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29 Wed UEFA Champions League A Manchester United 19:45

Discussion in 'Match Day Archive' started by HollandGooner, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. BannedKwame

    BannedKwame New Member Trusted

    yea, because our players are approaching the ends of their careers....

    the arshavin and eduardo purchases show the direction Arsène wants to go. the youth experiment was mostly over once we got financially settled. everyone here agrees that if gallas/clichy/sagan were healthy, eduardo/arshavin could play, then the game would've probably ended differently, so why are we moaning about how bad we are?

    i don't think wenger is a weak link. he's done more with less than any manager out there, so let's focus on that before we get a supposed tactical genius who needs to spend 30 mill a year, which we don't have. wenger was thinking out of his ass with how he positioned his players, even if the team selection was fine. i sense a bit of politics with the whole AM nonsense, and perhaps cowardice from a manager looking after a bunch of players mostly our ages . tell them to quit whining about who plays where and pick your bloody team!
     
  2. General

    General Well-Known Member

    You said it yourself. Practicality at the highest level is what Wenger lacks or refuses to embrace. I don't think many people are saying we have a poor team, although I accept some of the knee jerk reactions are ridiculous. But a majority of the whingeing is mainly borne out of the fact that many believe we could've yielded a better performance/result with better approach in terms practicality as opposed to an unhealthy taste for idealism. Some of discussed this way before a ball was kicked and importance of keeping our key players in their preferred roles. You just don't go dilly dallying with formation during a key period of the season.
     
  3. Shadow Moses

    Shadow Moses Well-Known Member

    Care to explain why they were not good enough then, assuming you think they've been good enough previously..like the home game against ManU?
     
  4. ibby

    ibby New Member

    We used the same formation against United earlier in the season didn't we not?
     
  5. Herbert Chapman

    Herbert Chapman New Member

    Jameel..... lucky boy,

    I posted you a strongly worded response to the above post last night, unfortunately , 1)AM was getting a lot of traffic and it was difficult to post my response and secondly, I was using a PS3, which without a Bluetooth keyboard is a nightmare.

    Lucky boy because I was in a very bad mood and you're blinkered vision comment was just too smug and polarised to warrant a gentlemanly response. I live and breathe this club Jameel, pure emotion!

    I didn’t even give you the benefit of a smiley

    I’m giving you an opportunity to make me look foolish for my original comment, putting a smiley is a bit of a kop out, so please give me a genuine response and be forewarned, on evidence of your posts (and I’ve read quite a few now) I am of the conclusion that you really haven’t got a Footballing brain.

    Therefore you’re probably the only person who thinks your frequent posting makes you sound credible, In fact you just keep confirming what the general consensus on you is

    Please save yourself and prove me wrong :wink:
     
  6. General

    General Well-Known Member

    You need to realise the subtleties in the argument Ibby. I don't think people are complaining about the formation but the way our players were deployed. Yes the same formation worked against United earlier in the season and has worked against other teams (Fenerbahce and Roma amongst others). The main difference is that key players were deployed in their preferred roles.

    We've gone from this...
    Code:
    -----------Ade----
    
    Nasri-----Diaby-----Theo
    
    ----Denilson---Cesc--
    to this
    Code:
    -----------Ade----
    
    Diaby-----Cesc-------Theo
    
    -------Nasri-----Song-
    I'm not a big fan of discussing tactics but that alteration in setup makes a huge difference.
     
  7. atmosphere

    atmosphere New Member

    Can't be bothered to read all of this thread as it'll probably contain all the usual doom, gloom and unnecessary venom but here's my thoughts:

    - Despite being the superior team, they only scored one goal thanks to a flukey assist from double agent Silvestre.
    - Ade was having a lazy day, but was also far too isolated thanks to a lack of support play from CM and good runs/crosses from the wings.
    - Cesc was inneffective and misplaced far too many passes.
    - There was no forward drive, only Toure seemed willing to push up.
    - Silvestre is just **** and Djourou should be ahead of him in the pecking order.
    - Wenger should've played Theo on the other flank against John O'bese.
    - He also should've brought Eduardo on instead of Bendtner after 65mins.
    - They actually played quite badly when you look at it, we were just worse.
    - We will need to score at least 3 at home because I am fairly sure they will score again.

