William Saliba: 2019/20 Performances

[Rex Stone]

With Ligue 1 getting cancelled it seems Saliba has played his last game for St Etienne.

 

[TromsoGooner]

Injuries and corona meant he only played 10-15 games I believe. Ideally you`d want him to come to us with at least 20+ games under his belt.

 

[Tom349]

So much rubbish being posted on this site in the last month I feel the need to express just how good this kid is. Make no mistake he is going to walk into the side next season and be our best defender, he is that good.

Firstly lets look at his impact for St. Etienne. In the 12 games he has played this season they have conceded 15 goals at a rate of 1.25 goals conceded a game. In the 16 games he has missed they have conceded 30 goals, a rate of 1.875 a game. In the games he has played their 5 points better of with him in the team than out of the team, although this is a subjective stat given it doesn't factor in strength of opposition. Essentially the biggest issue for St. Etienne with Saliba in the team has been scoring goals with them scoring a measly 10 in the 12 games Saliba featured in for league games.

The above can be considered subjective, the following can't. Saliba has featured 36 times for St. Etienne and has picked a total of 2 yellow cards. Committed a total of 3 errors leading to an opposition shot and tw0 penalties. He has committed 20 fouls and wins 70% of his aerial duels. He doesn't make a heap of tackles, clearances or interceptions per game mostly because he doesn't have to as he has already dealt with the danger before it got to that point.

Fans are asking for a calming presence at the back and someone who can provide stability well we don't need to be looking for it as we already have it. Saliba is our answer. Thats not to say we don't need someone else beside him with similar qualities but in terms of having someone who can provide a calming presence, Saliba is just that.

 

[GDeep™]

So much rubbish being posted on this site in the last month I feel the need to express just how good this kid is. Make no mistake he is going to walk into the side next season and be our best defender, he is that good.

Firstly lets look at his impact for St. Etienne. In the 12 games he has played this season they have conceded 15 goals at a rate of 1.25 goals conceded a game. In the 16 games he has missed they have conceded 30 goals, a rate of 1.875 a game. In the games he has played their 5 points better of with him in the team than out of the team, although this is a subjective stat given it doesn't factor in strength of opposition. Essentially the biggest issue for St. Etienne with Saliba in the team has been scoring goals with them scoring a measly 10 in the 12 games Saliba featured in for league games.

The above can be considered subjective, the following can't. Saliba has featured 36 times for St. Etienne and has picked a total of 2 yellow cards. Committed a total of 3 errors leading to an opposition shot and tw0 penalties. He has committed 20 fouls and wins 70% of his aerial duels. He doesn't make a heap of tackles, clearances or interceptions per game mostly because he doesn't have to as he has already dealt with the danger before it got to that point.

Fans are asking for a calming presence at the back and someone who can provide stability well we don't need to be looking for it as we already have it. Saliba is our answer. Thats not to say we don't need someone else beside him with similar qualities but in terms of having someone who can provide a calming presence, Saliba is just that.

He’s just turned 19, coming into a much stronger league he’ll need a few years to adapt and adjust. Young CB’s rarely flourish in the premiership. John Terry is the only one that comes to mind, Rio was making mistakes at Leeds, he was early 20’s.

 

[Tom349]

He’s just turned 19, coming into a much stronger league he’ll need a few years to adapt and adjust. Young CB’s rarely flourish in the premiership. John Terry is the only one that comes to mind, Rio was making mistakes at Leeds, he was early 20’s.

Might be a stronger league but the profile of players he has faced in ligue 1 to the premier league isn't going to change significantly. The pace and power of the two leagues are the most similar between any league and is why Ligue 1 is such a breeding ground for premier league clubs.

We need to remove this idiotic notion that defenders can't make mistakes, all players across all positions make mistakes regardless of how good they're. Its how the react to the mistakes and deal with situations they find themselves in after making mistakes which is the important part. Arsenal fans are become to accustomed to the likes of Sokratis, Mustafi and Vermalean type of defenders who when they make mistakes immediately compounded them by trying to make up for them. Saliba gave away a penalty vs Moncao in their cup competition and yet finished the game MotM because he didn't let the moment get to him. Thats the difference, it didn't matter what age he was or how much experience he did or didn't have, he kept his head and helped his team win an important game.

