Arsène Wenger: Same Old Class

[Goonerozil33]

Oh really ? You forgot that Mourinho won CL with Inter and in that times there were about 5 teams that were better than them in Europe.

Inter had a wage bill much more than their income that season. When wenger has that freedom i am pretty sure he can win us CL.

SAF used to win PL titles with some average teams.

Mediocre teams :O, Their teams always had experienced and talented players in abundance. What they also had was the money to have numbers in the squad with hard working players. The last time they won the league, they had Rooney,Carrick,Scholes,RVP,Vidic,Rio,Evra,De Gea etc in the team.In addition they had players like Young,Welbeck,Kagawa,Rafael etc who were hard working and good rotation options. What Man U had was mediocre managers after SAF left. Their players are really good. Even now their team is a good one,with a lot of experience and high quality signing. If Arsenal had an attack with zlatan,Mata,Martial,Rashford and Mkhitaryan we will score more goals than what Man U did.

Yes,they spent money,that's modern football.I don't see problem with that,you have to adopt to the situation.

We can adapt only to an extend. We had money since we signed Özil. Even then we had less than Chelsea, Man U and Man City. In the last 3 years we are able to close the gap in quality with these 3 teams. They had many years of big spending. If we dont have an advantage in spending we should have other advantages which money cannot provide. Like more rest which will come with being out of Europe. Unfortunately or not we are unable to have that.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Wenger had his chance last season.I won't even be that angry and sad if he doesn't win this season.We have to be real,there is probably 3 managers that are better than Wenger and 2 teams that have better squad than us.That's enough to finish in our normal spot.

Think this is too generous. Doubt we will be top four at the end of the season. If Özil or Sanchez get injured we are toast. Think this season is hanging by a thread to be honest. We have been getting results but we haven't been good all season.

 

[Notorious Big]

Inter had a wage bill much more than their income that season. When wenger has that freedom i am pretty sure he can win us CL.
Mediocre teams :O, Their teams always had experienced and talented players in abundance. What they also had was the money to have numbers in the squad with hard working players. The last time they won the league, they had Rooney,Carrick,Scholes,RVP,Vidic,Rio,Evra,De Gea etc in the team.In addition they had players like Young,Welbeck,Kagawa,Rafael etc who were hard working and good rotation options. What Man U had was mediocre managers after SAF left. Their players are really good. Even now their team is a good one,with a lot of experience and high quality signing. If Arsenal had an attack with zlatan,Mata,Martial,Rashford and Mkhitaryan we will score more goals than what Man U did.
We can adapt only to an extend. We had money since we signed Özil. Even then we had less than Chelsea, Man U and Man City. In the last 3 years we are able to close the gap in quality with these 3 teams. They had many years of big spending. If we dont have an advantage in spending we should have other advantages which money cannot provide. Like more rest which will come with being out of Europe. Unfortunately or not we are unable to have that.

That won' change anything.They were very good side before he came,played CL regularly and they were quite ****e after he left.I talked about quality of others teams in Europe in that times.There weren't so many surprises in CL winner in last 10 years or so and first favourites in the most cases won title at the end.

I was little bit harsh when i said average.But in later years they weren't the best squad in the league by players.That players you mention weren't in that high level in season 2012/13.You can't compare them in 2008 and 2013.Just look at United's game in 2007,2008 and 2009 with that players and in 2011,2012,2013.Difference in quality.

I think there are other factors that cost us the title at the end,not just the lack of money.Look just at some seasons that we were quite close to win something and we failed.We had enough quality to compete in some seasons,but we were **** in the most important periods of the seasons.Weak mentality.

 

[Makingtrax]

If Arsenal had an attack with zlatan,Mata,Martial,Rashford and Mkhitaryan we will score more goals than what Man U did.

Top post. Add Memphis and Rooney to that list as well

Was forced to watch them the other night as I missed our game and watched the highlights after Man U.

The strength of that squad is mind blowing. It cost a fortune. Why Mourinho isn't well clear is a mystery.

 

[Goonerozil33]

That won' change anything.They were very good side before he came,played CL regularly and they were quite ****e after he left.I talked about quality of others teams in Europe in that times.There weren't so many surprises in CL winner in last 10 years or so and first favourites in the most cases won title at the end.

