Unai Emery: Adios

[isop]

I learnt from the unbeaten run that our defensive organization was poor and our build up play was poor. A few of us said similar, focusing on the tactics rather than merely the results, and were concerned that there were big problems that would catch up with the team. It isn't surprising at all what's happening, now our luck and honeymoon period have run dry, we aren't getting away with it as we were earlier in the season. I'm surprised it took a while for our poor performances and the above stuff I mentioned to be reflected in the results.

It's true that you need to give him time and an extra transfer window or two will help, but he still needs to be judged to some standards, it's not a free-for-all even in a transition season. After half a season you need to see an idea of what he's trying to do and some signs of progress. You can't just blame personnel, yes the squad needs quite a bit of work, but you should be able to better organize a defense and improve your build up play with the squad that we have, which is still top 6 quality.

 

[Makingtrax]

The poor mistakes that defenders made were always put down to Wenger. Now they’re being put down to Emery . . . already!!!

How many more managers before people realise it’s down to the quality of the players that we’ve bought, not the way they’re organised.

Klopp came 8th in his first season, he was the same manager then, with the same skill set he has today. But today he has much better quality players. And the difference is, they have the skill to play the way he wants them to. All those posters on RAWK who said Klopp was a good attacking manager but couldn’t set up a defence we’re talking out of their arses.

 

[teamsoutheast]

I learnt from the unbeaten run that our defensive organization was poor and our build up play was poor. A few of us said similar, focusing on the tactics rather than merely the results, and were concerned that there were big problems that would catch up with the team. It isn't surprising at all what's happening, now our luck and honeymoon period have run dry, we aren't getting away with it as we were earlier in the season. I'm surprised it took a while for our poor performances and the above stuff I mentioned to be reflected in the results.

It's true that you need to give him time and an extra transfer window or two will help, but he still needs to be judged to some standards, it's not a free-for-all even in a transition season. After half a season you need to see an idea of what he's trying to do and some signs of progress. You can't just blame personnel, yes the squad needs quite a bit of work, but you should be able to better organize a defense and improve your build up play with the squad that we have, which is still top 6 quality.

He has tried doing that though by going back to 3 at the back? He knows that we have shipped goals in way too easily hence why he tried to bring more stability in defence playing with 3CB. Unfortunately, this means we lose a little bit of control in midfield. I wonder if he is willing to try a 3-5-2 to see if it brings a little more balance to our game.

 

[Football Manager]

Your belief that top players only need complete freedom is because you too are stuck within the Wenger view of squad building. It simply isn't true that top players don't want to work in a rigid system or don't want to expected hard work for the team. Two of the front 3 from today (Firminho and Mane) fit that discription to a tee. Hell Max Allegri, A-M's dream manager over the summer, has a squad full of them. They are loads of top players out there that have the mentality to work their ass off for the team within the manager's vision. We don't have many here, so now we just need to get them in.

The problem is we have loads of players who were sold on the freedom vision/style Wenger preached, so seeing as those times are over it's hardly surprising some look lost and aren't trusted by Emery and look to be on their way out. (Ramsey and Özil).

Get the players in with the combination of mentality and ability Emery is looking for and this team will go up a level just as Liverpool did once Klopp got his players in and just as City did once Pep got his players in.

I agree.
Guardiola Klopp they all use a rigid system. They play attacking and attractive football too.
I think people here demand instant success. And they are overrating ramsey and Özil.

 

[Red London]

Most of the reason for defeat today and our general shortcomings this season has been our injury crisis and our poor squad. Emery is annoying me a little with the Lacazette situation but his weird decisions recently have been from him trying to sort out our barebone defence.

Have some patience, and see how the season plays out for gods sake. But at the end of the day not enough will change until we buy 1 or 2 very good defenders and a winger. Thats just facts imo.

 

[isop]

The manager and coaching staff have to take some responsibility for the way the team is setup, it's not merely the players and squad cost.

Klopp has changed this season. Ask Liverpool fans on RAWK and even on redcafe. He has become more pragmatic, and seems to pace his teams out with his pressing and attacking to last over a whole season now, rather than getting burnt out fighting on multiple fronts. Liverpool fans will tell you the team has become more solid and conservative at times, balancing it with the blistering attacking quality they have.

Van Dijk and Alisson have definitely helped, but it's not just those 2, it's the approach to defending as a team, plus the addition of some quality.

The players we have can be organized better. We can improve some of them through the transfer window, but the defensive organization we are seeing now cannot merely be excused away by player quality and transfer fee. We can do better with what we have.

