against other top teams, he is not the most effective option for us. If he could be a bit more proactive with his finishing, he could be a very dangerous player.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night.

Sometimes I'm really wondering if you've been watching Arsenal these past four years, ricky. It's not even going overboard with the Gibbs praise, it's an outright lie. Of course he has. He even did it last night when he came on.

 

[ricky1985]

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night.

Sometimes I'm really wondering if you've been watching Arsenal these past four years, ricky. It's not even going overboard with the Gibbs praise, it's an outright lie. Of course he has. He even did it last night when he came on.

I strongly disagree.

Clichy has some outstanding strengths and attributes, and despite what I say from time to time, I really do love him - but come on, he does not have a clue what he's doing once he reaches the final third. He can cross the ball pretty well, but in terms of picking a pass, executing a pass, moving to receive a pass or make space for others - he's very poor.

Maybe I'm going crazy, and there certainly are a lot of people who disagree with me, but I see Gibbs as a FAR superior player once he crosses the halfway line, I mean night and day difference between the two.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night.

Sometimes I'm really wondering if you've been watching Arsenal these past four years, ricky. It's not even going overboard with the Gibbs praise, it's an outright lie. Of course he has. He even did it last night when he came on.

I strongly disagree.

ricky, if you truly and honestly disagree with the notion that Clichy has ever looked as good as Gibbs - who had a normal, good performance yesterday - did against Sp**s then I have nothing more to add. Except that I see it as a confirmation of my previous suggestion that you want Clichy gone so badly that you're deliberately discrediting him, while at the same time giving Gibbs an unproportional amount of praise.

I mean, seriously:

He can cross the ball pretty well, but in terms of picking a pass, executing a pass, moving to receive a pass or make space for others - he's very poor.

You've just inverted his strong and weak points. Anyone who's watched a full game of Arsenal first team football would tell you that he's **** at crossing but moves really well both on and off the ball. I can't believe that you of all people would write something so ridiculous.

 

[ricky1985]

ricky, if you truly and honestly disagree with the notion that Clichy has ever looked as good as Gibbs - who had a normal, good performance yesterday - did against Sp**s then I have nothing more to add. Except that I see it as a confirmation of my previous suggestion that you want Clichy gone so badly that you're deliberately discrediting him, while at the same time giving Gibbs an unproportional amount of praise.

You quoted me saying;

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night.

I was specifically talking about the bolded parts, not the performance as a whole. I thought you understood that, but it seems you have misunderstood what I said?

 

[Klaus Daimler]

I'm sorry, but it's effectively the same thing to me, and an equally ridiculous claim.

 

[ricky1985]

I mean, seriously:

He can cross the ball pretty well, but in terms of picking a pass, executing a pass, moving to receive a pass or make space for others - he's very poor.

You've just inverted his strong and weak points. Anyone who's watched a full game of Arsenal first team football would tell you that he's **** at crossing but moves really well both on and off the ball. I can't believe that you of all people would write something so ridiculous.

It's all about opinions, Klaus.

I think given time and space Clichy can cross the ball pretty decently - I, however, consider that a tiny part of playing as a fullback for Arsenal.

Much more important to me is how aware you are of those moving around you, where the space is and how best to exploit it; either a direct run in order to receive the ball or a run to open space for a team mate, how well you can time that run in order to make it most effective, how calm you are when you have a chance to deliver a decisive pass or shoot at goal - in each and every one of those aspects I think Kieran Gibbs comfortably outperforms Gael Clichy.

I have the same level of incredulity to your claims that Clichy excels in these areas or even that he matches Kieran, as you do to my claims to the contrary. Opinions make the world go round.

 

[lagos]

I tend to agree with Klaus, Clichy has been worrying me for a while now, Gibbs I think will ultimately be a better FB than Clichy but right now he is still learning his trade. The only reason Gibbs pops on my radar right now is because Clichy has been off form for quite a while now and not because he is currently better than Clichy was at his peak.

 

[Captain]

Clichy's attacking play is lacklustre and has never been great; both Traore and Gibbs are better in that sense.

 

[sabret00the]

Gibbs will only get better with games. Clichy got games and improved and it was a long almost cringe-worthy road at times. But let's be honest. Clichy isn't great at the tight passing game, hence why our left-sided trio fell apart with the departure of Cole. Clichy also can't cross for ****. Gibbs is great technically which means he passes well and needs to rely on crosses far less often. However, it's clear he lacks experience and will improve.

Also Clichy has been 'off form' for two seasons now, with the odd good game or three every few games. Yesterday when he came on, you could see just how inferior a player he is right now. When on-form however, it's harder to tell because he offers a great attitude that works hard and is such an outlet for our lazier players (Arshavin, Nasri, Diaby).

 

[outlaw_member]

I think you're way off on Kieran BTW, Outlaw.

Clichy has never in his career moved, passed or combined with team mates in forward positions in the way Kieran did last night. Of course he didn't just drive wide on the overlap - the fact that he didn't is part of what makes him so special. There was no space at all on the outside, and most importantly, no targets to aim for in the box - so he came inside, played on the shoulder, varied the angles he attacked, linked and played others in, dragged their defenders all over the place and constantly found ways to make space for others - it was so impressive.

I heard what you said last night about his occasionally careless forward running and I did notice that a couple of times too, over eager maybe, and there were obviously the two occasions when he got his positioning a little wrong. The rest of the game he defended excellently though, and gave Eboue a little bit of a lesson in attacking without compromising the defence that you're part of.

Lets not forget he would have been celebrating a goal, too, had it not been for the ****** idiot of a linesman.

I thought he was absolutely outstanding, and showed exactly why he has got to be in the team long term.

I absolutely agree that Gibbs is better offensively. I felt that was settled as far back as his first few appearances for the club, whilst Clichy has continually regressed since then. Personally, it's just a question of whether Gibbs is better defensively, and the answer for now, is no. The problem I have is that Gibbs makes defensive mistakes almost every time he plays and can be overzealous with his forward running, which is why his offensive play does not trump it for me, just yet.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

Fabianski 5
.....and that's only down to me still being in good mood

Eboue 6
Was sometimes involved when we attacked, but on the only occasions spuds have been dangerous in the first half, their attacks came from his side, where he left too much space. Solid second half.
Djourou 6
Looked somehow shaky and made some schoolboy errors. I hope that's down to him lacking matchday experience.
Kos 8
What shall I say, only one short word: Awesome
Gibbs 7
Solid game, he gets closer and closer to getting that spot. Shame that he got injured.

Denilson 6.5
Solid game too, typical Denilson stuff. Nothing great in terms of passing forward, but solid at what he was doing.
Jacky 7.5
Good performance from him, controlled our and their midfield although getting kicked time in time out. Exciting prospect, exciting player.
Lansbury 7
Decent first important game from him. Should have gotten a pen early on, but scored the lead after a great pass by Jacky. Overall a good performance, much better than I had expected him to.

Nasri 7
Had quite a similar game to that against Sunderland. Good second half and two ice-cold converted penalties from him.
Suprised to see him speaking English in the PM interview.
Vela 5.5
The role he had to play in yesterday didn't suit him, nor did the deep defending from Spuds. In that role he just needs a high line to become a threat.
Rosicky 6
Wasn't that influental yesterday, but still solid. Taking him off later was the right decision.

Arsh 6.5
Scored a good goal and looked a bit more intrested in this game than in the others before. All in all, a typical Arsh performance.
Chamakh 6.5
Won us the second pen, apart from that as always good link-up play.
Clichy -
Came on too late to make any influence, although the way how he got past Spuds whole right hand side late on, was quite amusing.