In any case are you trying to tell me you don't think at 20 year old Rio wouldn't improve or be good enough for this current Arsenal team and shouldn't be the level to aspire to?

 

[14Henry]

Might be a stronger league but the profile of players he has faced in ligue 1 to the premier league isn't going to change significantly. The pace and power of the two leagues are the most similar between any league and is why Ligue 1 is such a breeding ground for premier league clubs.

We need to remove this idiotic notion that defenders can't make mistakes, all players across all positions make mistakes regardless of how good they're. Its how the react to the mistakes and deal with situations they find themselves in after making mistakes which is the important part. Arsenal fans are become to accustomed to the likes of Sokratis, Mustafi and Vermalean type of defenders who when they make mistakes immediately compounded them by trying to make up for them. Saliba gave away a penalty vs Moncao in their cup competition and yet finished the game MotM because he didn't let the moment get to him. Thats the difference, it didn't matter what age he was or how much experience he did or didn't have, he kept his head and helped his team win an important game.

In any case are you trying to tell me you don't think at 20 year old Rio wouldn't improve or be good enough for this current Arsenal team and shouldn't be the level to aspire to?

The league intensity is higher in the PL. The opposing teams and players much better. The pressure in the PL much greater.

Who was the last 19 year old defender to walk into the premier league from a foreign league and hit the ground running?

 

[OnlyOne]

He'll be an immense talent for sure, but we'll probably see Luiz and Mari as our starting CB next season, unless we bring in an elite defender.

 

[GDeep™]

In any case are you trying to tell me you don't think at 20 year old Rio wouldn't improve or be good enough for this current Arsenal team and shouldn't be the level to aspire to?

Not saying that. Just think we shouldn’t get too critical if Saliba has teething problems, you can say, which he will. He’s physically gifted and naturally composed which puts him in good stead straight away.

Similar to Pepe, in the summer he was a great attacker who was going to come here and destroy the league alongside Auba etc, but after 6 months in a new league and country you have Arsenal fans comparing him to Gervinho ffs.

 

[Tom349]

Not saying that. Just think we shouldn’t get too critical if Saliba has teething problems, you can say, which he will. He’s physically gifted and naturally composed which puts him in good stead straight away.

Similar to Pepe, in the summer he was a great attacker who was going to come here and destroy the league alongside Auba etc, but after 6 months in a new league and country you have Arsenal fans comparing him to Gervinho ffs.

I think we need to distinguish the types of mistakes which are tolerable and which are not, as all players make mistakes, for instance Ramos is considered one of the best CB's over the last decade yet he has made plenty of mistakes in that time. In Ramos case he can be considered to be too rash and subsequently pick up a lot of cards (160 yellows and 22 reds in his time with Madrid), in spite of that he plays under control when defending in dangerous situations. Another example could be Lewis Dunk who I would actually love to partner Saliba with. Dunk doesn't do a lot wrong yet has scored more own goals than most defenders. I would consider an own goal to be mistake by the defender more often than not but I could live with Dunk scoring 1 or 2 own goals a season much like I could put with Ramos cards as although they make mistakes what they bring more than makes up for it.

Whereas someone like Mustafi or Sokratis they could make any type of big mistake whether that be carded, concede a penalty or score an own goal but it's the way they defend which is the problem. They dive into challenges when they should be controlling the space the attacker has to run into, they get beaten in the air against bigger opponents, they go to ground instead of keeping their feet. I could go on but the point Im making is they make mistakes in the way they choose to defend which is issue and not the fact that some of their mistakes lead to the opposition scoring or having some kind of advantage.

