Mohamed Elneny: What is he good 4?

[Trilly]

He did score a goal against Barca . That was a quality goal .

Anyone can take a potshot and score a goal. I want to see consistent attacking qualities from him such as the ability to pass between the lines, spread play, carry the ball from midfield or make late well timed runs into the box.

If he's our new DLP/Coq replacement then I want to see some tackling or intelligent positioning from him.

I don't see enough from him right now.

 

[celestis]

Anyone can take a potshot and score a goal. I want to see consistent attacking qualities from him such as the ability to pass between the lines, spread play, carry the ball from midfield or make late well timed runs into the box.

If he's our new DLP/Coq replacement then I want to see some tackling or intelligent positioning from him.

I don't see enough from him right now.

There was quality swerve on that finish and I notice he's taking free kicks for us as well so they must rate his delivery. I agree though his defensive work .... well lets say I haven't make a tackle stick . He's a squaddie no doubt but he did improve our midfield when he came in.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Basically unless our midfielders score like Lampard by making runs into the box or go running around making tackles they're completely useless? Elneny's a midfielder who's done an exceptional job in recent weeks, he's done his job excellently. Our problems recently have nothing to do with Elneny being in midfield, in fact he's helped considering the problems with our midfield not so long ago with Ramsey-Flamini and Ramsey-Coquelin.

I also believe that his positioning has been excellent and has added to us being a tad more solid and having a better overall structure without the ball which has helped us keep 3 clean sheets on the bounce and that was partnered with the much maligned Ramsey. If you add to Elneny a more well rounded partner to Elneny and I think our midfield goes up another level. The fact is people say Coquelin is limited, but when you get a guy like Elneny who's a lot more attributes to him and people complain about him not being a specific type of player. He's not a B2B and he's not a DLP, he's simply a centre midfielder who does the work a CM should be doing. A lot of it isn't exactly flashy and it isn't all guns blazing running all over the pitch like most midfielders who catch the eye, but he does a lot of the work that is under-appreciated by a lot of football fans. Passing and moving, providing a bit of energy to the midfield, getting it to Özil and our attacking players a lot quicker than Ramsey and Coquelin do. Taking the ball from our back four also. I also believe he's improving constantly in a lot of aspects of his game.

I know people don't think much of the awards, but 2 player of the month award tells you a lot of people are impressed with his contributions in midfield. As am I, I think he's good player with a lot of upside and one who's contributions have been overlooked a hell of a lot.

Plus he's apart of the African Trio.

 

[Trilly]

There was quality swerve on that finish and I notice he's taking free kicks for us as well so they must rate his delivery. I agree though his defensive work .... well lets say I haven't make a tackle stick . He's a squaddie no doubt but he did improve our midfield when he came in.

That's good that he's heading in the right direction. No agendas here I would love for him to become the CM that we need, but I think it's too much to ask for from him.

Wenger has chosen to go with a midfield two, and at this level that requires both midfielders to be top class multi faceted players. The only players we have that are talented enough for a midfield two IMO are Caz and Jack, and they would both require some sort of Gilberto/Xabi Alonso hybrid to form a top level partnership.

Think El Nenny might just be an upgraded Flamini replacement. Which is fine tbh.

 

[celestis]

That's good that he's heading in the right direction. No agendas here I would love for him to become the CM that we need, but I think it's too much to ask for from him.

Wenger has chosen to go with a midfield two, and at this level that requires both midfielders to be top class multi faceted players. The only players we have that are talented enough for a midfield two IMO are Caz and Jack, and they would both require some sort of Gilberto/Xabi Alonso hybrid to form a top level partnership.

Think El Nenny might just be an upgraded Flamini replacement. Which is fine tbh.

Think thats where it's going to be honest.

 

[Giroud]

We attempted this system in 2014 and it never really worked, also with Özil and Sanchez outwide our play will be too narrow as neither like to take he fullback on but instead come inside.

Özil is probably the best number 10 in th world currently and thus should stay there with Wilshere/Elneny & Coquelin in behind. I think that would be our bes setup.

Özil, Coquelin and Elneny will be weak defensively and offer no goal threat. How many games this season have we struggled to score? If you don't have consistent goalscorers up front you need goals from midfield. Like we did when we have Giroud, Podolski and Walcott up front with players like Cazorla, then Ramsey chipping in from midfield.