    Right, I'm not gonna post again in this thread.
     
  8. henry79

    henry79 New Member


    yeah we did except manu changed their formation and personnel aswell.they played 451 last night where earlier in the season they were playing 442 and players like fletcher made a big difference to them last night. wenger should have reacted to that and changed his tactics if not at the start then second half but he's done none of that. we know some of our plyers are not good enough but tactics do play a big part,liverpool didnt have the most gifted players but they won the bloody thing they had players like troare and smicer playing for them!!
     
  9. Nela

    Nela New Member

    I just rewatched their goal. Toure was at fault.

    He was marking O'Shea and when the ball came into the box, totally left him and moved in the direction of the ball, right in front of Almunia at the far post, where we already had several of our players defending. Terrible from Toure.
     
  10. A_Gooner_Matata

    A_Gooner_Matata New Member

    You have a thick skin...
     
  11. flobaba

    flobaba New Member

    Well maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't change the fact that we were absolutely **** for most part of the game and they deserved to win by 3 clear goals or more had it not been for Almunia's heroics. We should focus on why we weren't able to construct a meaningful attack and try to address those faults in the second leg, than keep apportioning individual blame to various defenders who were all by the way, similarly helpful in keeping us in the game, and ensuring the scoreline was nowhere near as abysmal as the overall performance.

    Cheers.
     
  12. Glovegun

    Glovegun New Member Trusted

    You can argue that Adebayor got poor service, but what he did get he ballsed up, in addition to the usual cases of miscontrol we always see. And theres no excuse for a lack of effort - Drogba was charging around like a man possessed on Tuesday to keep up the pressure on the Barca defence, and any balls that did come his way he at least fought for.

    However, the biggest thing for me is Adebayor's movement off the ball. Its quite frankly ****. How can one player be caught offside so often yet never be looking for the through ball? There were plenty of occasions last night where we got the ball out wide, and Adebayor was trotting around about 30 yards from goal. He should be busting a gut to get in the box and attack the near post. Compare that to what Rooney, Torres and Tevez do. Compare that to Drogba's goal against Liverpool. Adebayor wouldnt score that in a million years.

    Im ashamed to say I agree with Myles Palmer. Not totally crap but not good enough. Id rather see Simpson given a go next year, or even better, Wenger goes out and buys a proper centre-forward who will actually make use of the service given by Arshavin, Cesc, Robin, Nasri and Theo.
     
  13. ricky1985

    ricky1985 Active Member Elite

    Okay, day off work, so I've just rewatched the game. Here are some of the conclusions I have drawn;

