David Ospina: On Loan to Napoli

[Gunngstar]

Im so unbelievably bored of have doubts over our goalkeepers. Can we for once just have a keeper that doesn't have a bunch of question marks over him?

That's the problem in football, a player has got to convice the fans.. If a player keeps making mistakes or not putting on the performances then what do you expect.. De Gea has been under so much scrutiny until this season.. His performances are what is backing him..

That's why Sanchez has been accepted straight away even if he still needs to improve in other of departments. That's why Özil, De Maria etc still have question marks..

 

[Gunngstar]

Yeah stats only paint part of the picture, but he has certainly been up there with the best in the league.

I keep on saying it, but it's very important, people have to realise it's Ospina's first season in the league, keepers will generally be more comfortable in there second season, I'm happy with him for the time being, I'm sure we will have a closer look in preseason any way.

I don't know why people are so into stats.. I have never been into them, what I have been doing in all my football watching years is watch matches on TV or at the grounds and that's how I make decisions about any player..

You will watch a match and some player does nothing of note but then when the stats come out they say otherwise, then you are there thinking to yourself, what game was I watching???

Smh..

 

[ferrarif50hunt]

Still believe that Szczesny has world class potential, and will be a top keeper for us in the future. Remember that not all keepers, even ones that have gone on to be greats, are consistent at such a young age. 25 is still young for a goalkeeper, not everyone is like Courtois, and I think by the time he gets to 27-28 he will finally mature into the top keeper I think he could be.

I don't think anyone can doubt his raw ability, in terms of skills needed he's got everything to be a quality keeper. The issue with him is all mental, you need a certain level of maturity to play in goal and some players reach that level earlier than others, but he will get there. We saw what happened with Fabianski, the guy used to be an absolute mess mentally, constantly making awful decisions and mistakes, far worse than Szczesny. Then something just clicked and he suddenly started looking like a really good GK, despite not having as much ability as Szczesny, and I was really sad to see him go.
_________________

As for Ospina... I don't know what is is about him, maybe it's the fact that he's fairly short for a GK, and perhaps my opinion would suddenly change if he was 6'5"? But I don't think he's great.

Yes he's come in and done a pretty good job in the second half of the season, but he just doesn't seem like a quality goalie to me. At the moment I have him in the same bracket as someone like Mignolet, decent, but not excelling at any particular aspect and always giving me the feeling that he's likely to make a crucial mistake ,and not good enough for a title winning team.

Is that a bit harsh? Maybe, but it's what I see when I watch him. Talent wise he's nowhere near Szczesny in my opinion. If a new GK is coming in, the Columbian is the one I would sacrifice.

 

[Thehulk]

I don't know why people are so into stats.. I have never been into them, what I have been doing in all my football watching years is watch matches on TV or at the grounds and that's how I make decisions about any player..

You will watch a match and some player does nothing of note but then when the stats come out they say otherwise, then you are there thinking to yourself, what game was I watching???

Smh..

Because judgement can easily be clouded by watching games, players are only as good as their last couple of games on here, stats don't tell the whole story I agree but they tell part of it.

I've had people tell me X player is a terrible passer and looses possession all the time, but stats have that player with 90% pass completion, in circumstances like that stats are 100% useful.

I think we should look at Ospinas save ratio and compare to others, ball distribution etc etc

Not how well he did in the past couple of games.

 

[Malky]

Because judgement can easily be clouded by watching games, players are only as good as their last couple of games on here, stats don't tell the whole story I agree but they tell part of it.

I've had people tell me X player is a terrible passer and looses possession all the time, but stats have that player with 90% pass completion, in circumstances like that stats are 100% useful.

I think we should look at Ospinas save ratio and compare to others, ball distribution etc etc

Not how well he did in the past couple of games.

And that is why stats are bullshit. Ospina could go a couple of games where he's only getting a couple of shots hit straight at him from 30 yards, a keeper saves them 99.9% of the time, when a another keeper could have half a dozen shots hit low in to the corner from 10 yards, and because he'll only save 3 of them he only has a 50% save ratio compared to Ospina's 100%. Ridiculous way of judging a keepers performance.
I agree with @ferrarif50hunt, I wouldn't give up on Szczesny yet either. Watched him closely since he went out on loan as a youngster and you could tell there was something special about him, massive potential. He really needs to sort his head out and mature though, maybe a season long loan at a smaller club where there is less pressure on him would be best?!

