Arsenal vs Derby - Match Review and Player Ratings

[asajoseph]

I don't know what it is about Kolo's distribution that you think is so good, unless you consider aimless hoofing of the ball up the pitch to be 'good distribution'.

Senderos' is actually very calm on the ball, and almost always finds the right outlet in midfield. He almost never just aimlessly thumps it, like Kolo so often does. And I consider that 'good distribution'.

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Fabianski 6
Toure 7
Gallas 5.5
Song 5.5
Clichy 7
Denilson 7
Cesc 8
Eboue 6
Walcott 7.5
van Persie 6
Bendtner 8

Adebayor 8
Gilberto 5
Djourou 5

 

[arsmile]

I don't know what it is about Kolo's distribution that you think is so good, unless you consider aimless hoofing of the ball up the pitch to be 'good distribution'.

Senderos' is actually very calm on the ball, and almost always finds the right outlet in midfield. He almost never just aimlessly thumps it, like Kolo so often does. And I consider that 'good distribution'.

right...i dont think he ever looks calm on the ball..and he usually passes the short ball the the CM..if that ball isnt on and he has to do anything technically not easy, he struggles, i was talking more about a direct comparison to song- i've on a number of occasions been annoyed at toure's hoofs, but i think that is because i know he has a passing range but he's not composed enough to use it...if senderos has any pressure on him he hoofs it too though i think....he is the least capable pure 'footballer' in the squad..but maybe you have got something...next time i see him i'll remember to play closer attention to this- i'll get back to you!

 

[Ooh to be a gooner]

I don't know what it is about Kolo's distribution that you think is so good, unless you consider aimless hoofing of the ball up the pitch to be 'good distribution'.

Senderos' is actually very calm on the ball, and almost always finds the right outlet in midfield. He almost never just aimlessly thumps it, like Kolo so often does. And I consider that 'good distribution'.

I'm amazed that someone would argue that Senderos is a better passer of the ball than Toure! It's a frankly laughable suggestion, if it weren't so insulting to Toure.

The reason why AW played Toure as a CDM in the past and is now playing him in the RB position is because he has faith that he has the necessary touch and technique and passing ability to perform well there. Case in point was the wonderfully lofted ball from him yesterday that set up RvP to score. Never would Senderos be able to execute a pass like that!

Can you ever imagine Senderos being employed anywhere other than as a CB? And whilst his lack of pace and mobility may also contribute to his ineptness in other positions, his passing would also be a key factor.

 

[asajoseph]

I'm amazed that someone would argue that Senderos is a better passer of the ball than Touré! It's a frankly laughable suggestion, if it weren't so insulting to Touré.

More nonsense. Watch him play, watch him hoof, watch him loose his composure and regularly the ball too. Toure is incredibly uncomposed in possession accross the back. Nothing wrong with hitting it long sometimes, but Toure does it far too much.

The reason why AW played Touré as a CDM in the past and is now playing him in the RB position is because he has faith that he has the necessary touch and technique and passing ability to perform well there.

And it hardly worked a treat, did it, on what, the one or two occasions he was forced to do it. Wenger also played Eboue at RM - not exactly a blindingly successful experiment, and a very obvious example of why people with no composure on the ball shouldn't be playing in midfield.


I don't care how Senderos performs in other positions. He's a centre-back, and as such, I want him to pass like a centre back. And, for all his other flaws, he does this well.

 

[banduan]

Moore -6794028479

Gawdalmighty ya pubby

Edit: In case he feels lonely, I fully agree with Asa on Senderos' distribution.

In fact I'd calmly say he's our best defender on the ball.

Unfortunately, defending is a lot done off the ball.

 

[Ooh to be a gooner]

Asa you're obviously someone who knows very little about football if you believe that Senderos is a better passer of the ball than Toure.

I'm not trying to profess that Toure is a great passer of the ball, as your last post seemed to suggest, but rather that he is merely better than Senderos. Which for any football person would be an incontrovertible truth.

