Premier League 2019/20: Gameweek 4

[Iceman10]

What a joke you are, ****ting on Benteke, when you got 30M(?) for him from Palace, yet you gloat about you spending less than those teams.

Couldn't make it up :rofl: :Celebration:

I get the banter with a Liverpool fan here, but have to be honest, when their net spend was less than ours, and when one looks at how our 30m+ buys have worked out, this isn't pretty when it comes to Arsenal, and why we've fallen behind....

 

[Furious]

I get the banter with a Liverpool fan here, but have to be honest, when their net spend was less than ours, and when one looks at how our 30m+ buys have worked out, this isn't pretty when it comes to Arsenal, and why we've fallen behind....

I'm still not sure why you keep going with this net spend stuff, and including us into the matter.

A poster said that Klopp could do it without money or something similar. Going by what we've seen at Liverpool, that's not true. Before he spent ridiculous money, he was on par with the usual suspects for top 4.

 

[Brolin]

I agree. It's good business by Liverpool to fetch as much as they did for Coutinho, but it doesn't change the fact they've spent significant money to get where they are. Klopp was floundering during the start of his tenure with Liverpool, which people like to forget. Its really not a knock on Klopp or Liverpool, as modern football requires serious investment to compete at the top level, but let's also not pretend Klopp or Liverpool have done this the old fashioned way.

I would call that sustained improvement. What Klopp has done up until now is consistently improve the players at his disposal. Every single player under him, bar Karius, has improved. And that had a knock on effect. It allowed us to sell players like Couthino, Sakho etc. for over the top fees. The fact that we recruited so much on player sales has a lot to do with our manager.
Secondly, while I’d agree our defense would never have been as good had we not signed VVD and Alisson, he did form the best full back partnership in world football for a mere 8 mil quid, he did recruit Matip on a free. Klopp should also be given credit for identifying Van Dijk and Alisson as the game changers they turned out to be. Not many managers would have waited as long as him(waited a year for Alisson and 6 months for Van Dijk) until the perfect fits became available.
Then there’s the fact that our front 3 was recruited for a combined 100 mill and is probably worth 4 times that.

 

[Iceman10]

I'm still not sure why you keep going with this net spend stuff, and including us into the matter.

A poster said that Klopp could do it without money or something similar. Going by what we've seen at Liverpool, that's not true. Before he spent ridiculous money, he was on par with the usual suspects for top 4.

There is a good discussion to be had on this, maybe after thinking through more. The truth probably lies somewhere in between what the two of us are saying. For example, Arsenal made big money from sales of Anelka, Overmars, and some other players. Maybe some of that ended up going into our stadium, but if we were not moving into a new stadium at the time wouldn't our fans be angry at us not spending money from the big sales? Didn't Spuds spend on around 5 players, 20-30m each after the sale of Bale?

This is all partly because I see good club management as including getting maximum value from assets, maintaining control over wage bill, contract management, etc. These are all important parts of management, and obviously where Liverpool has done a much better job that us. Doing all of that other stuff well means raw spend on transfers is not that big when it comes to affordability. Money available for buys is seen as a reward for good management, esp. when comparing clubs with similar financials, i.e. Arsenal vs. Liverpool and Sp**s, not Arsenal vs. United and City.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Do you also think that Matip,Robertson,Alexandre Arnold and almost whole Liverpool's midfield would be so good under some other manager ?

Most of them would be brilliant for Pep too.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Starting to doubt that this Brolin bum came here in peace. Just like another fans from other teams on here. Just here to brag and troll.

 

[Aevi]

@Aevi and @Trilly laughing at me week one for putting Haller and KDB in my fantasy team.

Where you at boys?

I didn't laugh at you for those, did I? I have them too anyways

 

[Notorious Big]

Most of them would be brilliant for Pep too.

They probably would,but Klopp just did "bigger" things in his clubs than Pep.In terms of titles maybe no,but as a whole club i would say yes.

 

[Sanchez11]

I can't support City anymore to win the title, with all their oil money. That's the reason other clubs can't challenge for the title anymore.

3 in a row would be horrible for the league. I don't want Liverpool to win games too, but if they play another fantastic season, they fully deserve it.

What?? Fvck pool man if they won it id have to emigrate!!

 

[Brolin]

Starting to doubt that this Brolin bum came here in peace. Just like another fans from other teams on here. Just here to brag and troll.

Well “easily triggered” definitely applies to you by the looks of things.
I’m not bragging at all, just challenging the narrative that Klopp is a cheque book manager

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Well “easily triggered” definitely applies to you by the looks of things.
I’m not bragging at all, just challenging the narrative that Klopp is a cheque book manager

Disagree. He has spent well and has been spending ever since he joined you bar last summer.

What was it, 1 point ahead of us before he admit he couldn't coach a defense and made record fee for defender in Van Djik and spent insane money on GK.

