PL: Arsenal vs Liverpool | 12/11/06

[YuenBiaoFan]

4-4-2 with Ade starting I'm sure of it.

 

[nidza7]

This is a good chance to get 3 points further away from our direct rival.We simply must take advantage of home game.

 

[patrick42uk]

no point trying to paint a pretty picture. emirates is no fortress. would be more confident away. plus, we havent scored in 3 games from open play. i think this will actually make us more cautious in our approach. IMO the score could be anything from 0-0, 1-1, or 1-0 to liverpool.

wenger has shown a bit of faith with the front five which did well against reading. i wonder if he'll take the opportunity to re-instate ade. i was impressed with his play against west ham. constantly working hard, moving off the ball to give passing options to the midfield short or in behind. a bit of change in personnel could do us good.

 

[clockwork orange]

no point trying to paint a pretty picture. emirates is no fortress. would be more confident away. plus, we havent scored in 3 games from open play. i think this will actually make us more cautious in our approach. IMO the score could be anything from 0-0, 1-1, or 1-0 to liverpool.

wenger has shown a bit of faith with the front five which did well against reading. i wonder if he'll take the opportunity to re-instate ade. i was impressed with his play against west ham. constantly working hard, moving off the ball to give passing options to the midfield short or in behind. a bit of change in personnel could do us good.

That worries me a lot: the Reading game says absolutely nothing about the efectiveness of our 4-5-1 (especially against tight defences/ defensive teams).

Before the Reading game I already posted that we would beat them easily, because of the open game they played. The game became even more open when we got our early lead. ONCE you're 1-0 up, 4-5-1 always looks great. The issue is that it's very hard score with 4-5-1 against a team which play with 9 man behind the ball.

Villa, Everton and Boro played far more defensive. That's why we had problems scoring with 4-5-1.

 

[Loylz]

I expect us to play 4-5-1 (I would prefer sabre's line-up). Imo RVP should be in the team and play right winger in stead of left winger. Hleb can play left winger. RVP will be 10 times as dangerous and show his full potential, Hleb's move will hardly affect his game.

In a low scoring game like this, a RVP set piece could win us the match. That's another reason why he should play.

I expect Pool to play 4-4-2. Rafa has realised Kuyt is his best attacking player. Crouch will be his partner.He and especially Kuyt are very dangerous at set pieces. Therefore we should defend as high up the pitch as possible (not that dangerous, Pool lack pace up front with that line up), so Pool will get as little corners and dangerous set pieces as possible.

I agree. This in turn will allow us to tackle higher up the pitch and be further up the pitch when we regain possession making it that much quicker for us to counter attack them. Also if we do lose possession all our back four of Eboue, Toure, Gallas, and Clichy have great, if not blistering recovery pace. Also apart from Pennant who is very quick (but even then he'll be up against Clichy which equals no contest), I don't see any of their players being able to really to get past our defence and make a clean break for our goal without any of our players biting at their heels.

 

[patrick42uk]

leo, you seem to forget we played 4-4-2 against villa and boro. in fact, we actually moved a forward wider to try to break teams down because two players central wasnt working for us.

 

[clockwork orange]

I expect us to play 4-5-1 (I would prefer sabre's line-up). Imo RVP should be in the team and play right winger in stead of left winger. Hleb can play left winger. RVP will be 10 times as dangerous and show his full potential, Hleb's move will hardly affect his game.

In a low scoring game like this, a RVP set piece could win us the match. That's another reason why he should play.

I expect Pool to play 4-4-2. Rafa has realised Kuyt is his best attacking player. Crouch will be his partner.He and especially Kuyt are very dangerous at set pieces. Therefore we should defend as high up the pitch as possible (not that dangerous, Pool lack pace up front with that line up), so Pool will get as little corners and dangerous set pieces as possible.

I agree. This in turn will allow us to tackle higher up the pitch and be further up the pitch when we regain possession making it that much quicker for us to counter attack them. Also if we do lose possession all our back four of Eboue, Toure, Gallas, and Clichy have great, if not blistering recovery pace. Also apart from Pennant who is very quick (but even then he'll be up against Clichy which equals no contest), I don't see any of their players being able to really to get past our defence and make a clean break for our goal without any of our players biting at their heels.

Exactly.

 

[clockwork orange]

leo, you seem to forget we played 4-4-2 against villa and boro. in fact, we actually moved a forward wider to try to break teams down because two players central wasnt working for us.

I stand corrected. I mentioned the wrong examples. But I still think our performance against Reading with 4-5-1 says **** all about it's effectiveness v a parked bus.

Futhermore a lot of people seem to think Henry and RVP can't play together up front. Imo most of the times when this partnership was tried, Henry was returning from injury, or like early this season not in shape yet. You don't change the system, because a player is not in top shape.

What I also don't get is that Henry seems to be playing more withdrawn when he plays with Ade up front, but if he partners RVP, Henry seems to be the pointman. Why oh why, don't we let Henry play off RVP?

 

[cubbz_th14]

just been reading on a scouser forum about their views and the general feeling i get is that they don't seem too confident for this game many have gone on about our ability on the wing (much to my surprise) although i see hleb doing some damage on the right with his exceptional ability to cut in.

i just hope we can score early and open the game up and hope luck's on our side this time unlike the cska game

 

[clockwork orange]

just been reading on a scouser forum about their views and the general feeling i get is that they don't seem too confident for this game many have gone on about our ability on the wing (much to my surprise) although i see hleb doing some damage on the right with his exceptional ability to cut in.

i just hope we can score early and open the game up and hope luck's on our side this time unlike the cska game

to my surprise too. Even if we play 4-5-1 and they play 4-4-2 I expect more danger from their wingplay than from ours.