I noticed that you "forgot" to respond to the example I provided of Toure's passing ability taken from yesterdays game when you were deconstructing my post. Convenient!

I don't wish to try to change your mind on something that is so apparently self evident. We shall just have to agree to disagree..... again

 

[asajoseph]

You can't just accuse someone of knowing nothing about football, and then placidly offer to agree to disagree!

As it stands though, I still think you're talking rubbish. It's hardly a fact at all that Kolo's passing is far superior to Senderos', and no matter how many inventive ways you find of saying it, it's just not true. You've never really dealt with the issue that I raised earlier, in Toure's absurd tendency to just aimlessly thump the ball long from the back, when he finds himself under pressure. Senderos rarely does this, and almost always finds an outlet in midfield. These are facts, as anyone who'd watched these players much this season would know.

As I also said above, I judge a centre-back's distribution on what they do as a centre-back. For me, a centre-back's job, in terms of passing, is not massively complicated, but it's still something they need to be able to achieve with minimum fuss. Usually, this will be receiving the ball with your back to goal, nobody behind you, and finding an outlet in midfield with which to build an attack. It is NOT a defender's job to plasy 40 yard hollywood passes, pinpoint through-balls, or Beckham-esque lobs - if they are adept at this, brilliant, but if they aren't, they should not be trying. And, whilst I really thought Toure's pass for Van Persie's goal was a good pass assisted by some shocking defending, I don't judge him on his 'hollywood passes', but rather whether or not he does the basics well, and it's when you look at the basics that Senderos is so vastly superior.

 

[tactica442]

Asa you're obviously someone who knows very little about football if you believe that Senderos is a better passer of the ball than Touré.

I'm not trying to profess that Touré is a great passer of the ball, as your last post seemed to suggest, but rather that he is merely better than Senderos. Which for any football person would be an incontrovertible truth.

I beg to differ. When Senderos tries to pass the ball forward, opposition midfielders know where the ball would be going just by telling Senderos' body shape. There's the reason why Phil's forward passes are often being intercepted halfway.

 

[dutchMasta]

I agree with Asa on this, and I'll also include Gallas in on this. His long balls, if I recall right, have never made it to its target. They are truly shocking.

Toure does lump it up the pitch often, and this season, it's cost us a lot of possession and attacks, although we've managed to score from a few, I think it's more of a hindrance than a benefit.

General ground passing, none of our players look particularly comfortable on the ball, Song may be the most comfortable. Gallas and Toure are usually oversafe and just pass back, whereas Song and Senderos I've noticed usually take more risk in playing it out for the counter. It might lead to some shocking errors, but is usually works, and in time, hopefully, they can increase their efficiency, but I'd rather that than aimless hoofing anyday.

Toure's distribution isn't as great, or even good, as people make it out to be, and Senderos' (and even Song), while he does make some stupid decisions, are generally more positive and conducive to our play. It's consistency where they really need to improve on, though they've both got the talent. But I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice one spot for them yet, especially since we NEED a trophy next season, though something definitely needs to be done.

 

[True Gooner]

Toures distribution is average to awful most of the time, he does get the odd long ball right from time to time, like last night, but the times he just hoofs the ball up without any conviction outways his good passes.
Senderos, for all his other flaws, can pass the ball well, his passing has far more variety and purpose than Toures. The reason why Senderos doesnt play as a CDM or RB is because hes not quick or mobile enough, not because he cant pass. I dont see why this is such an insult to Toure either, players do have strenghts you know, and just because hes Senderos doesnt mean that hes **** at whatever he does.

 

[Ooh to be a gooner]

You can't just accuse someone of knowing nothing about football, and then placidly offer to agree to disagree!

