CL| Borussia Dortmund v Arsenal (A), 7.45pm 13/9, SS4

[patrick42uk]

To be honest, watching the first half again, what Dortmund did then was put players in our half, without actually pressing the ball. That's less energy sapping, and it did work because we couldnt play past it. But its not a strategy a premiership team can adopt because teams will go long.

Benayoun and Arteta didnt do enough. The should have been coming deep to take the ball off the back 4 and advance play. Also think playing 2 "wingers" made it more difficult to build up.

 

[arsenallegends]

There needs to be a balance between deep players and outlet transition players when a team is being pressed in its own half. Arteta and Benayoun were trying to support the attack because you can't have three isolated forwards go up against a wall, certainly not the ones of our calibre and out of such eagerness I guess your right they didn't come deep and support.That's a bit naiive if they thought they could recieve the ball through the opponent's midfield instead working their way their way past it. However sometimes the best way to release pressure of your defense is to provide that outlet. Out wide you usually have your wingers marked by offense full backs and if you stay forward in the midfield your influencing the opponents midfield back but I guess I didn't work.

 

[Anzac]

We continue to show our naievity by most of our players advancing so far foward ahead of the ball. This leaves the ball carrier (including the GK), with few real passing/support options. Too often we see them resort to a long ball played forward or a pass to a player who is already under pressure from his marker - both options are poor and often result in a loss of possession. Sagna's yellow for time wasting on a throw is a prime example regarding the lack of close options, and when he did throw the ball in we lost possession.

 

[celestis]

To be honest, watching the first half again, what Dortmund did then was put players in our half, without actually pressing the ball. That's less energy sapping, and it did work because we couldnt play past it. But its not a strategy a premiership team can adopt because teams will go long.

Benayoun and Arteta didnt do enough. The should have been coming deep to take the ball off the back 4 and advance play. Also think playing 2 "wingers" made it more difficult to build up.

They should have been coming deep , unfortunately we don't have the fullbacks to support them and move ahead of them . I have never seen one of our full backs pass to the goal keeper as much as gibbs did . Which by the way was probably wise in our current state.

 

[Jury]

You'll find that answer in THunter's response to you on page 19.

Which amounts to: My argument is truly bollocksed, but someone, somewhere, may have a point, even if it's irrelevant to what I posted when initially quoting you.

 

[outlaw_member]

To be honest, watching the first half again, what Dortmund did then was put players in our half, without actually pressing the ball. That's less energy sapping, and it did work because we couldnt play past it. But its not a strategy a premiership team can adopt because teams will go long.

Benayoun and Arteta didnt do enough. The should have been coming deep to take the ball off the back 4 and advance play. Also think playing 2 "wingers" made it more difficult to build up.

They should have been coming deep , unfortunately we don't have the fullbacks to support them and move ahead of them . I have never seen one of our full backs pass to the goal keeper as much as gibbs did . Which by the way was probably wise in our current state.

Sagna? Both of our fullbacks were absolutely atrocious, and the number one culprits for our inability to advance out of our own half. Pathetic display from Sagna yet again when he's been zoned off, and Gibbs was even worse.

 

[Anzac]

To be honest, watching the first half again, what Dortmund did then was put players in our half, without actually pressing the ball. That's less energy sapping, and it did work because we couldnt play past it. But its not a strategy a premiership team can adopt because teams will go long.

Benayoun and Arteta didnt do enough. The should have been coming deep to take the ball off the back 4 and advance play. Also think playing 2 "wingers" made it more difficult to build up.

They should have been coming deep , unfortunately we don't have the fullbacks to support them and move ahead of them . I have never seen one of our full backs pass to the goal keeper as much as gibbs did . Which by the way was probably wise in our current state.

It wasn't just about our flanks though - we never left our 'zones' to support the ball carrier, which is why Dortmund were able to just put bodies in between & not need to press.

Just watched an analysis on SBS which highlighted Kagawa playing more as SS than AMC, and being able to put pressure on the CBs and not being picked up by our midfield/Song. Essentially both Kagawa & a CM step forward off the ball to form a 21232 to put 5 players in our defensive 3rd.