They burnt themself financially by the time he left. They bought 30 year old players on high contracts who all performed for one season. It was not a long term plan. And they are suffering as a club mainly because of bad financial judgement in that season. But at the end of the day Inter owner agreed to that financial harakiri. My point is as long as our owner does not agree to something like that, i am not willing to blame it on Wenger.

I was little bit harsh when i said average.But in later years they weren't the best squad in the league by players.That players you mention weren't in that high level in season 2012/13.You can't compare them in 2008 and 2013.Just look at United's game in 2007,2008 and 2009 with that players and in 2011,2012,2013.Difference in quality.

They were players of high quality. They had 10 such players who were at the peak or just declining. And that along with other hard working players to fill in whenever needed they were able to win it that season. For example look at Carrick. He is still playing well now. But looking at the time during Moyes, it looked like he has lost it.

Look just at some seasons that we were quite close to win something and we failed.We had enough quality to compete in some seasons,but we were **** in the most important periods of the seasons.Weak mentality.

Most of the time it was injuries and bac luck. A bunch of mentally strong players alone will not win a league. The simple fact is we did not have the required quality. In 2007-08 we were up against the best two teams in Europe. People blame Gallas sit down,Clichy penalty etc. But the simple fact was we did not have a large squad(Due to not being able to afford it). But Man U and Chelsea had that. If anything most of these years we maximised our best players abilities and made sure the weaker players supported them sufficiently. Even now i don t think our squad has sufficient quality. Compared to Man U our defence has better individual quality. But they are better in midfield and attack. Our attack is worse than that of City, United and Chelsea in terms of individual quality.

 

[Makingtrax]

Think this is too generous. Doubt we will be top four at the end of the season. If Özil or Sanchez get injured we are toast. Think this season is hanging by a thread to be honest. We have been getting results but we haven't been good all season.

It's not too generous because Wenger has managed it for twenty yesrs in a row against huge odds.

But I agree about the squad depth. We have 1 good team in our locker and that included Santi. Take out those key players and those coming in are not up to taking on the likes of City, United and Chelsea. Particularly Jenkinson, Holding, and Gabriel. But our squad is down around £300 m, there's are nearer £500 million.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

- Bellerin.

The Wenger Effect.

Wenger not only made the club but also the majority of the players who are at the club.

 

[4R5Emaniac]

To repeat myself once again, the owner doesn't do tactical preparation and Wenger has had different set of players with similar injury record over the years. Medical staff have changed too. Money didn't protect us from getting shafted by Birmingham,Monaco, Zagreb or PL smaller teams over and over again.

As for Mourinho, he won the treble twice with non favorite clubs. Wenger has 1 CL final at countless attempts. Thats an awful record.

 

[Vinci]

Özil and Alexis not signing new contracts or leaving, because Wenger won't stay is bullcrap in my opinion.

Other clubs change manager all the time, but do their best players leave? No, of course not. And if another manager comes in who does well, why would they want to leave anyway.

 

[rich 1990]

Wenger supporters using other clubs as their only defence as usual. What Maureen does is irrelevant to Wenger

 

[TriniGunner]

Özil and Alexis not signing new contracts or leaving, because Wenger won't stay is bullcrap in my opinion.

Other clubs change manager all the time, but do their best players leave? No, of course not. And if another manager comes in who does well, why would they want to leave anyway.

Wenger is a massive reason why players want to join this club and stay here longer than they may like to.

 

[Vinci]

Wenger is a massive reason why players want to join this club and stay here longer than they may like to.

Nah, I don't believe it.

We'll see what happens. One day.

 

[Notorious Big]

They burnt themself financially by the time he left. They bought 30 year old players on high contracts who all performed for one season. It was not a long term plan. And they are suffering as a club mainly because of bad financial judgement in that season. But at the end of the day Inter owner agreed to that financial harakiri. My point is as long as our owner does not agree to something like that, i am not willing to blame it on Wenger.