 

[Thehulk]

And that is why stats are bullshit. Ospina could go a couple of games where he's only getting a couple of shots hit straight at him from 30 yards, a keeper saves them 99.9% of the time, when a another keeper could have half a dozen shots hit low in to the corner from 10 yards, and because he'll only save 3 of them he only has a 50% save ratio compared to Ospina's 100%. Ridiculous way of judging a keepers performance.
I agree with @ferrarif50hunt, I wouldn't give up on Szczesny yet either. Watched him closely since he went out on loan as a youngster and you could tell there was something special about him, massive potential. He really needs to sort his head out and mature though, maybe a season long loan at a smaller club where there is less pressure on him would be best?!

Over the space of the season he would face a variety of shots and be playing against the same teams and players other keepers have to deal with, the stats are not bullshit at all, either we ban stats from the site or we use them, I suggest we use them because the professionals use them.

 

[Impact]

Saturday highlighted why I think Ospina is good, but not good enough for our #1 role.

The first goal highlighted his aerial shortcomings. As he is only 6ft, it means he has to be absolutely spot on at timing his decisions in the air. But if he is slightly off, we get what we had for WBA's first goal.

Also, in the final few moments, I think Brunt had a shot that Ospina fluffed at and luckily, it hit the bar. Here, the problem lies in Ospina's propensity to punch. You are almost always safer when a goalkeeper catches a ball but Ospina clearer prefers to punch and when it goes wrong we have what we had on Sunday.

 

[Marmaduke]

Over the space of the season he would face a variety of shots and be playing against the same teams and players other keepers have to deal with, the stats are not bullshit at all, either we ban stats from the site or we use them, I suggest we use them because the professionals use them.

Pros do use them and are often wrong. Teams spend millions to sign the wrong players and pundits make really dumb analysis. Irrelevant stats get used as proof too.

For example, Coutinho made Team of the Year on BBC.... they highlighted he had more shots outside the box than anyone (21 i think)... who cares? Only 2 or 3 went in....

Gulfi Siggurdson had a better season all things considered full stop. Giroud has a bad pass completion but he is in the most pressured situation out of the whole team when he has to pull them off. John Terry is a demi god of a defender because of how Chelsea set up with great stats but would get found out with a higher line...

I'm not saying stats don't have their place but lots of time they are just BS filler for 24 hour sports analysis when theres nothing to analyze or talk about. Who cares about Di Maria's stats from last year when this year Montero has been more useful? People still watch football and know Di Maria is miles ahead of Montero

 

[Thehulk]

Saturday highlighted why I think Ospina is good, but not good enough for our #1 role.

The first goal highlighted his aerial shortcomings. As he is only 6ft, it means he has to be absolutely spot on at timing his decisions in the air. But if he is slightly off, we get what we had for WBA's first goal.

Also, in the final few moments, I think Brunt had a shot that Ospina fluffed at and luckily, it hit the bar. Here, the problem lies in Ospina's propensity to punch. You are almost always safer when a goalkeeper catches a ball but Ospina clearer prefers to punch and when it goes wrong we have what we had on Sunday.

Thing is both of those incidents are something he can learn from and fast, again its his first season here.

Fabianski was shaky as hell for quite a while and look at him now, best keeper in the league (statistically)

 

[Coolin]

I think Ospina's just fine. I wasn't complaining about him when we won 16 games in a row and started gaining ground on City and then Chelsea. So I'm not gonna start complaining now after one shaky game at West Brom.

People have short memories. It was his saves against Sunderland that sealed us Champions League football for next season with no qualifier.

 

[Thehulk]

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...on_accuracy/clean_sheets/goals_conceded#total

 

[OnlyOne]

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...on_accuracy/clean_sheets/goals_conceded#total

He's played way less games?!

 

[Iceman10]

Saturday highlighted why I think Ospina is good, but not good enough for our #1 role.

The first goal highlighted his aerial shortcomings. As he is only 6ft, it means he has to be absolutely spot on at timing his decisions in the air. But if he is slightly off, we get what we had for WBA's first goal.

Also, in the final few moments, I think Brunt had a shot that Ospina fluffed at and luckily, it hit the bar. Here, the problem lies in Ospina's propensity to punch. You are almost always safer when a goalkeeper catches a ball but Ospina clearer prefers to punch and when it goes wrong we have what we had on Sunday.

Haven't noticed too much with his punching recently, in the main goalkeepers punch a lot more nowadays because of the lightness of the ball and it swerving around (percentages and all that). Having said that there have been two or three goals which have appeared a bit soft in recent matches for sure (e.g. the cross which he flapped at and being beaten at the near post for which I believe a taller GK would have probably got a stronger hand to)

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-m...on_accuracy/clean_sheets/goals_conceded#total

As if you'd bring up that stat knowing that Ospina has played way less games. There's reaching and there's what you're doing right now.

 

[Thehulk]

He's played way less games?!

Do the maths in your head to work out percentages Jesus lol

 

[Thehulk]

As if you'd bring up that stat knowing that Ospina has played way less games. There's reaching and there's what you're doing right now.