Which brings me to Saliba, yes he will make mistakes whether it be concede a penalty or be red carded or score an own goal but these mistakes are acceptable. But the evidence he has shown at St. Etienne is he won't make the mistakes as often as Mustafi and Sokratis do with the way they defend.

Yes life won't be as easy for Saliba in the premier league as has been in Ligue 1 but if Saliba was 23 and playing for Lyon and has showed the same promise and performances than no one would be questioning whether he is good enough or that he is too young to be able to be a starting 11 player for us. The evidence we have suggest that is absolutely good enough for us right now, there isn't enough to suggest he can have Virgil Van Djik like influence but its enough to suggest he is better than our current options and the level we should be aspiring to get with the intention that his level improves to level of a Van Djik.

Lastly I don't find the Pepe comparison a good one. Yes Pepe has failed to produce to the level we had expected him when signing but to a certain degree that is due to a lack of game time and more importantly complete chaos with managerial changes and a lack of connection within the team due to our horrible midfield. But the reason the comparison is poor is despite Pepe's failure to produce G/A he has been a complete handful for opposing teams with many defenders struggling against him and managers being forced to double and triple team him. If Saliba were to be the defensive version of Pepe than you would be saying he was able to keep his opponent in check but the defenders around him were incompetent.

 

[Jury]

I think we need to distinguish the types of mistakes which are tolerable and which are not, as all players make mistakes, for instance Ramos is considered one of the best CB's over the last decade yet he has made plenty of mistakes in that time. In Ramos case he can be considered to be too rash and subsequently pick up a lot of cards (160 yellows and 22 reds in his time with Madrid), in spite of that he plays under control when defending in dangerous situations. Another example could be Lewis Dunk who I would actually love to partner Saliba with. Dunk doesn't do a lot wrong yet has scored more own goals than most defenders. I would consider an own goal to be mistake by the defender more often than not but I could live with Dunk scoring 1 or 2 own goals a season much like I could put with Ramos cards as although they make mistakes what they bring more than makes up for it.

Whereas someone like Mustafi or Sokratis they could make any type of big mistake whether that be carded, concede a penalty or score an own goal but it's the way they defend which is the problem. They dive into challenges when they should be controlling the space the attacker has to run into, they get beaten in the air against bigger opponents, they go to ground instead of keeping their feet. I could go on but the point Im making is they make mistakes in the way they choose to defend which is issue and not the fact that some of their mistakes lead to the opposition scoring or having some kind of advantage.

Which brings me to Saliba, yes he will make mistakes whether it be concede a penalty or be red carded or score an own goal but these mistakes are acceptable. But the evidence he has shown at St. Etienne is he won't make the mistakes as often as Mustafi and Sokratis do with the way they defend.

Yes life won't be as easy for Saliba in the premier league as has been in Ligue 1 but if Saliba was 23 and playing for Lyon and has showed the same promise and performances than no one would be questioning whether he is good enough or that he is too young to be able to be a starting 11 player for us. The evidence we have suggest that is absolutely good enough for us right now, there isn't enough to suggest he can have Virgil Van Djik like influence but its enough to suggest he is better than our current options and the level we should be aspiring to get with the intention that his level improves to level of a Van Djik.

Lastly I don't find the Pepe comparison a good one. Yes Pepe has failed to produce to the level we had expected him when signing but to a certain degree that is due to a lack of game time and more importantly complete chaos with managerial changes and a lack of connection within the team due to our horrible midfield. But the reason the comparison is poor is despite Pepe's failure to produce G/A he has been a complete handful for opposing teams with many defenders struggling against him and managers being forced to double and triple team him. If Saliba were to be the defensive version of Pepe than you would be saying he was able to keep his opponent in check but the defenders around him were incompetent.

That was a good read. Judging defenders by the types of errors they make and in what situations is an interesting one. As much as I liked Kos, he may have fallen short on that criteria.

 

[Tom349]

That was a good read. Judging defenders by the types of errors they make and in what situations is an interesting one. As much as I liked Kos, he may have fallen short on that criteria.

