Arsenal v. Sunderland [League - 21 Feb 2009 15:00]

[sabret00the]

I personally don't blame Song and Denilson.

They are young players and they are physically, mentally, and technically not ready yet to start every game in the EPL, players like them in the past were limited to starting in the Carling Cup plus some plus some other games.

The position their playing in needs a lot of diffrent skills and attributes that they can only get when they are older and more experienced.

They are both trying to give 100 percent every game but they are simply not ready and not good enough yet to start for us and I personally blame Wenger for that for not bringing the proper replacements after the departures of Flamini and Gilberto.

Personally I think that Stephen Appiah would be a good buy if we bring him on even if we only keep him until the end of the season because he has attributes we lack at the moment like experience and strength.

I don't understand how Wenger can justify Song starting week-in/week-out given that not long ago Wenger come out and said publicly that Song can't player central midfield and his future lies at centre back. Irrespective of performances, it's criminal to do that to a player.

When you look at the set up, especially today, it seems as though Wenger is prepping Denilson for Fabregas's return. The instructions seem to simply be lay it off to Fabregas and fill the space that he leaves as not to leave us vulnerable. It's a shame because Flamini offered us so much more than that and so Denilson should be allowed to do the same. He should be allowed that freedom. He's not the Gilberto 2.0 that Wenger seems insistent on him becoming. We're talking about a youth level creative dynamo that's had his game stifled to the level of non-existence.

 

[sabret00the]

For me, Sunderland didnt have to work for that result. Yeah the played 11 behind the ball but we played into their hands by playing slow, unimaginative football. We never tested them.

When was the last time we done anything different? We see ten men behind the ball and for some unknown reason, believe that we can beat them by passing the ball in front of them to death. It's hilarious that in the past, our issue was that we tried to always go through the centre and teams learned to crowd us out there. the answer was to learn to play using the wings more effectively but instead we've simply put more onus on going through the middle as a team. if we want to beat these teams, than as with ManUre, we need players that are able to beat people and do it on there own.

 

[patrick42uk]

Passing football can break teams down but not when its executed the way we did it today. You have to play at a high tempo, you have to be super alert mentally, constantly on the move, moving the ball as quickly as possible. Our players just seemed to take satisfaction from being able to complete a pass. Our Cbs were the only ones that played with a sense of urgency. I dont know if its experience related or quality related. After 70 minutes i was thinking, when will these guys wake up. The same after 80, 85. At no point did we really up the tempo.

 

[Biggus]

I dont know if its experience related or quality related. After 70 minutes i was thinking, when will these guys wake up. The same after 80, 85. At no point did we really up the tempo.

Its both Patrick, certainly in Velas case, I feel sorry for him as he doesn't get enough pitch time compared with say- oh Eboue!
Heh heh I was struggling to stay awake at 70 minutes.

Agree with Jazz, Vela should have started and then Arshavin at 60.

 

[True Gooner]

Well I thought Denilson, Arshavin and Almunia are the only three players who should get any credit today.

Its a real shame so many of you can't decide to judge Arsenal players based on their actual performance, without your bitterness at the fact his name isn't Xabi Alonso or Gokhan Inler clouding judgement so obviously.

Denilson why exactly? He did nothing to help us win this game.

What did you expect him to do? He couldn't cross the halfway line since Alex Song was the one playing in our attacking third.

Denilson won plenty of tackles (except the one against the ref ) and kept the ball well.

Also played van Persie through with a pass worthy of Fabregas.

 

[Jose_Reyes_2005]

The tempo issue is something we've faced for years now. If you listen to Wenger in his press conferences and take a look at that leaked speech sheet from last year and see the amount of emphasis we place on patience and build up play - you can kind of understand how the problem has escalated.

 

[arsenalfc0719]

We lacked creativity, incisiveness, penetration etc as usual.

Having just one creative player on the field isn't enough, especially when he's playing out on the wing.

We have three creative players in our squad, Fabregas, Rosicky and Arshavin. Two of them are injured.

I think for now until Fabregas returns we should play Arshavin in the hole, with three midfielders behind him and two strikers in front of him.

Something like this -
Denilson-Nasri-Song
-----Arshavin------

 

[McIntyre]

Its both Patrick, certainly in Velas case, I feel sorry for him as he doesn't get enough pitch time compared with say- oh Eboue!