It didn't quite work in 2014 but I'd say things are different now. Özil is in much better form, Cazorla has adapted to a deeper role and although I'm not a big Coquelin fan he's certainly an upgrade on Flamini. A 3 man midfield gives us more bodies in defence, support to Coquelin in possession who struggles when pressed at times and allows someone to push on and score goals. Ramsey and Cazorla have shown they're capable of scoring while Wilshere showed signs of developing a real eye for goal last season.

 

[Jury]

Because AM'ers are all Egypt-hating Francophiles.

I know, what a ****ing tosser.

 

[MutableEarth]

LOL You can praise Elneny's application and the fact he does the basic things well and STILL acknowledge that you need BETTER!!

I like Elneny, but is he the difference between 4th and a proper League/CL challenge/win? I don't think he is. You bring in another midfielder who stands out at something better than he does. He's not a controller, he's not a great ball-winner, he's a basic box-to-box man. He'll do a job, but if we want to win sh*t, we need more than a job.

 

[Jury]

I very much doubt he gets much time, if any at all, for as long as Jack and Caz are fit. Both can do what El Neny does and a whole lot more.

 

[MutableEarth]

I very much doubt he gets much time, if any at all, for as long as Jack and Caz are fit. Both can do what El Neny does and a whole lot more.

He'll provide much more energy than the latter, and take as many touches - at a push. Other than that, I agree. Nobody is even saying he's sh*t, or that he's the reason we're sloppy.

But there is a difference between slotting into this team and doing a job, and coming into this team and helping to elevate it. We don't have a proper system so it matters more that we have players capable of contributing to an outstanding level. Elneny's done well, but we need more. Nobody's asking him to be Lampard or whatever. Been saying it for nearly 2 years now - we need a passer in the middle, we have no control in midfield at all, especially since Cazorla's injury, and even then we needed a controller in midfield.

If we fail to sign Xhaka or another midfielder of his type, we will encounter the same issues in midfield, even with Elneny there. The only hope is that he becomes a better ball-winner and Wilshere stays fit. And even then, it's still a fail.

 

[boyinneedofhumor]

I very much doubt he gets much time, if any at all, for as long as Jack and Caz are fit. Both can do what El Neny does and a whole lot more.

Hard to fully go along on this... reason being, in past few games at times the opponents' midfield has tried to nick the ball off Elneny, but by then the ball has been distributed to other of our players.

Jack and Carzola are more similar in driving the ball forward.
Carzola and Elneny are closer in distribution of the ball to others.

If it's a 4-2-3-1, I'd fancy Elneny over Wilshere as one of the 2 to protect the back 4.

 

[nongoonerinpeace]

Just because I critiqued your team, and the absurd arguments you're using against Elneny doesn't mean that I'm "violating the fact that I come in peace."

If you guys think that midfield is your problem, it really isn't. For years your team has been producing the chances, but you've never had any solid cynicism in your teams to grind out wins. Before you used to have players like Vieira, who had the ability to do the dirty work, while still doing the fancy crap that you guys solely value.

The problem is you have yet to have a striker who can score goals. Giroud is below your level. If you guys got Higuain--who is one of the most unathletic looking footballers I think I've seen in a long time--but he would be smacking the goals in for you.

You guys got spoiled with Henry, who wouldn't? But he was the rare--greatness is inherently rare, otherwise it would not be great--but he was that rare combo of a striker who could score in buckets, but also give you the fancy goals that you guys crave. Your top scorer in the league is a tie between Sanchez and Giroud at 12 goals. That is horrific output for a team as creative as Arsenal.

You still field players like Mertesacker, who at critical moments of your season, gives up hilarious goals.

Your problem hasn't been midfield in a long time. You talk about "Sanchez needs to score more" and meh, yeah, but that shouldn't be his primary job. You need strikers and actual defenders. That's what you used to have. For God's sake, you used to have Kolo Toure and Sol Campbell as your CB pairing with Ashley Cole as your LB, while you'd have this attack-heavy midfield with only Gilberto Silva (one of my favorite players) to shield the back four, and you did very well. You guys could afford to do that because of how strong your defense was and the possession you maintained. You still maintain possession, but you don't score ugly goals that can get you through the grind of a season, or pick you out of a bad spot. Giroud is not that player.

So, yes, I've watched your team. I think your commentary on Elneny is laced with questionable reasons, and I also fundamentally question the hackneyed stereotypes that you use against Elneny. Expecting one of your CMs--who helps your top-heavy attacking midfield work--is hilarious. Particularly when you talk about "he doesn't shoot enough" or whatever. Here's a quote from Elneny, referring to Wenger's instruction:

“I used to shoot a lot when I was at Basel but sometimes that doesn’t suit our style here. [Wenger] taught me to be more of a team player and to be intelligent in terms of when I shoot,”

Wow. Look at that. A player following the manager's instructions.