Kos was technically flawed in many ways as a defender but relied on a level of timing when making a lunging tackle or interception and pace that very few defenders have which made up for his short comings. Per was kind of the exact opposite.

 

[Maybe]

Always great to see some decent logic on AM.
We can't rely on a young CB who looks impressive for his age, so we will still focus on Luiz or someone else who is making critical mistakes 2-3 times per game, costing us goals and points.
I like to think the opposite, not much can go wrong if we start Saliba every week. Think it can't be worse than playing CB's we currently have.
If Saliba is half a player what we think he is, he will learn from mistakes and improve with time, and with Luiz/Mustafi/Sokratis there is no hope now or later.

This relates to all underperforming seniors, I don't care what they were 5 years ago. If they can't perform significantly better than a teenager, then I'm happy to see them on the bench and play a younger player.

This approach when young players make mistakes and managers/fans punish them instantly needs to stop asap, especially after the last couple of years and some of the worst defending/attacking we've witnessed as Arsenal fans.

 

[Corbulo]

I wouldn't trust this Algerian fella straight away. It's a huge step and a difficult spot to play. I can't really get excited at the moment about a kid from the streets of Bondy who's in his teens and I haven't seen play on a regular basis.

Having said that if we want to win the league we need to be assembling players like him. He has all the tools to lead our backline just like Smain Lamari did.

Saliba could end up being our best post-Wenger signing. In fact I feel Wenger would be delighted too.

 

[pacstud]

Saliba being the best defender on our team is not a bold statement.

It's like me saying I'm the most out of shape guy in my household.

 

[Mitch]

Surley Saliba can't be any worse than Luiz or Mustafi? We should go with Saliba and Mari, two big and ball playing CBs.

Sokratis is a better CB than either Luiz and Mustafi but I think we will need him to continue at RB until Chambers is fit. Also depends if we sign Cedric permanently.

 

[GDeep™]

Luiz is rated on AM, unbelievable. Guy is horrendous and makes mistakes every game, under Emery he was a car crash.

We all watch the games, Luiz makes mistakes every game, multiple mistakes too.

 

[truth_hurts]

Tom349, great posting. It's always great to hear from fans who watch a player in depth. Seems as though Salibah has made a noticeable impact at St. Ettiene.

Will be great to have him as an option.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

De Ligt at Juve has loads of mistakes this season, not because he's not any good because he's young and young CB's cost you goals and points no matter how big a talent they are and De Ligt is the best young defender on the planet. If Saliba is a regular starter he'll cost us goals and points too, again not because he's not good or isn't an exceptional talent but because he's young. The PL can be a huge shock to young players coming in and they need time to adjust.

The only thing is our CB option are so poor it's almost worth sticking with Saliba through his mistakes as he'll come out of it a better player hopefully.

I know how these things work tho, he'll make mistakes and he'll be crucified, it happens so often with young players here. People will start questioning if he's even that good and ****e like that. It's so predictable. This is why me and @GDeep™ are pointing this stuff out so yous won't be surprised when the inevitable happens. It's just something we'll have to accept.

 

[OnlyOne]

@Tom349 with some beautiful posting. Get yourself a display pic and become a regular.

 

[Tourbillion]

De Ligt at Juve has loads of mistakes this season, not because he's not any good because he's young and young CB's cost you goals and points no matter how big a talent they are and De Ligt is the best young defender on the planet. If Saliba is a regular starter he'll cost us goals and points too, again not because he's not good or isn't an exceptional talent but because he's young. The PL can be a huge shock to young players coming in and they need time to adjust.

The only thing is our CB option are so poor it's almost worth sticking with Saliba through his mistakes as he'll come out of it a better player hopefully.

I know how these things work tho, he'll make mistakes and he'll be crucified, it happens so often with young players here. People will start questioning if he's even that good and ****e like that. It's so predictable. This is why me and @GDeep™ are pointing this stuff out so yous won't be surprised when the inevitable happens. It's just something we'll have to accept.

Could damage him irreparably - see Senderos 15 years ago.