EPL | Fulham vs Arsenal | 24/08/13 | 12:45 PM

[Cruisio]

As in the exact same sequence of events?

Of course, I remember back in 11/12 where we got a very good 1-0 away to Marseille (Ramsey scored I believe) then followed it up by beating Stoke 3-1 (was a home again though)

The exact same sequence of events you mentioned though rarely happen as usually we have a home game after a European away game (as do most teams)

The main point is is that the team is not consistent enough. We've all seen that if they can remain consistent then they have the quality to beat most teams they should be beating however keeping that consistency is too difficult because 1. Our squad is too small in numbers 2. We get many injuries, which directly events number 1 and 3. We rely too heavily on inexperienced players who, whilst finding their feet, will put in inexperienced and inconsistent performances

We were very consistent at the end of last season. The fact is we don't know how much we've improved from last season but this is still a team that has only been playing together for 1-3 seasons, so we should expect to further improve with or without new signings.

We need signings as our rivals have all strengthened, but that doesn't mean we should look too far in the past in order to evaluate this current team. For one, this squad seems to player better under pressure. They are a very tight-knit group of players which is very encouraging and the experience of coming back last season and winning so many games in a row will instill belief. We now need a couple of signings to both improve the first eleven and prevent burnout but as a whole this team has more cojones than past teams since the Emirates move IMO. Less talented perhaps, but better organised without any clear weak areas and more likely to bounce back after a poor result.

What's the first thing I said in that last paragraph?

"We've all seen that if they can remain consistent then they have the quality to beat most teams they should be beating"

So yes, if they can go on a run they have shown themselves capable of getting the results needed, but sustaining those kind of runs is difficult for any team, especially a team with the issues i've raised in the post you've quoted

It's still the same team that lost to Bradford and lost to Blackburn and only started showing any run of consistency when we were out of every other competition, which in itself is a pattern:

In 11/12 after we went out to Milan in 12 games we only lost two and won 6 of those = 22 points
Last season after we went out to Bayern we were undefeated in 10 winning 8 = 26 points

What I will say though is that for the first time in a long time when Wenger says this group has spirit I actually believe him, because I can see it. If we could match that spirit whilst adding 2-3 world class players we'd be well on our way

 

[jones]

Whoever makes these needs to be shot or at least fired. I'm actually certain that they only look at the stats to create their "ratings", and to think these people get paid for this bullshit.

 

[Chappers]

Cruisio//

For one, those kind of results can happen to any club and secondly, that was before we found the right balance defensively and consistency in our performances. I don't disagree with you that we need a bigger squad but I still think you base your opinion of the deficiencies of the team more on past teams than the current one IMO. The fact is we are very vulnerable at the moment without two of our most important players and other injuries but the last two games have been very encouraging. Add Arteta and Kos to this team and it's even better.

I'm referring to the potential of this group and ability to markedly improve on the first half of last season. Looking at the bench today, I don't think there are many supporter that believe this squad can last 50-60 games in all competitions, but it's better than some make it out to be (Europa League level :roll.

Add a top class winger, Flamini and a cb/rb and we're looking quite tasty. Add a striker and this team is the best we've had in 8 years.

 

[Cruisio]

No, unfortunately I still see the same deficiencies in this group as I have done in past groups, which nearly all stem from how Wenger chooses to set up his team

I wont deny that they've got more spirit than a lot of our past teams but to be honest that's what i'd hope to see, as they're clearly not the most talented bunch

We've got a solid base to work from, but it's a base that isn't going to win us any trophies and if we don't add to it considerably now, some of the more important pieces WILL leave and we'll be back to square one. That's why I say i've seen this all before

 

[and1rew]

Add a top class winger, Flamini and a cb/rb and we're looking quite tasty. Add a striker and this team is the best we've had in 8 years.

Come on.

GK: Almunia, Lehmann, Fabianksi

DEF: Eboue, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Toure, Senderos, Djourou, Traore, Hoyte

MID: Fabregas, Rosicky, Gilberto, Hleb, Flamini, Diarra, Denilson, Diaby, Song

ATT: Adebayor, RVP, Eduardo, Bendtner, Walcott

 

[Chappers]

Fair enough. I see a marked improvement in our organisation, attitude and consistency. Arteta is still key for me and without him we may see some banana skins but as a whole this team has none of the negative characteristics of more talented teams of the past. Defensively most of all I think we've improved as long as Arteta is in the team.