I think today's match was a kick in Arsène's teeth for not having given Vela more time before now. Some idiots will claim that his two misses today show why he wasn't ready for first team football. :roll:

But if he'd been getting regular opportunities, even as a sub, before now he might have been more composed in front of goal. Instead we wasted hour after hour of game time on that useless f*ck Eboue, who wouldn't have hit the target in that position given a million hours of football. I've seen the guy drill a nice shot against the post in the past (man, does that feel like a long time ago), but somehow the guy seems to have got worse.

Vela's misses today were down to inexperience, but of course there's no way he could've previously usurped our resident wonderkid Eboue (who's been doing such a sterling job for us :roll: ). What a joke!

 

[arsenalfc0719]

These kids need to grow a ****ing pair.

What's so hard about passing the ball ****ing forward?

You don't win games by playing it "safe".

Take some ****ing risks you ****ing ******.

 

[Biggus]

our resident wonderkid Eboue

 

[Anzac]

snip

Tactics have very little to do with it. All this talk about "teams have figured it out" is nonsense, they used to do the exact same for the old sides and they'd get torn apart. It was considered suicidle to sit back against the old invincibles side.

The main difference is a lack of movement or clever movement. Honestly, watch the game again and see what happens when we get close to the area, time and time again I screamed when I saw everyone bar Robin and Vela when he came on were simply standing still scrartching their arse.

Agreed that the opponent tactics are not the isuue, but IMO our basic game tactics re our style & patterns are.

We push players forward ahead of the ball as if we are playing on counter attack, yet we transition the ball too slowly because we don't look to pass into space. Our basic premise of short passing possession does not work without pace to move the ball at the same pace as our players going forward. As a consequence we push ahead of the ball leaving the CMs with few free short passing options other than the CBs & FBs - everyone else has pushed up & flattened out waiting for the ball, and the opposition defence has had time to regroup & mark up.

I also feel that all of our strikers are making too many lateral runs to the corners to receive the ball / provide a passing option in our slower build up play. TH had the pace & ability on the ball to do this & beat his man, but now we seem to do it all the time but it leaves the area vacant. Further to this the strikers don't look to take the defenders on but to lay the ball off to another pass option. Our crosses are cack & our so called wide players come off the flanks into the area, and there is no one in any position to accept any over hit ball on the far side.

For me these are issues that originate with our style, rather than the players. As such they are primarily the domain of the manager to sort - better players are only part of the solution, not the be all & end all.

 

[kanooo]

I was so excited to have Eduardo back for the FA Cup game. Pissed to find out he was injured again for this game. He maynot have won the game for us last night but he's definitely a different option for us.

In the end, same old story. Chances wasted and a ****ing agonising draw. Vela's 2 chances pissed me off the most. Van Persie's also guilty of one chance. We can't seem to do anything right even if our rivals are not doing so well. Seems like Villa will give us a real fight for the 4th position.

The only positive was Arshavin's promising start and his willingness to score and impress the fans.

 

[kanooo]

Its both Patrick, certainly in Velas case, I feel sorry for him as he doesn't get enough pitch time compared with say- oh Eboue!

I think today's match was a kick in Arsène's teeth for not having given Vela more time before now. Some idiots will claim that his two misses today show why he wasn't ready for first team football. :roll:

But if he'd been getting regular opportunities, even as a sub, before now he might have been more composed in front of goal. Instead we wasted hour after hour of game time on that useless f*ck Eboue, who wouldn't have hit the target in that position given a million hours of football. I've seen the guy drill a nice shot against the post in the past (man, does that feel like a long time ago), but somehow the guy seems to have got worse.

Vela's misses today were down to inexperience, but of course there's no way he could've previously usurped our resident wonderkid Eboue (who's been doing such a sterling job for us :roll: ). What a joke!

True, he needs some games. But ironically, if he wants to play more, he needs to stick the ****ing ball in the net when his chances came and stop swinging the ****ing foot in the air without even touching the ball.

 

[Anzac]

If Vela had started & had those opportunities early in the game IMO he'd have buried them - no pressure & little anxiety. He epitomised the lack of experience rife in the squad & the panic in our game as we are frustrated by the opposition.

For another example look at how we run the ball forward with the CBs late in the game. Our shape & style go out the window as we throw out the baby with the bath water. We abandon the basics of our game (team work & passing) as we become more & more desperate, and we don't have the game breakers to rely upon a piece of individual flair to open a game. Our style is designed for the ball to beat the man & we don't look to play individual skills 1 v 1, yet this is almost what we expect to happen in circumstances late in any game like today.