But who cares anyway anymore. That's how you win trophies these days.

 

[Furious]

Disagree. He has spent well and has been spending ever since he joined you bar last summer.

What was it, 1 point ahead of us before he admit he couldn't coach a defense and made record fee for defender in Van Djik and spent insane money on GK.

But who cares anyway anymore. That's how you win trophies these days.

Spot on.

Before FSG injected 100M into their squad and they spent asinine money on the likes of Keita, van Dijk, Allison, Fabinho, etc. Klopp had seasons with 60, 76, and 75 points. On par with the usual top 4 teams.

 

[Tourbillion]

Why are Liverpool able to play that front three for 99% of games for years in a row?

Fishy business.

 

[Uncle Good-Advice]

In my opinion there's no doubt Klopp is a great manager in a way Wenger was. I mean that it's quite possible that most of the players that Liverpool will sell in the future will never play as good as they do at LFC. It's up to manager to pick up right pieces to fit into his system, he probably identified targets from the beginning (no plans B or C), probably overpaid for them because of it but got results.

However several things went their way, some of which was pointed by other posters:
- aforementioned cash injection
- they struck jackpot with Coutinho, Barca had to spend money received for Neymar for fiscal reasons which in result allowed Liverpool to restructure much quicker (at least a season)
- some players like Salah exploded beyond wildest expectations

Is Klopp a chequebook manager? I don't think so. Was all that possible without spending crazy money? Again, I don't think so. Net spend is just a statistical figure, the amount of money at the disposal is the most important thing. When you have a competent person who is spending it then it's obvious that the more he has at his disposal the better. Then it's up to the people that control sales to provide him as much money as possible which they did very well.

On the other side it's debatable whether this model is going to be successful long-term. We've seen it with Sp**s, due to financial constraints they didn't spend at all last year and now it's starting to look like a huge mess. LFC may face similar problems. I don't know exactly their wage bill but surely they're not paying crazy money, that can't last. There's talk about stadium expansion that would be costly as well. General improvement of quality in the league may also result in players' fatigue because of their pressing style.

All in all things happen very quickly in football as we know it very well.

 

[Brolin]

Spot on.

Before FSG injected 100M into their squad and they spent asinine money on the likes of Keita, van Dijk, Allison, Fabinho, etc. Klopp had seasons with 60, 76, and 75 points. On par with the usual top 4 teams.

FSG didn’t inject $h!t. We bought Van Dijk and Alisson by selling Couthino. FSG haven’t given us a penny for transfers. Don’t believe me? Check the books we’ve published. We have made a net profit of 20 mil, 39 mil and 120 mil from 2016 to 2018. 2019’s books won’t be much different either.
Klopp inherited a side in 12th, a side that won 23 points in their last 22 games under Rodgers. We followed that up by making a transfer profit the following season, due to us not making the Champions league. Only Mane and Wijnaldum was signings of significance in that window, for a combined 50 mil at that, and we improved by 16 points, and qualified for the Champions league.
He then used the money we received from the Champions league as well as the sale from Couthino to reinvest in the squad.
This notion that he is a cheque book manager is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Good management got us where we are today

 

[Brolin]

In my opinion there's no doubt Klopp is a great manager in a way Wenger was. I mean that it's quite possible that most of the players that Liverpool will sell in the future will never play as good as they do at LFC. It's up to manager to pick up right pieces to fit into his system, he probably identified targets from the beginning (no plans B or C), probably overpaid for them because of it but got results.

However several things went their way, some of which was pointed by other posters:
- aforementioned cash injection
- they struck jackpot with Coutinho, Barca had to spend money received for Neymar for fiscal reasons which in result allowed Liverpool to restructure much quicker (at least a season)
- some players like Salah exploded beyond wildest expectations

Is Klopp a chequebook manager? I don't think so. Was all that possible without spending crazy money? Again, I don't think so. Net spend is just a statistical figure, the amount of money at the disposal is the most important thing. When you have a competent person who is spending it then it's obvious that the more he has at his disposal the better. Then it's up to the people that control sales to provide him as much money as possible which they did very well.

On the other side it's debatable whether this model is going to be successful long-term. We've seen it with Sp**s, due to financial constraints they didn't spend at all last year and now it's starting to look like a huge mess. LFC may face similar problems. I don't know exactly their wage bill but surely they're not paying crazy money, that can't last. There's talk about stadium expansion that would be costly as well. General improvement of quality in the league may also result in players' fatigue because of their pressing style.

All in all things happen very quickly in football as we know it very well.

Our wage bill is the third highest in the league. We just have an excellent wage structure. No player is being paid extravagant wages undeservedly, like Özil at Arsenal, or just about everything that moves at United.
The players are paid in clear order of importance. Here is some of the figures I know of:
Salah-220 grand
Van Dijk-200 grand
Firmino-180 grand
Mane-170 grand
Alisson-150 grand
Henderson/Fabinho/Ox/Milner/Keita/ Wijnaldum/Matip/Robertson- around 100-130 grand

We’ve established a clear order, and that will consistently increase as our revenue does. Already rumors going around that Van Dijk and Salah is in for huge wage increases within the next year, others will follow suit.

