Arsenal vs Swansea Ratings Thread

[outlaw_member]

Still stand by your Sinclair>Theo comment, Outie?

I think we can all agree that Theo is very effective under the right conditions. However, we are always talking about how we could better cover up his flaws, as opposed to looking at ways through which we can increase his influence. Which I believe says it in regards to just how talented Walcott is as a footballer. Sinclair is still an unproven quantity at this level, whilst Walcott will undoubtedly have a better season by virtue of playing for a far superior team. However, if you asked me whether we'd be better as a team if Sinclair were in place of Walcott, I'd say absolutely.

 

[caek]

Sczcesny (6.5) - Made a few good saves, especially that one in the first half. Was commanding in the area and generally claimed most balls that were floated in. Minus a few shaky moments like the one right at the end, he generally had a good game.

Sagna (6.5) - Had to be in top form today and he did just enough to contain the threat.

Koscielny (6.5) - A decent game from Kos I thought. Read the game well and intercepted a lot of through balls.

Per (6.0) - Should probably give him a lower score but I'm considering the fact that this is his first PL game and he'll still need time to adjust. That being said, positionally he wasn't too bad. His lack of pace was blatant but his presence in the box was undoubtedly a concern for Swansea. That and also the fact that every time a ball was crossed into the box from a set peice, I though he was going to score. Heck, so did the crowd.

Gibbs (6.0) - Gibbs is brilliant going forward, but defensively, not so much. He wasn't too bad today but he struggled when Sinclair switched sides for a bit to the right. The thing is, Gibbs does provide a good option in our attacking play, because simply put, he's always bloody there. That first time cross for Chamakh in the end was stellar. Needs to work on the the defensive aspect of his game.

Frimpong (5.0) - He broke up play but everything else he did wasn't too smart. I suppose one can argue that he's there to do just that- break up their play. There was something lacking in his decision making and passing today but at least he didn't get sent off.

Arteta (6.5) - Had a good game and was generally better in the first half where he played further up the pitch. He was largely anonymous in the 2nd half but I think he put in a real shift. Decent debut.

Ramsey (6.0) - Was everywhere in the first half. Linked up well with Arteta and looked very sharp. Should have scored too, or passed when put through on goal. However, he completely disappeared in the 2nd half. I think this was mostly due to tiredness. That pass in the end where he found the only Swansea player in the back was unlucky. He should have done better there, but he was completely buggered by that time and it was with his weaker foot. I think he played better than our previous games and he's showing enough glimpses for me to justify him starting the game. I do think he needs a rest though.

Arshavin (6.0) - That goal he scored wasn't easy. Still had a lot to do there and took the chance well. I though he was actually better in the 2nd half too.

Walcott (4.0) - Worst player on the pitch for us. Whines about every bloody decision which really ticks me off. Just play football and play for the whistle. Almost all of his weaknesses were exposed today. That being said, he's still our main threat I reckon.

RVP (5.5) - Starved of the creativity that he needs to strive. There were a few good moments and had a few good chances too. That one where he hit the post was brilliant- I thought it was going in for sure.

Overall, I have to say I'm disappointed. We scraped through- and only just. We were good in the first 30 minutes, but after that we just seemed lost. Were lucky to get the goal because truth be told, I don't think we would have scored. There's a few things I am concerned about. Mainly, our structure on the left is non-existent. This is largely due to Arshavin drifting to a more central role far too often and Gibbs drifting forward. The problem here is that one of Arteta/Ramsey can fill that void, but when there's too much space left back there, there's nothing either of them can do. I think I noticed at least once that Arshavin drifted centrally and Gibbs was caught too far forward for him to get back and Ramsey desperately got back and covered. The problem is, he can't cover for both of them and so, Swansea had an opportunity. I am guessing this constant covering from Ramsey (and Arteta in the 2nd half) was one of the reasons why Ramsey looked drained in the end. Wenger needs to address this issue because against better teams, we would be thumped down that side. The right hand side of our team is fine because Sagna's consistently good and Walcott's pace ensures that teams don't push too far forward.