    - We weren't anywhere near as bad as it appeared first time round.
    - We completely, and totally dominated from about the 25th minute to half-time.
    - Even in the first 25 minutes they weren't all over us, they just took advantages of our mistakes and quickly countered us.
    - Our defense handled Ronaldo and Rooney brilliantly. Gibbs and Sagna were absolutely fantastic.
    - There goal was a direct result of Rio Ferdinand coming forward unexpectedly for the corner. It meant they had 6 men in the box, so did we, however Adebayor was not marking anyone just defending the near post. It resulted in Diaby being left with Ferdinand and Carrick at the back post, the corner came in and Diaby jumped with Ferdinand, they both missed it and the ball came to Carrick. Toure did nothing wrong because he had to get goal side of Tevez, Adebayor was laughably stupid. he just jogged away from the near post without a care in the world. Ferdinand didn't come up for another corner the whole game.
    - Song was integral to everything good we did, but the main reason we were so shakey at the back is that he was constantly caught ahead of the ball. Taken out the game whenever Man United countered quickly. It happened all night long.
    - Nasri was nowhere near as proficient in centre midfield as he appeared to me last night. His positioning, and anticipation were very poor. He worked hard and he was very good/composed on the ball, but he was a liability defnesively.
    - For some very strange reason Nasri was by far the deepest of our two centre midfielders. Song was pressing like a mad man up the pitch and Nasri was the one sitting/holding. Crazy decision from Wenger.
    - Fabregas was absolutely diabolical, he should never, ever play 'in the hole' ever again. He had no chance of succeeding. Crazy decision from Wenger. I'm convinced it's because Cesc still isn't properly fit.
    - Diaby's floating was very real and it was both costly and effective. Defensively he left Gibbs exposed time, and time again. Offensively he played some nice one-touch stuff, and kept the ball moving across the forward line.
    - Adebayor was beyond bad. The service to him wasn't great but he had a few chances to make things happen and he failed miserably.
    - Walcott was good in the first half. Whenever he got the ball he looked dangerous, but in the second half he retreated into that little shell he used to love so much a season or so ago.
    - Walcott had by far our best chance of the night. When he tried that little chip through ball to Ade - HE HAD TO GO FOR GOAL! HAD TO!!! He had Ferdinand in all kinds of trouble, and if he had drove towards goal he was in one-on-one, but he chose the easy option. Very poor from Theo.
    - Eduardo worked Ferdinand around brilliantly for the short time he was on. He should start over Ade no matter the game or the formation.
    - We had the ball for long spells of the game. There were 5 minutes patches where they simply couldn't get the ball from us. We were so close, especially in the first half to getting in. The final ball or a bad bounce away from a good chance on goal.
    - Ronaldo was completely dominated by Gibbs, who also shackled Rooney brilliantly as well.
    - Rooney doubled-up with Evra on Walcott and I am very surprised Wenger didn't move Walcott over to the left. Ronaldo wouldn't have helped out O'shea.

    Conclusion is - we could have won the game last night if we'd just switch it up a little tactically, and if a fully-fit Eduardo either partnered Adebayor or replaced him in the team. We played the better football, we passed and moved, then we came to the final third and we had no one who could beat a man or make a good run in the final third. They did an awful lot of crossing and hit us on the break. We can beat them at the Emirates if Wenger goes for it.
     
  14. atmosphere

    atmosphere New Member

    I agree with all of that, except that Cesc can play in the hole and Diaby was a lot poorer than you make out, giving the ball away far to often by trying to be overly intricate.

    **** I posted again.
     
  15. Webdesignlab

    Webdesignlab New Member

    Blimey Ricky, you on those rose tinted again? I remember us losing the ball in MF all the way through the first half. Second we had possession but didn't know what to do with it. Eddie was on far too short a time.
     
  16. Shadow Moses

    Shadow Moses Well-Known Member


    He is a poor footballer. No two ways about it. He's extremely flawed in many departments. World class midfield behind him last year and his high workrate prevented some from seeing the obvious or made them overlook his flaws. Take away the workrate and put in a decent midfield that provides about half of what last years did and you're left with a player that has nothing left to mask his flaws.

    Eduardo has a groin problem so he's out of the 2nd leg. My only hope is to see RVP as a focal point of the attack and not as an ineffective no10 that slows play down. This team will have a hard time winning anything with Ade being the focal point in crunch games where chances are hard to come by.
     
  17. General

    General Well-Known Member

    Good summation Ricky.

    On what evidence or because it is just your opinion. Cesc is a top class ball playing CM and no more.
     
  18. James

    James New Member Elite

    I haven't had the chance to see it on the tele, but it looked to me as if he had Ferdinand on the back foot, and all it took was a simple touch out of his feet, and he was through. Can't believe he decided to try and pass it.

    I also think that United gave it away far more cheaply than we did. We just had nothing creative, or that bit of magic in the final third to break through them.
     
  19. asajoseph

    asajoseph New Member Elite

    Has anyone ever played mixed 5 a-side, when you have to ensure that one of the girls on the team touches the ball before you're allowed to score?

    It seemed that way yesterday - he may have been our most advanced player, but it seemed as if we didn't even want to score unless Ade had had a touch first!
     
  20. kamikaze80

    kamikaze80 New Member Elite

    first of all, great breakdown. agree with almost all of it. i thought this point was a good one. the only reason it might not have worked, though, is that diaby is not a right-sided player and occupying rooney and evra with walcott helps to negate their threat offensively. of course, there's no problem if nasri was on the wing like he was supposed to be.
     

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