Anyway, I made this account simply because after seeing this thread to see Arsenal fans opinion, I was shellshocked at your opinion of a player who has really done nothing wrong. But somehow he's "the representation of Wenger's problems, when we should be pushing to win the league!" Y'know, to a certain degree, you're right, Wenger is part of the problem because he won't spend the cash that your team clearly has on the players you need. You need a CB and a striker before you get anything else, and that's on Wenger.

But to call Elneny a "squaddie" when he's outperformed everyone else in your midfield, including Ramsey and Wilshere and whoever else, doesn't that sort of... prove you wrong?

Alas, keep talking about the idea that he needs to "bulk up" when your team is notoriously tiny, or find other random issues that wouldn't be said about other players. There's not a very subtle implication here, but I'll let you deal with that.

I hope you guys do well, many of you have been really nice to me, and I really hope Wenger stays and turns things around, as I've always admired his way of developing teams, but anyway, "cheers" I believe is the way to sign off, so, cheers.

 

[Trilly]

Özil, Coquelin and Elneny will be weak defensively and offer no goal threat. How many games this season have we struggled to score? If you don't have consistent goalscorers up front you need goals from midfield. Like we did when we have Giroud, Podolski and Walcott up front with players like Cazorla, then Ramsey chipping in from midfield.

It didn't quite work in 2014 but I'd say things are different now. Özil is in much better form, Cazorla has adapted to a deeper role and although I'm not a big Coquelin fan he's certainly an upgrade on Flamini. A 3 man midfield gives us more bodies in defence, support to Coquelin in possession who struggles when pressed at times and allows someone to push on and score goals. Ramsey and Cazorla have shown they're capable of scoring while Wilshere showed signs of developing a real eye for goal last season.

Also everyone forgets we played that 4141 with a complete lack of pace throughout the side.

I think we had Özil and Cazorla on the wings with Jack and Ramsey in CM. To top it off we had you upfront.

Definitely think it could work with Özil on the wing, with Sanchez and Welbeck/New CF providing movement.

 

[Tourbillion]

Sad to see a lot of idiotic opinions. People act like they're 12 year old Saudi Arabian kids playing FIFA wanting to have Messi in all 11 positions.

 

[Jury]

Just because I critiqued your team, and the absurd arguments you're using against Elneny doesn't mean that I'm "violating the fact that I come in peace."

If you guys think that midfield is your problem, it really isn't. For years your team has been producing the chances, but you've never had any solid cynicism in your teams to grind out wins. Before you used to have players like Vieira, who had the ability to do the dirty work, while still doing the fancy crap that you guys solely value.

The problem is you have yet to have a striker who can score goals. Giroud is below your level. If you guys got Higuain--who is one of the most unathletic looking footballers I think I've seen in a long time--but he would be smacking the goals in for you.

You guys got spoiled with Henry, who wouldn't? But he was the rare--greatness is inherently rare, otherwise it would not be great--but he was that rare combo of a striker who could score in buckets, but also give you the fancy goals that you guys crave. Your top scorer in the league is a tie between Sanchez and Giroud at 12 goals. That is horrific output for a team as creative as Arsenal.

You still field players like Mertesacker, who at critical moments of your season, gives up hilarious goals.

Your problem hasn't been midfield in a long time. You talk about "Sanchez needs to score more" and meh, yeah, but that shouldn't be his primary job. You need strikers and actual defenders. That's what you used to have. For God's sake, you used to have Kolo Toure and Sol Campbell as your CB pairing with Ashley Cole as your LB, while you'd have this attack-heavy midfield with only Gilberto Silva (one of my favorite players) to shield the back four, and you did very well. You guys could afford to do that because of how strong your defense was and the possession you maintained. You still maintain possession, but you don't score ugly goals that can get you through the grind of a season, or pick you out of a bad spot. Giroud is not that player.

So, yes, I've watched your team. I think your commentary on Elneny is laced with questionable reasons, and I also fundamentally question the hackneyed stereotypes that you use against Elneny. Expecting one of your CMs--who helps your top-heavy attacking midfield work--is hilarious. Particularly when you talk about "he doesn't shoot enough" or whatever. Here's a quote from Elneny, referring to Wenger's instruction:

“I used to shoot a lot when I was at Basel but sometimes that doesn’t suit our style here. [Wenger] taught me to be more of a team player and to be intelligent in terms of when I shoot,”

Wow. Look at that. A player following the manager's instructions.