There were some stats recently about the clean sheets problem away from home, the goals conceded being a record since 1966, and how we were 14th in the league on the shots allowed list despite being a top 6 team, yes, teams that have weaker players than us and less money can still do better defensively than us.

That is down to organizing the team's defense from front to back, team shape off the ball, individual player positioning, man marking/zonal defending, individual and team pressing, the works. You don't need £500m and 2-3 years in the job to do that.

 

[Makingtrax]

The manager and coaching staff have to take some responsibility for the way the team is setup, it's not merely the players and squad cost.

Klopp has changed this season. Ask Liverpool fans on RAWK and even on redcafe. He has become more pragmatic, and seems to pace his teams out with his pressing and attacking to last over a whole season now, rather than getting burnt out fighting on multiple fronts. Liverpool fans will tell you the team has become more solid and conservative at times, balancing it with the blistering attacking quality they have.

Van Dijk and Alisson have definitely helped, but it's not just those 2, it's the approach to defending as a team, plus the addition of some quality.

The players we have can be organized better. We can improve some of them through the transfer window, but the defensive organization we are seeing now cannot merely be excused away by player quality and transfer fee. We can do better with what we have.

There were some stats recently about the clean sheets problem away from home, the goals conceded being a record since 1966, and how we were 14th in the league on the shots allowed list despite being a top 6 team, yes, teams that have weaker players than us and less money can still do better defensively than us.

That is down to organizing the team's defense from front to back, team shape off the ball, individual player positioning, man marking/zonal defending, individual and team pressing, the works. You don't need £500m and 2-3 years in the job to do that.

For the first goal, Lich should have belted that ball out instead he dinked it into the path of Firmino.

Torreira hanging on to the ball too long for the 2nd and gets caught in possession.

For the 3rd, Kola’s ridiculous overhit pass to Leno, who is forced to thrash it out for a corner . . . which leads to the third goal.

Then Sokratis nibbling at the back of Salah for the penalty.

Then Kola stupidly barges into the back of Lovren for the 2nd penalty.

And there were many other errors that didn’t lead to goals. These are not organisational issues. They are mistakes made by defenders under pressure. Either they are struggling to get used to pace of the prem or they’re inferior quality.

 

[Tony's nose]

For the first goal, Lich should have belted that ball out instead he dinked it into the path of Firmino.

Torreira hanging on to the ball too long for the 2nd and gets caught in possession.

For the 3rd, Kola’s ridiculous overhit pass to Leno, who is forced to thrash it out for a corner . . . which leads to the third goal.

Then Sokratis nibbling at the back of Salah for the penalty.

Then Kola stupidly barges into the back of Lovren for the 2nd penalty.

And there were many other errors that didn’t lead to goals. These are not organisational issues. They are mistakes made by defenders under pressure. Either they are struggling to get used to pace of the prem or they’re inferior quality.

Haven't you posted this already

 

[Fewtch]

I want to know what defensive stability Wenger was talking about a few days ago.

 

[Sanchez11]

I want to know what defensive stability Wenger was talking about a few days ago.

Yes id just like afew clean sheets tbh.

 

[Jae]

Haven't you posted this already

He's not wrong though.

His point (that people seem to be missing over and over again) is that it's individual errors (or lack of quality) that are killing us this season. Emery can't set up the team or coach people to stop them doing this.

Said it before and I'll say it again. You can't polish a turd, although you can roll it in glitter. But at the end of the day it'll never be anything else other than turd. Unfortunately for us, this analogy applies to two thirds of our team.

 

[bingobob]

Emery is in a situation not of his own making. Weve accumulated a lot of players that are not good enough for the level we aim to be. Some have improved but when starting from a low baseline that is not difficult.

There are 3 players taking up about 700k pw in wages 2 that the manager does not fancy to start week in week out and 1 that isn't good enough. Özil, Lacazette and Myhitaryan. We need to be actively punting these players and bring in improvements or players that the manager can trust. That's before we look at our defence which needs rebuilding.

 

[progman07]

The poor mistakes that defenders made were always put down to Wenger. Now they’re being put down to Emery . . . already!!!

How many more managers before people realise it’s down to the quality of the players that we’ve bought, not the way they’re organised.

Klopp came 8th in his first season, he was the same manager then, with the same skill set he has today. But today he has much better quality players. And the difference is, they have the skill to play the way he wants them to. All those posters on RAWK who said Klopp was a good attacking manager but couldn’t set up a defence we’re talking out of their arses.

50% of it is definitely the lack of quality, you cannot coach someone like Mustafi to be a world class defender, or cannot tell Lichsteiner to run faster. But we conceded more goals than Crystal Palace, Brighton and Newcastle, even though these teams probably had less possession than us. Surely our defenders are not worse than theirs, but something in the coaching is not right?