 

[MDGoonah41]

sneeze 6
sagna 6
mertesacker 6
kos 6.5
gibbs 5

arteta 6
ramsey 4
frimpong 4

theo 3
arshavin 5
rvp 4

subs meh

 

[ricky1985]

For someone who has spoken so much about the importance of Nasri playing on the correct side to get the best out of him, going as far as saying he's world class on one side and ineffective on the other - you sure do a good job ignoring that fact when assessing the contributions and abilities of Walcott and Sinclair, Outie.

Szczesny - 7. Overall he was very, very solid, but tried to do too much to get us over the line at the end with that corner and it nearly cost us. His distribution was outstanding today again.

Sagna - 7. Got beat twice by Sinclair, but the kid went at him one-on-one maybe 10 or more times throughout the match, so he did his usual solid defensive job, with little help.

Mertesacker - 7. Solid start. Has a a real presence about him that's nice to see.

Koscielny 7. Played really well for the most part, but was let down by a couple of rushes of blood. Needs to cut that out. For example, the tackle on Sinclair which brought him a yellow card was so unnecessary.

Gibbs - 6. Typical "I've just returned from an injury" performance from Kieran. Started slowly and looked rusty, lacking a bit of sharpness physically, and then got better and better as the game wore on.

Frimpong - 6. Got caught with Song's bug a little today, played too much as a midfielder and not enough as a defensive midfielder. Exposed a few of the flaws he needs to work on in his offensive game, but he was solid enough overall. Saved our arse on one particular occasion when Arshavin made the most disgraceful and lazy tackle on the touchline and left us completely exposed. Frimpong was there to cut out the pull back.

Ramsey - 7. Crazy ratings in here for Ramsey, especially when measured next to those given to Arteta (btw the stats say there performances were near identical). He played well first half, along with Arteta completely controlled the midfield and pushed Swansea deep into their defensive third. Tired in the last 25 minutes or so, most notably when he tried that through-ball at the end - which I hope is what's unduly influencing people's ratings - but, he passed well, tackled well, pressed well, and looked better than he has physically in a long while.

Arteta - 7. Similar to Ramsey really. Started well, showed all the class he has, and played 3 or 4 very good piercing, forward passes. Tired badly in the last 25-30 minutes though - I guess Everton players aren't as fit as our players, because he looked like the pace of our game hit him hard.

Walcott - 4. I can't take much more of Theo doing his Stanley Matthews impression on the right wing. Wenger; please wake up and realise the kid is not a touchline hugging winger and never will be. He moves central or to the left and immediately looks a different player, and yet we continue to station him wide right - it's baffling and so, so frustrating.

Arshavin - 5. Had a couple of moments of class, as he always does, but he doesn't give us anything like the threat or quality we need. Spends most of the game playing as a auxiliary 'Number 10', and does little of use from that position, but leaving us without a threat wide left as a result.

van Persie - 5. Houston we (may) have a problem. Robin is a fantastic goalscorer when he's getting good service, about as reliable as anyone else out there, and he's utterly brilliant at linking with marauding midfielders and helping them to score goals. However, with our midfielders now actually playing as midfielders - controlling possession, forcing the opposition back, finding forwards early and in space - Robin doesn't have those midfielders to link with. He's getting the ball in space, but he can't really hurt teams like that, he's not a ball carrier, he can dribble his way out of tight areas, work half a yard for himself, but he's not going to do much damage when he gets a defender one-on-one 30 yards from goal as, say, Theo or Gervinho would. Robin would still score plenty of goals if the wide forwards are, like the central midfielders, doing their job - which is getting in behind the opposition and getting good quality into Robin inside the box. Problem is Theo and Arshavin are not. Leaving Robin looking pretty isolated and ineffective across 90 minutes.

Subs
Coquelin - 6. Decent contribution. Lacks the power of a Premier League player right now, but is switched on tactically and good when in possession.

Benayoun - 6. Looked bright and busy, and created a good chance for Gibbs. A bit slack defensively on a few occasions though.

Chamakh 5. Gotta score that header Marouane! Looked a little livelier overall though.

Overall I think the game just went to show how incredibly low we are on confidence right now. The first half we played well, penned them into their defensive third, passed it well, but we couldn't make that count because we really lacked quality in the forward line. Our legs went about the 60th minute, we got nervous and limped over the line. At least we got the 3 points, but we're struggling big time right now.