Anyway, I made this account simply because after seeing this thread to see Arsenal fans opinion, I was shellshocked at your opinion of a player who has really done nothing wrong. But somehow he's "the representation of Wenger's problems, when we should be pushing to win the league!" Y'know, to a certain degree, you're right, Wenger is part of the problem because he won't spend the cash that your team clearly has on the players you need. You need a CB and a striker before you get anything else, and that's on Wenger.

But to call Elneny a "squaddie" when he's outperformed everyone else in your midfield, including Ramsey and Wilshere and whoever else, doesn't that sort of... prove you wrong?

Alas, keep talking about the idea that he needs to "bulk up" when your team is notoriously tiny, or find other random issues that wouldn't be said about other players. There's not a very subtle implication here, but I'll let you deal with that.

I hope you guys do well, many of you have been really nice to me, and I really hope Wenger stays and turns things around, as I've always admired his way of developing teams, but anyway, "cheers" I believe is the way to sign off, so, cheers.

Our problem is we try and walk it in tbh.

 

[Trilly]

Just because I critiqued your team, and the absurd arguments you're using against Elneny doesn't mean that I'm "violating the fact that I come in peace."

If you guys think that midfield is your problem, it really isn't. For years your team has been producing the chances, but you've never had any solid cynicism in your teams to grind out wins. Before you used to have players like Vieira, who had the ability to do the dirty work, while still doing the fancy crap that you guys solely value.

The problem is you have yet to have a striker who can score goals. Giroud is below your level. If you guys got Higuain--who is one of the most unathletic looking footballers I think I've seen in a long time--but he would be smacking the goals in for you.

You guys got spoiled with Henry, who wouldn't? But he was the rare--greatness is inherently rare, otherwise it would not be great--but he was that rare combo of a striker who could score in buckets, but also give you the fancy goals that you guys crave. Your top scorer in the league is a tie between Sanchez and Giroud at 12 goals. That is horrific output for a team as creative as Arsenal.

You still field players like Mertesacker, who at critical moments of your season, gives up hilarious goals.

Your problem hasn't been midfield in a long time. You talk about "Sanchez needs to score more" and meh, yeah, but that shouldn't be his primary job. You need strikers and actual defenders. That's what you used to have. For God's sake, you used to have Kolo Toure and Sol Campbell as your CB pairing with Ashley Cole as your LB, while you'd have this attack-heavy midfield with only Gilberto Silva (one of my favorite players) to shield the back four, and you did very well. You guys could afford to do that because of how strong your defense was and the possession you maintained. You still maintain possession, but you don't score ugly goals that can get you through the grind of a season, or pick you out of a bad spot. Giroud is not that player.

So, yes, I've watched your team. I think your commentary on Elneny is laced with questionable reasons, and I also fundamentally question the hackneyed stereotypes that you use against Elneny. Expecting one of your CMs--who helps your top-heavy attacking midfield work--is hilarious. Particularly when you talk about "he doesn't shoot enough" or whatever. Here's a quote from Elneny, referring to Wenger's instruction:

“I used to shoot a lot when I was at Basel but sometimes that doesn’t suit our style here. [Wenger] taught me to be more of a team player and to be intelligent in terms of when I shoot,”

Wow. Look at that. A player following the manager's instructions.

Anyway, I made this account simply because after seeing this thread to see Arsenal fans opinion, I was shellshocked at your opinion of a player who has really done nothing wrong. But somehow he's "the representation of Wenger's problems, when we should be pushing to win the league!" Y'know, to a certain degree, you're right, Wenger is part of the problem because he won't spend the cash that your team clearly has on the players you need. You need a CB and a striker before you get anything else, and that's on Wenger.

But to call Elneny a "squaddie" when he's outperformed everyone else in your midfield, including Ramsey and Wilshere and whoever else, doesn't that sort of... prove you wrong?

Alas, keep talking about the idea that he needs to "bulk up" when your team is notoriously tiny, or find other random issues that wouldn't be said about other players. There's not a very subtle implication here, but I'll let you deal with that.

I hope you guys do well, many of you have been really nice to me, and I really hope Wenger stays and turns things around, as I've always admired his way of developing teams, but anyway, "cheers" I believe is the way to sign off, so, cheers.

Alright mate, let me address some of your points. The first thing I'll say is that the midfield is a problem and has been for years. It's a bit rich to come on here and tell us what's wrong with our team. Just because Giroud is awful doesn't mean that our midfield is fine.