 

[AnthonyG]

For another example look at how we run the ball forward with the CBs late in the game. Our shape & style go out the window as we throw out the baby with the bath water.

We started doing that way too early - if it wasn't Toure pushing up to the half and hoofing in an aimless ball, it was Gallas rushing up and getting in the way of people in the build-up and in and around the box. A couple of times it hindered our ability to win back or keep the ball as we were left short at the back, wasting precious time in the process.

 

[Anzac]

For another example look at how we run the ball forward with the CBs late in the game. Our shape & style go out the window as we throw out the baby with the bath water.

We started doing that way too early - if it wasn't Touré pushing up to the half and hoofing in an aimless ball, it was Gallas rushing up and getting in the way of people in the build-up and in and around the box. A couple of times it hindered our ability to win back or keep the ball as we were left short at the back, wasting precious time in the process.

and leaves us exposed to conceeding late goals on the counter........

 

[McIntyre]

True, he needs some games. But ironically, if he wants to play more, he needs to stick the f****g ball in the net when his chances came and stop swinging the f****g foot in the air without even touching the ball.

Well, I'm not a card carrying member of the Carlos Vela Fan Club, but even I can see that if we'd spent more time developing his talent instead of wasting our time playing out Arsène's masochistic fantasy of playing Eboue no matter what the game what the situation, then we might have had a more polished article taking a pop at goal today.

It seems painfully hypocritical to hear Arsène talk about his faith in his younger players, when the most glaring opportunity to play a youngster has been in replacing the continuously atrocious Eboue.

The guy gives us nothing that Vela or one of the other youngsters couldn't give us. Any experience he has over the younger players is evened out by his own immaturity and technical inability.

We should've been giving Carlos more game time to prepare him for trying to rescue our season with two swings of his left peg. But, oh no, we instead played Eboue whose left peg I'm sure is useless, because his right is pretty f*cking worthless too.

 

[General]

Song playing the more advanced role in midfield was just bizarre. Every time I looked up, he was jogging into the opposition’s half with no purpose whatsoever whiles Denilson stayed behind to enact his expertise in lateral passing. I know Song is a lot of things but an attacking midfielder? What has the world come to!! Some of us also warned against this Robin/Bendtner combination. Quite simply have a look at the huge disparity in movement in the final third between the Cardiff game and this one.

We had chaces more than enough to score 3 goals. This is bullshit when some of you say the midfeld was not good or this player was not poor. We had enough chances to win the game comfortably but we missed them from Vela 2, Bentdner 2, Kolo 1, Arshavin 2, RVP 2 and Gallas 1 ...I mean can somebody tell me when you have all these chances created and you can not score ONE GOAL. This is just a joke !!!! The team is good to win many games but they are F***ING wasteful and lazy. Someone says if the team is not ambitious I am not signing a new contract. PUT THE F***ing BALL in the net when you get a chance and win games that makes the team ambitious.

We sure did create enough chances to win the game. It could however be argued that Sunderland also deserved a draw, having created some chances of their own. I guess what annoyed most people was our relaxed approach and often low percentage play. At no point did we look to be overwhelming them with constant pressure and we seem incapable of raising the tempo when needed. Constant pressure is what forces the opposition to buckle not the ‘few and far between chances’ we mustered, mostly allowing Sunderland to regroup in their spoiling tactics.

We looked perilously vulnerable when we started launching forward late in the first half with total disregard for the shape of the team. There was a period in added time when we couldn’t even get the ball of them ffs. Such is the incompetence of this team and tactically they are as inept as they come.

 

[kel varnsen]

what was truly disappointing yesterday, was that sunderland was able to keep possession for extended periods of time. they passed the ball around, forcing us to chase the ball. at the 70th minute or so, the possession stats were 50/50. when was the last time that happened? at home? to a **** side?

we were terribly disjointed and didn't even work together. as a team. individual players tried to put the sunderland players under pressure, but that is as futile as a shot at goal by eboue. to win back the ball, you need coordinated pressure. close down space and the player with the ball; at the same time. we didn't do that yesterday. no individual player can be blamed for that, but our central midfield is horrible these days. mindbogglingly bad.

 

[Asterix]

Things are getting bad when I start thinking - "oh, Eboue looks quite direct". Which he was - his last two games he's actually run at defenders with pace and unsettled them - more than Nasri has done, but I mean, come on.

This is just getting silly.