As it stands though, I still think you're talking rubbish. It's hardly a fact at all that Kolo's passing is far superior to Senderos', and no matter how many inventive ways you find of saying it, it's just not true. You've never really dealt with the issue that I raised earlier, in Touré's absurd tendency to just aimlessly thump the ball long from the back, when he finds himself under pressure. Senderos rarely does this, and almost always finds an outlet in midfield. These are facts, as anyone who'd watched these players much this season would know.

As I also said above, I judge a centre-back's distribution on what they do as a centre-back. For me, a centre-back's job, in terms of passing, is not massively complicated, but it's still something they need to be able to achieve with minimum fuss. Usually, this will be receiving the ball with your back to goal, nobody behind you, and finding an outlet in midfield with which to build an attack. It is NOT a defender's job to plasy 40 yard hollywood passes, pinpoint through-balls, or Beckham-esque lobs - if they are adept at this, brilliant, but if they aren't, they should not be trying. And, whilst I really thought Touré's pass for Van Persie's goal was a good pass assisted by some shocking defending, I don't judge him on his 'hollywood passes', but rather whether or not he does the basics well, and it's when you look at the basics that Senderos is so vastly superior.

I provide you with a specific example of Toure's superior technical ability and you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion. And in return you base your argument on some alleged general tendency about Toure being wanton in his passing whereas Senderos is cool and composed! When the reality is that the one two's that Toure is doing with Eboue down the flank would be simply unthinkable for Senderos, the crossing that Toure executed yesterday were also not in the realms of possibility for Senderos. These are all clear indicators of Toure's passing ability, where he surpasses Senderos. That's manifestly incontestable.

And yet you still maintain that 1) Senderos is better at passing than Toure and 2) you're knowledgeable about football!

I can't take you seriously when you reveal your complete ignorance about the beautiful game.

Now if you need a lesson in the finer details of football, you just let me know, and I'll be sure to teach you, whenever and wherever it's most convenient for you.

 

[asajoseph]

I provide you with a specific example of Touré's superior technical ability and you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion.

Because it's a specific example. It certainly is NOT indicative of Kolo's overall play.

He isn't playing those balls week-in, week-out, and one pass to Van Persie doesn't make him a brilliant passer.

When the reality is that the one two's that Touré is doing with Eboue down the flank would be simply unthinkable for Senderos, the crossing that Touré executed yesterday were also not in the realms of possibility for Senderos.

Again, you're still completely missing the point that I made, rather clearly to you, that I'm judging what a player does as a centre-back. Do centre backs generally get onto the wings to make crosses into the box? Do centre backs generally charge forward down the right flank playing one-twos with the midfield? No, of course they don't. And it's the very specific situations that Kolo finds himself in, when he plays centre-back that highlight the problems he has with his distribution, and the difficulty is poses our overall game.

And I suggest you make an effort to get over the rather high opinion you seem to have of yourself - disagree with me all you want to, but if you decide you want to make it personal, you'll find yourself banned extremely quickly.

 

[Ooh to be a gooner]

I provide you with a specific example of Touré's superior technical ability and you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion.

Because it's a specific example. It certainly is NOT indicative of Kolo's overall play.

He isn't playing those balls week-in, week-out, and one pass to Van Persie doesn't make him a brilliant passer.

When the reality is that the one two's that Touré is doing with Eboue down the flank would be simply unthinkable for Senderos, the crossing that Touré executed yesterday were also not in the realms of possibility for Senderos.

Again, you're still completely missing the point that I made, rather clearly to you, that I'm judging what a player does as a centre-back. Do centre backs generally get onto the wings to make crosses into the box? Do centre backs generally charge forward down the right flank playing one-twos with the midfield? No, of course they don't. And it's the very specific situations that Kolo finds himself in, when he plays centre-back that highlight the problems he has with his distribution, and the difficulty is poses our overall game.

And I suggest you make an effort to get over the rather high opinion you seem to have of yourself - disagree with me all you want to, but if you decide you want to make it personal, you'll find yourself banned extremely quickly.

You obviously are a deeply insecure little man. You have made this personal. Having the ability to remove someone who disagrees with you is your prerogative, and if you feel it's justified then do it. But don't threaten me.