 

[Chappers]

Add a top class winger, Flamini and a cb/rb and we're looking quite tasty. Add a striker and this team is the best we've had in 8 years.

Come on.

GK: Almunia, Lehmann, Fabianksi

DEF: Eboue, Sagna, Clichy, Gallas, Toure, Senderos, Djourou, Traore, Hoyte

MID: Fabregas, Rosicky, Gilberto, Hleb, Flamini, Diarra, Denilson, Diaby, Song

ATT: Adebayor, RVP, Eduardo, Bendtner, Walcott

Lehmann on the decline, RVP who played 20 games a season, defensively weak, too reliant on an injury-prone Fabregas. Yes I think this team with Di Maria, a good striker, FLamini as cover and a rb/cb is better than that.

That team looks really poor outside of our first eleven. Song, Denilson, Djourou, Diarra (not given a chance) were nowhere near starting material at the time. Our first eleven was magic but they crumbled due to fatigue and mental brittleness in the end.

 

[Cruisio]

Isn't that the problem though?

You've basically said we become worst defensively as a TEAM if one player is taken out

Put it this way, if we can show that last season wasn't just a purple patch then i'll be there with you, but right now I can't say theres been a significant jump in those categories after just 10 games of consistency (and we played poorly overall in a lot of them)

 

[Chappers]

I'm saying until proven otherwise Arteta is very important to our defensive game but you seem to disregard the improvement we've made with him in the side altogether. Also, the last two performances were very good so we'll have to see how important Arteta truly is. I can't say anything with certainty either but I'd rather base our current team on what we performed at the end of the season when we the players had become accustomed to one another, than at the beginning when we still searched for an identity post RVP/Song.

We need signings in order to even finish in the top 4 so I'm not saying this team is good enough as it is, but I like the mentality and the core of this team. May sound like I'm contradicting myself but my expectations for the new season isn't to win the league because the competition is so strong, but to maybe finish around 80p. If we can add Di Maria and a couple of more players then we are on the right track. This team isn't close to winning the league as it is but there's a good foundation here to make big strides with only a couple of good signings coming in.

 

[and1rew]

Lehmann on the decline, RVP who played 20 games a season, defensively weak, too reliant on an injury-prone Fabregas. Yes I think this team with Di Maria, a good striker, FLamini as cover and a rb/cb is better than that.

That team looks really poor outside of our first eleven. Song, Denilson, Djourou, Diarra (not given a chance) were nowhere near starting material at the time. Our first eleven was magic but they crumbled due to fatigue and mental brittleness in the end.

You must be joking. Of course Diarra was starting quality. We had Diarra and Gilberto as back up DMs now we have Frimpong. We had RVP on the bench on merit with Bendtner as a 4th choice, now we have Sanogo. We had Eboue as a back up RB, now we have Jenkinson. We had Fabregas. That team came 3rd and finished 4 points off the lead, this team would have to have one hell of a season to even contemplate that.

 

[Chappers]

They hardly played ffs why make a what if scenario?

With Di Maria we'd have Podolski on the bench alongside Wilshere/Ramsey, Flamini, Ox, Rosicky, Giroud, Vermaelen, Monreal, Jenkinson etc. I think we'd have a stronger squad and comparable first eleven. Not too outlandish to me.

 

[Cruisio]

Please inform me when and where i've disregarded our improvement with him in the side

We conceded less goals last season than we have done for many years so of course last season we improved defensively, I haven't argued against that at all . YOU said you think we've improved defensively as long as Arteta is in the team and i'm simply saying that doesn't that seem like a bit of a problem? Relying on one player to help the team improve defensively. Personally I don't agree with it because how could we possibly know, but it's what YOU said

All i've been saying is that when the chips have been down and we're out of every other competition, usually the team has stepped up. no matter who the squad personnel is. Whilst this team may have better spirit etc it's lacking in what led to the other groups doing similar things to what they've done (past teams have relied more on their quality to get over the line whereas this one relied more on the effort), if each team had a bit of both then we might not have gone 8 years without winning anything. That's basically what i'm saying we need. It's going to take more than 10 games of scraping against the likes of QPR and Newcastle etc for me to think we can sustain that level for 60 and go beyond it