As for our lack of spending in the summer, that was more down to Klopp not wanting investment instead of us not having any money. Pearce, Reddy and Joyce all stated we had a 100 mil budget if Klopp needed it. That money will not disappear either. It will remain in the club and as a result will give us a massive net profit for the 19-20 financial period. Meaning, the budget next summer could be significant.

Liverpool is in line for the biggest kit deal in the league next summer, with a 80 mil quid a year deal with Nike rumored. That could take our commercial revenue above United’s for the time being.

I know a lot of people are waiting for our down fall, but I won’t hold my breath if I was you. FSG, Klopp, Edwards & co is setting us up for sustainable success.

 

[Trilly]

@Aevi and @Trilly laughing at me week one for putting Haller and KDB in my fantasy team.

Where you at boys?

I’ve had KDB since week one myself, fair play on Haller lad. Fair play.

 

[Furious]

FSG didn’t inject $h!t. We bought Van Dijk and Alisson by selling Couthino. FSG haven’t given us a penny for transfers. Don’t believe me? Check the books we’ve published. We have made a net profit of 20 mil, 39 mil and 120 mil from 2016 to 2018. 2019’s books won’t be much different either.
Klopp inherited a side in 12th, a side that won 23 points in their last 22 games under Rodgers. We followed that up by making a transfer profit the following season, due to us not making the Champions league. Only Mane and Wijnaldum was signings of significance in that window, for a combined 50 mil at that, and we improved by 16 points, and qualified for the Champions league.
He then used the money we received from the Champions league as well as the sale from Couthino to reinvest in the squad.
This notion that he is a cheque book manager is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Good management got us where we are today

Rarely have I seen someone know so little about their own club - either it's you're clueless or just in denial.

FSG didn’t inject $h!t.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/loan-new-main-stand-not-12711821

Owe 99M according to the Guardian article, after they injected 110M for the stadium expansion for extremely low interest rates.

Also, here are some numbers, which show that owners clearly have helped you out for years, 257M since 2007, don't know whether those 110M are included or not, but a significant amount:

Our wage bill is the third highest in the league.

Wrong, again.

2nd highest. Numbers from the 17/18 season - you've since signed Keita, Fabinho, Allison, and had Van Dijk for a full season. Now, most of these guys and others will command increases, your wage bill is skyrocketing.

Run along kid, you're not fooling anyone.

 

[Brolin]

Rarely have I seen someone know so little about their own club - either it's you're clueless or just in denial.




https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/loan-new-main-stand-not-12711821

Owe 99M according to the Guardian article, after they injected 110M for the stadium expansion for extremely low interest rates.

Also, here are some numbers, which show that owners clearly have helped you out for years, 257M since 2007, don't know whether those 110M are included or not, but a significant amount:





Wrong, again.

2nd highest. Numbers from the 17/18 season - you've since signed Keita, Fabinho, Allison, and had Van Dijk for a full season. Now, most of these guys and others will command increases, your wage bill is skyrocketing.

Run along kid, you're not fooling anyone.

We’re talking about transfers here ffs, stand expansions and writing off debt was not in question. FSG have given us a 100 mil interest free loan for the main stand expansion, they have also written off considerable debt left by the cowboys, and will fund the Anfield Road end expansion and new training ground complex with interest free loans as well. That I’m not disputing.

But our transfers is funded by our own cash operations. That is a fact. That mythical 100 mil you came up with that was apparently injected into the club for transfers was shoveled out of your arsehole.

My bad, 2nd highest wage bill I was out by 4 mil, f ing hang me. That just strengthens my point that we can compete with big wages though...so really don’t know why you had to bring that up.

I study our club accounts in detail every year pal. You’re fighting a losing battle here.

 

[Furious]

We’re talking about transfers here ffs, stand expansions and writing off debt was not in question. FSG have given us a 100 mil interest free loan for the main stand expansion, they have also written off considerable debt left by the cowboys, and will fund the Anfield Road end expansion and new training ground complex with interest free loans as well. That I’m not disputing.

But our transfers is funded by our own cash operations. That is a fact. That mythical 100 mil you came up with that was apparently injected into the club for transfers was shoveled out of your arsehole.

My bad, 2nd highest wage bill I was out by 4 mil, f ing hang me. That just strengthens my point that we can compete with big wages though...so really don’t know why you had to bring that up.

I study our club accounts in detail every year pal. You’re fighting a losing battle here.

If it wasn't for FSG injecting money into your club, you'd have to use your transfer money for the stadium expansion instead, you thick scousing *****.