Due to Wenger's actions we need our CM's to be exceptionally talented players in order to move the team forward and take us up a level. Now I invite you to look through this thread and find instances of people calling Elneny crap, I think you'll be hard pressed to find one if any at all. The criticism comes from him not being good enough to take us up a level, especially because we know how awful Wenger is in the transfer window.

Since Viera left we've been looking for an exceptional CM, Elneny is doing a good job but he's not exceptional. You say he's outpeformed everyone in our midfield, you mean Ramsey and Flamini? Yeah they're both crap. I don't think he'll be outperforming Cazorla or Wilshere but we'll see.

So to sum up my response. You're getting yourself all knotted up over people criticising Elneny but no one is saying he's rubbish. He's just not the midfield controller or the Viera replacement we've needed for years. And with a manager like Wenger at the helm the signing of Elneny probably means we'll be waiting a while longer.

 

[Giroud]

Also everyone forgets we played that 4141 with a complete lack of pace throughout the side.

I think we had Özil and Cazorla on the wings with Jack and Ramsey in CM. To top it off we had you upfront.

Definitely think it could work with Özil on the wing, with Sanchez and Welbeck/New CF providing movement.

Welbeck and Giroud need to be on the bench. Not many top strikers available so someone like Slimani would be a good signing. He does the basics really well unlike our current options who seem to constantly miss easy chances and make poor touches. He can beat the offside trap, very consistent and is probably one of the best strikers around in the air. Özil on the right crossing with his left and playing balls in the channel and he would score for fun.

 

[Trilly]

Welbeck and Giroud need to be on the bench. Not many top strikers available so someone like Slimani would be a good signing. He does the basics really well unlike our current options who seem to constantly miss easy chances and make poor touches. He can beat the offside trap, very consistent and is probably one of the best strikers around in the air. Özil on the right crossing with his left and playing balls in the channel and he would score for fun.

I was more focused on a better more balanced attempt at the 4141 rather than who's good or not good enough.

Now you mention it Slimani has been excellent but don't you fear about the step up form Liga NOS to the prem. Also what do you think about Jorge Jesus as a potential Wenger successor, he's turned Sporting into contenders in one season.

 

[Giroud]

I was more focused on a better more balanced attempt at the 4141 rather than who's good or not good enough.

Now you mention it Slimani has been excellent but don't you fear about the step up form Liga NOS to the prem. Also what do you think about Jorge Jesus as a potential Wenger successor, he's turned Sporting into contenders in one season.

I would really like to see a return of a real 3 man midfield here. Certain players like Özil might suffer but on a whole I would be surprised if other players were not much more comfortable.

It is a step up but Carvalho, Falcao, Matic, Oblak, Di Maria and the list goes on had no problems stepping up into the Premier League and La Liga. Of course nothing is guaranteed with a transfer to a new club but Slimani is a real proper goalscorer to me. He's much better in the air and a better finisher all round than our current options and his movement is also more threatening.

Jesus has just continued the brilliant work of Marco Silva who ended Sporting's trophy drought. Porto have been atrocious this season and Benfica are massively in transition as Vitoria has had to draft in several young players to make up his starting team so I would be surprised if Sporting weren't in the same position under Silva. Jesus has improved from his early days at Benfica for sure but if you look at some of the teams he had their I think it's fair to say that they underperformed in Europe. Wouldn't even consider him for the Arsenal job after Wenger I'm afraid.

 

[Trilly]

I would really like to see a return of a real 3 man midfield here. Certain players like Özil might suffer but on a whole I would be surprised if other players were not much more comfortable.

It is a step up but Carvalho, Falcao, Matic, Oblak, Di Maria and the list goes on had no problems stepping up into the Premier League and La Liga. Of course nothing is guaranteed with a transfer to a new club but Slimani is a real proper goalscorer to me. He's much better in the air and a better finisher all round than our current options and his movement is also more threatening.

Jesus has just continued the brilliant work of Marco Silva who ended Sporting's trophy drought. Porto have been atrocious this season and Benfica are massively in transition as Vitoria has had to draft in several young players to make up his starting team so I would be surprised if Sporting weren't in the same position under Silva. Jesus has improved from his early days at Benfica for sure but if you look at some of the teams he had their I think it's fair to say that they underperformed in Europe. Wouldn't even consider him for the Arsenal job after Wenger I'm afraid.

Cheers for the insight mate. Agree with you on the 433, think we can pull it off with one or two quality buys and the team will be better for it.