They also highlighted that Dortmund's 3 behind the striker all compressed towards the ball in defence to put pressure on the back 4, and once possession was won they quickly spread across field to link with the advancing FB on the opposite flank so as to open the channels.

Basically Klopp's tactics worked to put pressure & numbers on our defence, and we got too far ahead of the ball (as usual) to be able to offer any support to the ball carrier.

 

[eye4goal]

Just watched an analysis on SBS which highlighted Kagawa playing more as SS than AMC, and being able to put pressure on the CBs and not being picked up by our midfield/Song. Essentially both Kagawa & a CM step forward off the ball to form a 21232 to put 5 players in our defensive 3rd.

The average positioning heat-map shows 8 Dortmund players played in our half whilst we only had the 3 forwards in theirs just ahead of the half-way line. It's no surprise we scored when we won the ball in their half and I think a smarter team would have picked them off more times.

 

[dreamLord]

I don't get it. With Dortmund playing so high up the pitch, they should have been vulnerable to counter, right? Yet we never had even half a counter. This team is so slow (not player wise) it's sad.

 

[AFCG7]

Not really , by playing a high defensive line ourselves we contributed to the cluttered midfield. Our midfield offered no sort of variation in forward passing at all, while Dortmund had some easy balls over the top and through our midfield to set up good goalscoring chances. The one other time Gervinho forced himself through he messed the chance up.
Theo and Gervinho should have stayed wide on the flanks a bit more and used their pace but this wasnt being done.

 

[arsenallegends]

You need the appropriate shape to the counter high pressure. I haven't felt this low in a long time. Wtf do we in training if not learning to keep the ball in tight areas and seek outlets who find space and mentally construct a team shape to maintain possession and counter? Like what was all that stuff about red and green lights in training? Does Arsène not see how **** we are at what was supposedly our strength? I'm so frustrated by this experience. We need to experiment by playing Robin in a deeper position or not playing both Theo and Gervinho in the starting line up or considering a change of formation.

 

[dreamLord]

Also, what's the point of playing a high line with Mertesacker? I fear the day we play any top striker with pace with this system. Rooney and Hernandez would enjoy playing against us for sure.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Also, what's the point of playing a high line with Mertesacker? I fear the day we play any top striker with pace with this system. Rooney and Hernandez would enjoy playing against us for sure.

Good point. We fared really well against them this season pre-Mertesacker, only conceding 8 times.

 

[MAK 14]

Schmelzer is also good.

He's top quality. I was so so impressed, great offensively and defensively. Gibbs should rewatch Tuesday's match and learn a thing or two off him.

 

[Floating]

I wanted Schmelzer before we signed Santos. He's definitely one to watch.

 

[fabo]

Schmelzer did look good, if the LB situation doesn't pan out as expected, we should go back for him.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Were we ever in for him? I don't remember any links.

 

[fabo]

I meant back to Germany!

 

[outlaw_member]

I don't get it. With Dortmund playing so high up the pitch, they should have been vulnerable to counter, right? Yet we never had even half a counter. This team is so slow (not player wise) it's sad.

Dortmund's plan was very straightforward. We are a short passing team. 99% of passes attempted by our 10 outfield players in any given game is a short pass. We use countless short passes in order to advance the ball from the first third to the final third. What Dortmund did, and Barcelona previously, was to block off all of the the short options available to the Arsenal player in possession in order to prevent him from completing a short pass. In truth, it actually shows just how little they rate our back six, that they both felt confident enough to employ such tactics. In fact, they just took the bloody piss out of us.

The reason why we couldn't work our way around it, is because our deeper players don't have the ability to offer a solution to this problem. Only two players managed to do so against Barcelona, Eboue and Wilshere, both of whom were able to dribble around the packs. Dortmund and Barcelona both pushed 8 players into our half, blocked off all of the options to the man in possession, and we were left with what was just an inept display in the first and middle third of the pitch. If we had players in the back 6-7 who could play a quick diagonal pass, dribble with the ball, or perform quick one touch play, we'd have picked them off. Then again, if we did have that, Dortmund nor Barcelona would have tried to block our passing game. How ****ing sad.

 

[alboots101]

Well said outlaw_