For example, this 3 centre backs formula has looked terrible for us in the last 2 years, our players do not know how to play to its strengths, no idea of the positioning or roles, and the result is lots of goals conceded, while having less control higher up on the pitch.

 

[MustOezil]

The poor mistakes that defenders made were always put down to Wenger. Now they’re being put down to Emery . . . already!!!

How many more managers before people realise it’s down to the quality of the players that we’ve bought, not the way they’re organised.

Klopp came 8th in his first season, he was the same manager then, with the same skill set he has today. But today he has much better quality players. And the difference is, they have the skill to play the way he wants them to. All those posters on RAWK who said Klopp was a good attacking manager but couldn’t set up a defence we’re talking out of their arses.

Wenger tried to sell Mustafi after a season, that says it all to me.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

So much bullshit by so many Arsenal fans.

Emery has the defence worse

Fact check: We're on course to concede nearly the same as last year. We had Kos for the start of the year too

Emery has us worse points wise

Fact Check: We're still on course to be 10 points better off at the very least

Emery should have us top four

Fact Check: Bar one season, we have been losing points every year. That 2nd was with 71 points, Emery has us on course for more

Emery WANTS WORKERS AND HATES FLAIR AND TALENT AND IS EVIL DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL

Fact Check: WHERE THE **** DID THIS ONE EVEN COME FROM?

 

[Lidl_Reed]

50% of it is definitely the lack of quality, you cannot coach someone like Mustafi to be a world class defender, or cannot tell Lichsteiner to run faster. But we conceded more goals than Crystal Palace, Brighton and Newcastle, even though these teams probably had less possession than us. Surely our defenders are not worse than theirs, but something in the coaching is not right?

For example, this 3 centre backs formula has looked terrible for us in the last 2 years, our players do not know how to play to its strengths, no idea of the positioning or roles, and the result is lots of goals conceded, while having less control higher up on the pitch.

We're also scoring more goals than those teams.

I also do disagree to some extent. Newcastle/Brighton's first choice defence is on par with Lichsteiner at RB, and Kos/Xhaka at CB.

Kos is nowhere near match fit right now. I do think Mustafi-Sokratis has looked solid most of the time

 

[Furious]

Most of the reason for defeat today and our general shortcomings this season has been our injury crisis and our poor squad.

Bollocks.

Emery doing stupid **** has been a major reason for our shortcomings.

Just take a look at the last two games alone for some mindboggling stupidity.

Goes defensive against Brighton with 3 DM's, plays a finished Lichtensteiner instead of Ainsley, takes off two of our best offensive players before the hour mark and we manage 1 shot all second half.

Yesterday, against the best front 3 in the league leaves us wide open in midfield, plays Ramsey literally as striker, plays the finished Lichtensteiner again in a back four... if Kos was available then why the hell not play 5 at the back and Ainsley at wingback?

He has cost us dearly himself. The bloke has managed to win one first half all season ffs.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

People forgetting we had 63 points last season.

Emery hasn't exactly started with a top four base

 

[MustOezil]

So much bullshit by so many Arsenal fans.

Emery has the defence worse

Fact check: We're on course to concede nearly the same as last year. We had Kos for the start of the year too

Emery has us worse points wise

Fact Check: We're still on course to be 10 points better off at the very least

Emery should have us top four

Fact Check: Bar one season, we have been losing points every year. That 2nd was with 71 points, Emery has us on course for more

Emery WANTS WORKERS AND HATES FLAIR AND TALENT AND IS EVIL DEFENSIVE FOOTBALL

Fact Check: WHERE THE **** DID THIS ONE EVEN COME FROM?

Sorry. Disagree. You're cherry picking points that arent necessarily true without context. For example yur argument about defensive record:

1. This year we have a new GK, added Sokratis and had a more mature and solid Holding in the beginning. Why are we shipping in more goals? **** tactics. The whole tale of defending as a team is nowhere to be seen.

Emery's lucky he inherited Auba and Laca othereise we would be in deep **** with our away record.

 

[Lidl_Reed]

Sorry. Disagree. You're cherry picking points that arent necessarily true without context. For example yur argument about defensive record:

1. This year we have a new GK, added Sokratis and had a more mature and solid Holding in the beginning. Why are we shipping in more goals? **** tactics. The whole tale of defending as a team is nowhere to be seen.

Emery's lucky he inherited Auba and Laca othereise we would be in deep **** with our away record.

We added Sokratis and lost Koscielny. I think it's fair to say that evens it out in that department. Holding has been lost to an ACL. Before this game against Liverpool, we had conceded less than we had last year at the same stage.