They were players of high quality. They had 10 such players who were at the peak or just declining. And that along with other hard working players to fill in whenever needed they were able to win it that season. For example look at Carrick. He is still playing well now. But looking at the time during Moyes, it looked like he has lost it.

Most of the time it was injuries and bac luck. A bunch of mentally strong players alone will not win a league. The simple fact is we did not have the required quality. In 2007-08 we were up against the best two teams in Europe. People blame Gallas sit down,Clichy penalty etc. But the simple fact was we did not have a large squad(Due to not being able to afford it). But Man U and Chelsea had that. If anything most of these years we maximised our best players abilities and made sure the weaker players supported them sufficiently. Even now i don t think our squad has sufficient quality. Compared to Man U our defence has better individual quality. But they are better in midfield and attack. Our attack is worse than that of City, United and Chelsea in terms of individual quality.

We just get off track a little bit.I wrote that Inter won CL in 2010 and there were about 5 teams that were better than them in that times.Tell me,when Wenger would do that ? We were in only one final in CL in the history of the club.I can say that Inter were **** quite after that,they started to fail very quickly after Mourinho left them.They had a lot of players who won CL that year.I can remember that from 2006,only Inter and Chelsea weren't the first favourites to win CL and they did it.And maybe Real last season.

Quality of the players doesen't mean good form.Please just look at some matches of Utd in 2008 and some matches in 2013.Do you see difference ? Players had some quality,but they weren't in their best form.Same goes with Arsenal.We had similar players in 2002,2004,2006.But do you see difference in the game and results ?

Nah,it's not bad luck and lack of quality.If you can compete with Utd and Chelsea until April and after that you start to fail and to lose or draw matches,that is a sign of bad mentality.You're not good in the most important periods of the season.If we didn't have quality to comepte with them,we would fell short in October or November,not April.Just look at our results in that crucial periods of the season.

 

[Trilly]

1. He struggles to adequately prepare his teams for a title challenge.
2. He is imo unable to make a team more than the sum of its parts. We struggle* as soon as we come up against a team with: tactical nous or similar/better players than us.

These two are probably the two most important things you want in a manager yet he has defenders. I don't mind keeping him on to wait for someone with pedigree but I certainly don't agree with the view that he can actually take us anywhere.

*Of course it's normal to struggle against similar or better teams but you know what I mean.

 

[James Bond]

Top post. Add Memphis and Rooney to that list as well

Was forced to watch them the other night as I missed our game and watched the highlights after Man U.

The strength of that squad is mind blowing. It cost a fortune. Why Mourinho isn't well clear is a mystery.

hmm...

People like to talk up manager on manager stats but football is far more complicated than that sort of simplistic stuff.

I keep saying this and it's true;when two teams are very close in standard it's often chance that decides a match . . . a sending off, a penalty, a key injury, a ball that hits the post and bounces out instead of in. Referees in particular decide the outcome in many games.

To actually know if one manager is better than another is almost impossible to judge as so many other variables come into play. It's like devising a fair science experiment, all variables have to be kept constant to make a valid conclusion.

Injuries, bad luck, hitting the post, ref decisions etc, duh.

Oh wait, sorry but are those only used by you to defend Wenger and Wenger only for failing to get the best out of his squad?

 

[Rimaal]

It was time to go 3 years to go, he's now well overdue. Tick Tock...

 

[GDeep™]

Nah, I don't believe it.

We'll see what happens. One day.

All we have is what the players say.

 

[Makingtrax]

hmm...


Injuries, bad luck, hitting the post, ref decisions etc, duh.

Oh wait, sorry but are those only used by you to defend Wenger and Wenger only for failing to get the best out of his squad?

James, what's the connection between a post about the strength of the United squad and a post about matches between 2 very close teams?

Think Blofeld is getting to you

 

[Sir Bump]

Wenger not only made the club but also the majority of the players who are at the club.

Not sure I can pick this up without my sarcasm radar on ?

 

[Sir Bump]

The team/squad is always a reflection of the man manageing it.

We play with nice respect for others, aethsetically pleasing and near enough is good enough.

That's Wenger. Admirable but lets dirty it up a bit with hunger, aggression and win at most costs.

Time was 5 years to move on.