 

[Floating]

@McIntyre

Wenger even said a bit later, it doesn't matter to him who gets the armband in that situation, when there're just a couple of minutes left on the clock.

I think that's a tragedy and an appalling dereliction of duty on Wenger's part.

The last few minutes are the prime moment when you need leadership and a guiding light. :!:

And Chamakh didn't even come on for the last couple of minutes, he came on at 81 mins and we played until 94 mins.

So that's 13 minutes where we were bereft of a focal point in our team. I don't buy that bullsh*t everybody is a leader on the pitch nonsense. Yes, they can be, but they aren't necessarily. That's why you're much better off assigning a leader as well as expecting everybody to pull their weight.

A bit of order and definition of duty goes a long way, rather than anarchy and mixed messages.

This is why Wenger is driving me up the wall and why I'm becoming increasingly in favour of him leaving! :x :x :x

I understand your frustration, but this myth that a captain gives a +10 bonus to the team mentality and ability or whatever is just ridiculous. The armband is little more than a piece of fabric.

Evra, the petulant little c*nt, captained Man Utd today, and they won 0-5 away. Do you seriously think the result or performance would have been different if Rooney or Ferdinand (both, in my opinion, more deserving of the armband than Evra) were captain? No.

I'm all for leadership in the squad, but players can be leaders without it, and just because players have the armband on, doesn't make them any better, or the team any better.

 

[The Escaped Ape]

I largely agree with Fabo, Ricky and Caek (lazy or just knowing it's best not to repeat what's already been said, you decide). However, I'd rate RVP a bit higher than Ricky - he had a number of very good opportunities, a couple of which were very close to going in, but a few more that were wasted.

Overall, in terms of team performance, I was really disappointed by the lack of penetration and dynamism. Lots and lots of pissing round with the ball in the the space between the halfway line and the final third looking for the perfect opening (not going to come when you do this for long enough to allow 10 Swansea players to get behind the ball). There seemed to be a lack of courage and flair, which I guess you could blame the MU result for, alongside the fact that some of the players are new to the team.

I suspect that this result was perhaps what we needed after the Man U debacle. Something to settle us while we're still nervous, but with enough to remind the players that they've still got stuff to work on - Old Trafford was not just an abberation.

For example, Szczney was looking excellent for the first two thirds of the match, but showed classic Arsenal goalkeeper madness for the miraculous escape from the last Swansea chance, coming out and trying to punch the ball away through a packed group of three Swansea players and getting lost in the scrum and completely losing command of his area, leaving the goal wide open.

Also, the Kos and Mertesacker pairing looked vulnerable enough that I'm not suddenly convinced our days of being racked with doubt about our CB partnership our over. That said, however, Kos had some pretty dominant periods during the game where it almost felt to me that without him we would have been in a lot more trouble (only to mess it up by getting a bit too adventurous as a result). Also Mertesacker showed his ability to tackle effectively and cleanly, but then also had a number of important misses.

Others have mentioned the tiredness. Ramsey in particular did an Arshavin quite a few times (didn't quite get to a ball, so once it had gone past just stood there as if to say "well I went for it once and didn't reach it so now I can just sit back for the next couple of minutes"). Arshavin on the other hand played at the peak of his current powers (i.e. above average at times, managing to make a tackle on 1-2 occasions).

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ricky, I couldn't disagree more with your ratings. How can you give Ramsey 7 and Arshavin just 5? Frimpong higher than Arshavin too? Come on.

Arteta - 7. Similar to Ramsey really. Started well, showed all the class he has, and played 3 or 4 very good piercing, forward passes. Tired badly in the last 25-30 minutes though - I guess Everton players aren't as fit as our players, because he looked like the pace of our game hit him hard.

Not sure about that. In Arteta's first interview for Arsenal he said at Everton training they do "a lot more running" than at Arsenal, or something to that effect.

 

[Segway]

Szczesny 6 - He was solid generally but that mistake at the end could have been extremely costly.

Sagna 5.5 - Same old Sagna really.
Mertesacker 6 - Didn't impose himself nearly as strongly as I would have hoped.
Koscielny 7 - Took charge of the defense today.
Gibbs 4.5 - He took a lot of rash decisions and threw away possession at numerous occasions. I really hope Santos will be a massive improvement.