 

[Chappers]

Please inform me when and where i've disregarded our improvement with him in the side

We conceded less goals last season than we have done for many years so of course last season we improved defensively, I haven't argued against that at all . YOU said you think we've improved defensively as long as Arteta is in the team and i'm simply saying that doesn't that seem like a bit of a problem? Relying on one player to help the team improve defensively. Personally I don't agree with it because how could we possibly know, but it's what YOU said

All i've been saying is that when the chips have been down and we're out of every other competition, usually the team has stepped up. no matter who the squad personnel is. Whilst this team may have better spirit etc it's lacking in what led to the other groups doing similar things to what they've done (past teams have relied more on their quality to get over the line whereas this one relied more on the effort), if each team had a bit of both then we might not have gone 8 years without winning anything. That's basically what i'm saying we need. It's going to take more than 10 games of scraping against the likes of QPR and Newcastle etc for me to think we can sustain that level for 60 and go beyond it

I don't base last season as a benchmark for how we'll perform this season because I expect a team that is constantly evolving to further improve and that is exciting to me. It's pointless to look too much at what happened in the past because we never kept the squad intact. That's the trademark of every AW team. Internal development is at the centreof any successful club and even the Invincibles were doomed to fail before the season started because everyone thought we would stagnate with only Lehmann coming in.

I'm tired as feck so admittedly some/ost parts of my ramblings are incoherent. You won't hear me try to talk about how strong the squad is if we fail to sign any players so it all comes down to what happens in the final week of the transfer window.

 

[and1rew]

They hardly played ffs why make a what if scenario?

With Di Maria we'd have Podolski on the bench alongside Wilshere/Ramsey, Flamini, Ox, Rosicky, Giroud, Vermaelen, Monreal, Jenkinson etc. I think we'd have a stronger squad and comparable first eleven. Not too outlandish to me.

You actually think Wenger's going to buy a striker to bench Giroud? Naahhh. There's a reason why he bought Sanogo - he won't get in the way of his project.

Anyway as it stands we have the weakest squad we've ever had in the last 8 years so I suppose it's a thin line.

 

[Chappers]

They hardly played ffs why make a what if scenario?

With Di Maria we'd have Podolski on the bench alongside Wilshere/Ramsey, Flamini, Ox, Rosicky, Giroud, Vermaelen, Monreal, Jenkinson etc. I think we'd have a stronger squad and comparable first eleven. Not too outlandish to me.

You actually think Wenger's going to buy a striker to bench Giroud? Naahhh. There's a reason why he bought Sanogo - he won't get in the way of his project.

Anyway as it stands we have the weakest squad we've ever had in the last 8 years so I suppose it's a thin line.

I said if we buy a striker I think this team is the strongest we've had since the Emirates move didn't I? So yes, Giroud would then be benched. I never said he will, strictly hypothetical.

 

[Cruisio]

Please inform me when and where i've disregarded our improvement with him in the side

We conceded less goals last season than we have done for many years so of course last season we improved defensively, I haven't argued against that at all . YOU said you think we've improved defensively as long as Arteta is in the team and i'm simply saying that doesn't that seem like a bit of a problem? Relying on one player to help the team improve defensively. Personally I don't agree with it because how could we possibly know, but it's what YOU said

All i've been saying is that when the chips have been down and we're out of every other competition, usually the team has stepped up. no matter who the squad personnel is. Whilst this team may have better spirit etc it's lacking in what led to the other groups doing similar things to what they've done (past teams have relied more on their quality to get over the line whereas this one relied more on the effort), if each team had a bit of both then we might not have gone 8 years without winning anything. That's basically what i'm saying we need. It's going to take more than 10 games of scraping against the likes of QPR and Newcastle etc for me to think we can sustain that level for 60 and go beyond it

I don't base last season as a benchmark for how we'll perform this season because I expect a team that is constantly evolving to further improve and that is exciting to me. It's pointless to look too much at what happened in the past because we never kept the squad intact. That's the trademark of every AW team. Internal development is at the centreof any successful club and even the Invincibles were doomed to fail before the season started because everyone thought we would stagnate with only Lehmann coming in.