 

[Clrnc]

Fabianski - 6
Touré - 6
Song - 6
Gallas - 6
Clichy - 7
Eboue - 6
Cesc - 8
Denilson - 7
Walcott - 7.5
Bendtner - 9
Van Persie - 7

Gilberto - 6
Adebayor - 9
Djourou - 6

 

[asajoseph]

I provide you with a specific example of Touré's superior technical ability and you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion.

Because it's a specific example. It certainly is NOT indicative of Kolo's overall play.

He isn't playing those balls week-in, week-out, and one pass to Van Persie doesn't make him a brilliant passer.

When the reality is that the one two's that Touré is doing with Eboue down the flank would be simply unthinkable for Senderos, the crossing that Touré executed yesterday were also not in the realms of possibility for Senderos.

Again, you're still completely missing the point that I made, rather clearly to you, that I'm judging what a player does as a centre-back. Do centre backs generally get onto the wings to make crosses into the box? Do centre backs generally charge forward down the right flank playing one-twos with the midfield? No, of course they don't. And it's the very specific situations that Kolo finds himself in, when he plays centre-back that highlight the problems he has with his distribution, and the difficulty is poses our overall game.

And I suggest you make an effort to get over the rather high opinion you seem to have of yourself - disagree with me all you want to, but if you decide you want to make it personal, you'll find yourself banned extremely quickly.

You obviously are a deeply insecure little man. You have made this personal. Having the ability to remove someone who disagrees with you is your prerogative, and if you feel it's justified then do it. But don't threaten me.

Suit yourself.

*shrugs*

 

[Juicy]

I provide you with a specific example of Touré's superior technical ability and you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion.

Because it's a specific example. It certainly is NOT indicative of Kolo's overall play.

He isn't playing those balls week-in, week-out, and one pass to Van Persie doesn't make him a brilliant passer.

When the reality is that the one two's that Touré is doing with Eboue down the flank would be simply unthinkable for Senderos, the crossing that Touré executed yesterday were also not in the realms of possibility for Senderos.

Again, you're still completely missing the point that I made, rather clearly to you, that I'm judging what a player does as a centre-back. Do centre backs generally get onto the wings to make crosses into the box? Do centre backs generally charge forward down the right flank playing one-twos with the midfield? No, of course they don't. And it's the very specific situations that Kolo finds himself in, when he plays centre-back that highlight the problems he has with his distribution, and the difficulty is poses our overall game.

And I suggest you make an effort to get over the rather high opinion you seem to have of yourself - disagree with me all you want to, but if you decide you want to make it personal, you'll find yourself banned extremely quickly.

You obviously are a deeply insecure little man. You have made this personal. Having the ability to remove someone who disagrees with you is your prerogative, and if you feel it's justified then do it. But don't threaten me.

Suit yourself.

*shrugs*

Did you ban him? Seems a bit harsh. You did say he was talking 'rubbish' and 'nonsense' on page 1. Also surely you talking about him having a high opinion of himself is in itself getting personal.

 

[asajoseph]

Yes, I did.

And as far as I'm concerned, it's justified. I won't ban anyone who calls my opinion 'laughable', though I expect anyone who does so would at least have the courtesy to a) explain their own opinion, and b) be able to deal with a retort on a similar level without resorting to arguments which revolve around ad hominem.

I consider comments like this, to be over the line:

Now if you need a lesson in the finer details of football, you just let me know, and I'll be sure to teach you, whenever and wherever it's most convenient for you.

I can't take you seriously when you reveal your complete ignorance about the beautiful game.

[...]you dismiss it and demean it because it doesn't fit in with your comical opinion.

 

[Juicy]

Yeah I suppose. This is probably why I wouldn't make a very good moderator.

 

[asajoseph]

Work hard, young Sashakal, and one day who knows what you may achieve! j/k

Anyway, where were we...