Frimpong 5.5 - Good attitude but some of his decision making is headless. However, I think he's showing great potential.
Ramsey 6 - There's still a lot of room for improvement but generally he holds the ball up well and he helped our midfield by taking off some of the pressure and help keep possession.
Arteta 6.5 - Linked up extremely well with RvP especially but he faded out of the game in the 2nd half. I think he'll be excellent for us.

Walcott 3 - Oh lawd. Theo with an attitude. A poor one, however.
Arshavin 7.5 - He found space extremely well for himself in the middle of the park and he exploited that to put Theo through for example. Took his goal well too. It was brilliant to see him play this good again. MOTM.
RvP 7 - Just a brilliant footballer. He was unlucky not to score.

 

[fabo]

Haha, Ricky is definitely wumming there!

 

[jay-d]

RvP 7 - Just a brilliant footballer. He was unlucky not to score.

How does this work? RVP was crap bar one moment, when he hit the post. It seems all he has to do is turn up stroll around to get praised. 7???

 

[Segway]

RvP 7 - Just a brilliant footballer. He was unlucky not to score.

How does this work? RVP was crap bar one moment, when he hit the post. It seems all he has to do is turn up stroll around to get praised. 7???

I thought he linked up tidily with the midfielders with his one touch passing thus creating chances for his midfielders to shoot and he kept the ball moving to up the pace of an otherwise quite static striking force. I agree he could definitely have done more though, but a 7 reflects a decent performance for me without actually being "good".

 

[outlaw_member]

For someone who has spoken so much about the importance of Nasri playing on the correct side to get the best out of him, going as far as saying he's world class on one side and ineffective on the other - you sure do a good job ignoring that fact when assessing the contributions and abilities of Walcott and Sinclair, Outie.

You know very well that I haven't ignored that fact, because we've had this discussion before, and I've stated on more than a number of occasions that I also feel that he'd be better off the left. However, the fact that Wenger has never played him there, makes it a case of wishful thinking, just like the Arshavin at SS argument. You can only excuse a player for so long with the argument that he's being misused, and if the manager isn't going to change it, then you've just got to accept the player for what he is. That's essentially the same way I was able to accept the loss of Nasri, and why I think Gervinho will be an upgrade over him, because I only factored in the version that he was in the position Wenger was likely to use him in.

In any case, it's ridiculous and awesome in equal measure that it will be Gervinho and not Arsène Wenger that will grant this wish of ours. With the former in the team, we interchange like never before with constant switches every other minute, whilst in his absence, we're lucky to see a switch more than once in the entire 90 minutes. As I said elsewhere, Gervinho will encourage Walcott and van Persie to float more, and they'll both be better for it.

 

[outlaw_member]

van Persie - 5. Houston we (may) have a problem. Robin is a fantastic goalscorer when he's getting good service, about as reliable as anyone else out there, and he's utterly brilliant at linking with marauding midfielders and helping them to score goals. However, with our midfielders now actually playing as midfielders - controlling possession, forcing the opposition back, finding forwards early and in space - Robin doesn't have those midfielders to link with. He's getting the ball in space, but he can't really hurt teams like that, he's not a ball carrier, he can dribble his way out of tight areas, work half a yard for himself, but he's not going to do much damage when he gets a defender one-on-one 30 yards from goal as, say, Theo or Gervinho would. Robin would still score plenty of goals if the wide forwards are, like the central midfielders, doing their job - which is getting in behind the opposition and getting good quality into Robin inside the box. Problem is Theo and Arshavin are not. Leaving Robin looking pretty isolated and ineffective across 90 minutes.

I absolutely agree. With the midfielders less likely to make piercing runs, he's going to desperately require the wide forwards to constantly support him if he is to produce quality performances. In a team unlikely to really dominate the game, he'll prove useless as the lone CF. Like you said, there were numerous times that Robin was in a one-on-one situation in a dangerous areas, and he couldn't do anything as he can't carry the ball.

Why couldn't we get a player who was a mix between van Persie and Walcott? :x Bloody half players. :cry: I really do not like our attackers, and I desperately hope Gervais is the answer.