\

And therein lies the crux of the matter

If we don't significantly improve this season whether they be using internal methods or external, then the players who have become cornerstones of the improvement you mentioned WILL leave and we'll be right back to square one

So we've got to either hope the current squad improve to the point where it relates to a 16 point gap (which is a massive improvement IMO) or we've got to bring in players that will shorten that gap. For me that's at least two world class forwards whilst also maintaining the form we had last season

 

[Chappers]

Please inform me when and where i've disregarded our improvement with him in the side

We conceded less goals last season than we have done for many years so of course last season we improved defensively, I haven't argued against that at all . YOU said you think we've improved defensively as long as Arteta is in the team and i'm simply saying that doesn't that seem like a bit of a problem? Relying on one player to help the team improve defensively. Personally I don't agree with it because how could we possibly know, but it's what YOU said

All i've been saying is that when the chips have been down and we're out of every other competition, usually the team has stepped up. no matter who the squad personnel is. Whilst this team may have better spirit etc it's lacking in what led to the other groups doing similar things to what they've done (past teams have relied more on their quality to get over the line whereas this one relied more on the effort), if each team had a bit of both then we might not have gone 8 years without winning anything. That's basically what i'm saying we need. It's going to take more than 10 games of scraping against the likes of QPR and Newcastle etc for me to think we can sustain that level for 60 and go beyond it

I don't base last season as a benchmark for how we'll perform this season because I expect a team that is constantly evolving to further improve and that is exciting to me. It's pointless to look too much at what happened in the past because we never kept the squad intact. That's the trademark of every AW team. Internal development is at the centreof any successful club and even the Invincibles were doomed to fail before the season started because everyone thought we would stagnate with only Lehmann coming in.

\

And therein lies the crux of the matter

If we don't significantly improve this season whether they be using internal methods or external, then the players who have become cornerstones of the improvement you mentioned WILL leave and we'll be right back to square one

So we've got to either hope the current squad improve to the point where it relates to a 16 point gap (which is a massive improvement IMO) or we've got to bring in players that will shorten that gap. For me that's at least two world class forwards whilst also maintaining the form we had last season

I'm scared ****less we won't make any signings so I completely agree we're between a rock and a hard place as things stand. That's why I come back to signings and the importance of building on this team. I'm not defending the summer we've had because I think the infastructure at the club is fundamentally wrong, but as long as we have money I hope the board and manager/CEO realise what's at stake.

 

[and1rew]

I said if we buy a striker I think this team is the strongest we've had since the Emirates move didn't I? So yes, Giroud would then be benched. I never said he will, strictly hypothetical.

07-08 has better midfield, better defence and better bench. Unknown striker is a wildcard but few strikers can make Giroud, Sanogo + 1 better than Adebayor, RVP, Eduardo and Bendtner.

 

[mavelous]

arguable. adebayor had a great season numbers wise, but i'd say walcott's close to that level. same situation - a player not visibly youtstanding in any way, but gets the job done and puts up end product. i'd say actually, that theo's goals are more important than ade beating up teams 7-0. rvp was injured half the time. edu as a backup was great tho, until injury. i'd say podolski in that backup role isn't too shabby, different types but you get my drift, he's deadly when provided a chance to score.

we still don't have a fabregas so yes, that midfield that included hleb was tasty. i'd actually say that our defence is better these days, what with arteta and mertesacker adding maturity and calmness, as well as depth in LB/CB

 

[Chappers]

A midfield of Arteta-Ramsey-Cazorla and an attacking three of Di Maria-striker-Walcott is very strong and certainly comparable to the 07/08 team IMO. The bench would also be stronger with all the options available. I think we'd be stronger defensively because we could invite pressure and play on the counter, something the 07/08 team couldn't do.

We are more tactically flexible now than back then. I think that team relied too heavily on Fabregas and Flamini playing every game. I think the 07/08 team performed admirably and did more than was expected but they didn't last and I think this team with these signings would have more options to rotate without losing as much in quality.