What stat, theres a few on that link, its just a comparison of the top five keepers.

Here are the stats per game, Ospina is top for goals conceded if thats what your talking about.

http://www.squawka.com/football-pla...24/05/2015#season#1#all-matches#total#asc#avg

ospina top again for clean sheets

http://www.squawka.com/football-pla...4/05/2015#season#1#all-matches#total#desc#avg

 

[Malky]

@Thehulk
Clean sheets mean nothing looking at those stats, Ospina's only slightly better than Fortser even though hes played nearly half the amount of games. Steve Harper is nearly level with Ospina for clean sheets... why don't we sign Harper then we'll have two of the best keepers in the league...
The goals conceded stat is also irrelevant, its been the over all team performance that has improved, how many times does this need to be brought up?
Since you love stats so much there is one comparing Szczesny and Ospina and Szczesny has faced over three times the amount of clear goal scoring chances (shots into the corner's, close range, ones keepers are not expected to save) compared to Ospina, it also points out that that statistic improved with the inclusion of Coquelin.
As for people saying " I wont criticize him because we beat City and went on an unbeaten run with him ".... Giroud was involved in the team so was Monreal and people are still saying we could and should upgrade on them, so why not Ospina? Like he's been anything special. Hes done a job, fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact he's an average - decent keeper!

 

[Thehulk]

@Thehulk
Clean sheets mean nothing looking at those stats, Ospina's only slightly better than Fortser even though hes played nearly half the amount of games. Steve Harper is nearly level with Ospina for clean sheets... why don't we sign Harper then we'll have two of the best keepers in the league...
The goals conceded stat is also irrelevant, its been the over all team performance that has improved, how many times does this need to be brought up?
Since you love stats so much there is one comparing Szczesny and Ospina and Szczesny has faced over three times the amount of clear goal scoring chances (shots into the corner's, close range, ones keepers are not expected to save) compared to Ospina, it also points out that that statistic improved with the inclusion of Coquelin.
As for people saying " I wont criticize him because we beat City and went on an unbeaten run with him ".... Giroud was involved in the team so was Monreal and people are still saying we could and should upgrade on them, so why not Ospina? Like he's been anything special. Hes done a job, fair enough, but it doesn't change the fact he's an average - decent keeper!

Clean sheets mean nothing?
Goals conceded mean nothing?

hahahahaha

It doesn't matter how many games he's played it's a per game ratio, he has played enough for us to take note of his stats, its not like he has played 5 or less games.

The stat that impressed me most is his saves per goal, which is the best in the league, it tells me he is keeping the ball out of the net more than the rest of the keepers in the league,, which is why we have conceded less and he has a high amount of clean sheets.

 

[Malky]

Clean sheets mean nothing?
Goals conceded mean nothing?

hahahahaha

It doesn't matter how many games he's played it's a per game ratio, he has played enough for us to take note of his stats, its not like he has played 5 or less games.

The stat that impressed me most is his saves per goal, which is the best in the league, it tells me he is keeping the ball out of the net more than the rest of the keepers in the league,, which is why we have conceded less and he has a high amount of clean sheets.

The clean sheet stat does mean nothing, because your trying to make it out like it's a great achievement that in the 18 games he's played his clean sheet record is marginally better than Forsters who has played 30 games, 12 games more. Surely that's more impressive for Forster?!
I never said goals conceded mean nothing, i said the stat is irrelevant since it is more of a reflection of overall team performance, better defense means less shots on goal, less goals scored, looks better for Ospina even though he did **** all!
So his "saves per goal stat" what has the saves been like? Top corner wonder saves? one on ones? Close range reaction's? Or teams not getting clear changes at goal so they're forced into hitting shots from 20 odd yards that are straight at Ospina? You cant judge a keeper on stats, they never tell half the story!!

 

[Thehulk]

The clean sheet stat does mean nothing, because your trying to make it out like it's a great achievement that in the 18 games he's played his clean sheet record is marginally better than Forsters who has played 30 games, 12 games more. Surely that's more impressive for Forster?!
I never said goals conceded mean nothing, i said the stat is irrelevant since it is more of a reflection of overall team performance, better defense means less shots on goal, less goals scored, looks better for Ospina even though he did **** all!
So his "saves per goal stat" what has the saves been like? Top corner wonder saves? one on ones? Close range reaction's? Or teams not getting clear changes at goal so they're forced into hitting shots from 20 odd yards that are straight at Ospina? You cant judge a keeper on stats, they never tell half the story!!

It doesn't matter how many games he's played it's a per game ratio, he has played enough for us to take note of his stats, its not like he has played 5 or less games.