 

[outlaw_member]

Walcott's problems down the right are also further exacerbated by Sagna. The fact that the latter can't carry the ball forward means that he routinely activates Walcott much deeper on the pitch. Sagna is incapable of advancing the play down his side without involving a forward pass to Walcott, so the latter has to constantly drop deep to collect the ball off him, which obviously places him in situations which you don't want to see him in. I think it was Patrick who criticised Walcott's decision to carry the ball, but someone has to do it. We can't have both Sagna and Walcott on the same side, both of whom can't dribble for toffee, as it then places even greater emphasis on passing and movement.

 

[celestis]

Judging by his performances this season Gervaise will play close to Van Persie .

Oh and I forgot when Wilshere gets back he will punch on into the penalty area .

 

[celestis]

Walcott's problems down the right are also further exacerbated by Sagna. The fact that the latter can't carry the ball forward means that he routinely activates Walcott much deeper on the pitch. Sagna is incapable of advancing the play down his side without involving a forward pass to Walcott, so the latter has to constantly drop deep to collect the ball off him, which obviously places him in situations which you don't want to see him in. I think it was Patrick who criticised Walcott's decision to carry the ball, but someone has to do it. We can't have both Sagna and Walcott on the same side, both of whom can't dribble for toffee, as it then places even greater emphasis on passing and movement.

Thats exactly my thoughts on the matter , if you want Walcott to be effective you need a right back capable of carrying the ball out of defence and also able to slip a ball to Walcott in the final third , which is what makes Wenger buying Jenkinson even more mystifying .

 

[outlaw_member]

It's difficult to criticise a model professional like Sagna, as the qualities he offers have been all too rare at Arsenal over the past however many years. But people really do overlook how detrimental he can be to the team in an attacking sense. Sagna routinely receives the ball inside his own half no doubt due to his position, and 9 times out of 10, he'll instantly play a pass to Walcott who is standing on the half way line. An area which Walcott should not be receiving the ball in, and furthermore we end up losing an advanced passing option down the channel, because both the flankers are now behind the ball.

Does anyone remember yesterday when we started a counter with Sagna who was running forward in our half, and Walcott was also moving 5 yards ahead of him who almost immediately received a pass from the Frenchman? So without even having entered the opponents half, we had already lost the ability to exploit space down the right channel, which is hardly conducive to an effective counter-attack.

A better offensive fullback when receiving the ball in his half would either dribble down the line, or combine with the midfielders to advance the play, and only bring Walcott into the game deeper in the opponents half. Having said that, it all has to be made convenient for Walcott which isn't a good thing, at all.

The less I think of Jenkinson, the better. Bloody Eboue would be a god send now. Carl's problem is that he's a poor mans Sagna, and I've never been perfectly happy with the rich version, so you can imagine how I feel about Jenkinson's ability.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The less I think of Jenkinson, the better. Bloody Eboue would be a god send now.

If you would honestly play Eboue over Sagna, I have to seriously reconsider my opinion of you.

 

[outlaw_member]

No, I meant in comparison to Jenkinson. I've always maintained that Eboue was better ahead of Sagna in certain games, even though the latter was rightly the first choice. Ideally, we'd have got a more reliable version of Eboue when he departed for Turkey. In any case, it would be extreme to reconsider your opinion of me based on one notion, don't you think? :wink:

Bah, I need to downgrade my expectations. Looks like I'd only be paining myself if I continue to place our greatest players as the barometer for current and future Arsenal first teamers.

 

[eye4goal]

A better offensive fullback when receiving the ball in his half would either dribble down the line, or combine with the midfielders to advance the play, and only bring Walcott into the game deeper in the opponents half. Having said that, it all has to be made convenient for Walcott which isn't a good thing, at all.

Abit irrelevent to the situation but I think the midfield is the bigger problem really. They are not advancing play and too often it's down to full-back to do so when his job is primarily to support. It could be congested in midfield but that's where a good midfield is useful. I still wouldn't blame Sagna for the failings of Walcott. The forward should be the main act so we can't really expect Sagna to advance the ball and then make the through pass for Walcott. City and Utd don't have an elite FB and it has not stopped them from scoring bucket-loads. Right now I think the following front 6 would give us a better balance

-----------Walcott

Benayoun-----RVP------Gervinho

--------Song-----Arteta