Actually I fear their fullbacks (Finnan and Riise) will have a license to roam if we play 4-5-1.

 

[cubbz_th14]

just been reading on a scouser forum about their views and the general feeling i get is that they don't seem too confident for this game many have gone on about our ability on the wing (much to my surprise) although i see hleb doing some damage on the right with his exceptional ability to cut in.

i just hope we can score early and open the game up and hope luck's on our side this time unlike the cska game

to my surprise too. Even if we play 4-5-1 and they play 4-4-2 I expect more danger from their wingplay than from ours.
Actually I fear their fullbacks (Finnan and Riise) will have a license to roam if we play 4-5-1.

Funnily, Eboue i feel does best on the wing for us when he makes those runs. Freddie can volunteer to run all day but i just cant see him to be effective any more. RVP, Hleb and Rosicky's can not naturally play using the wing. some times i do miss bobby, when on song he was a class act

 

[clockwork orange]

just been reading on a scouser forum about their views and the general feeling i get is that they don't seem too confident for this game many have gone on about our ability on the wing (much to my surprise) although i see hleb doing some damage on the right with his exceptional ability to cut in.

i just hope we can score early and open the game up and hope luck's on our side this time unlike the cska game

to my surprise too. Even if we play 4-5-1 and they play 4-4-2 I expect more danger from their wingplay than from ours.
Actually I fear their fullbacks (Finnan and Riise) will have a license to roam if we play 4-5-1.

Funnily, Eboue i feel does best on the wing for us when he makes those runs. Freddie can volunteer to run all day but i just cant see him to be effective any more. RVP, Hleb and Rosicky's can not naturally play using the wing. some times i do miss bobby, when on song he was a class act

Hleb and Rosicky certainly are no wingers. RVP plays right winger very well for Holland can't see why he couldn't do that for us.

What I'm most gutted about is that we were developing great right wing interplay between Eboue, Hleb and RVP and we tore that apart.

By the way if I were the manager of the oppostion I would tell my fullbacks to not be bothered that much if they get passed on the outside (they just have to prevent our 'wingers' from cutting inside), because the resulting cross will be pretty harmless.

 

[cubbz_th14]

Leo, i agree, what we saw developing for a brief period between eboue, hleb and RVP was pretty special. however, i feel that in regards to creating opportunity we really don't have a problem, we are still creating ample, its the finish that is seriously vexxing me. on occasions our finishing has been so shocking that it seems the team is still playing pre-season games.

 

[cubbz_th14]

the resulting cross will be pretty harmless.

spot on. same applies to our corners

 

[RocktheCasbah]

the resulting cross will be pretty harmless.

I think both Eboue and Hoyte have shown good crossing ability in the last few weeks, and we know that Gilberto, Henry and Adebayor are all capable in the air- so I doubt that Rafa will be too relaxed about crosses into the box. Besides which, Arsenal have shown on occassion that you don't always have to cross aerially to score a goal.

I'm really, really looking forward to this (I'm going), although we're not having the best of runs at the moment and the Pool look like they're beginning to wake up. Would be shocked if Crouch and Kuyt don't start for Liverpool, they'll expect to dominate whoever play in the centre for us (Toure and Gallas, I hope). So the onus is on our fullbacks to cut off the supply lines from the wings- if Clichy and Pennant play, that should be an interesting battle.

No Sissoko is good news for us, I think. But I just hope the lads remember where their shooting boots are, a week without a game for most of them will have done them the power of good. I expect us to come out fired up and I expect us to win.

 

[clockwork orange]

the resulting cross will be pretty harmless.

I think both Eboue and Hoyte have shown good crossing ability in the last few weeks, and we know that Gilberto, Henry and Adebayor are all capable in the air- so I doubt that Rafa will be too relaxed about crosses into the box. Besides which, Arsenal have shown on occassion that you don't always have to cross aerially to score a goal.

I'm really, really looking forward to this, although we're not having the best of runs at the moment and the Pool look like they're beginning to wake up. Would be shocked if Crouch and Kuyt don't start for Liverpool, they'll expect to dominate whoever play in the centre for us (Toure and Gallas, I hope). So the onus is on our fullbacks to cut off the supply lines from the wings- if Clichy and Pennant play, that should be an interesting battle.

No Sissoko is good news for us, I think. But I just hope the lads remember where their shooting boots are, a week without a game for most of them will have done them the power of good. I expect us to come out fired up and I expect us to win.

If Ade's playing crosses will be more dangerous. I wouldn't be to worried about Henry with crosses (he hardly is at the right spot & heading is 1 of the few things he's not that good at). Gilberto will only be in the box for set-pieces (during normal play he will not be around).

 

[Captain]

But even if Sissoko is there, he doesn't actually do much other than give away alot of free kicks.

If Gerrard is there he's a threat on our goal.

I'm with Captain on this one. With Gerrard in the middle Cesc would have a field day with the space he leaves. Sissoko on the other hand would render Cesc useless with his physical game. We all saw how well it worked for NRC and his West Ham mates last Sunday

please, a cesc on form wouldn't have any problem with sissoko. cesc has come up against a number of top class defensive midfielders in the past without being 'rendered useless'. sissoko is a good player, but not the greatest defensive midfielder of all time...

sissoko brings a lot of effort, work rate, tenacity and grit to the liverpool midfield, but he also gives the ball away a lot and often in dangerous areas quite carelessly. in addition, he offers very little going forward. sissoko or no sissoko, we'll still beat liverpool comfortably. only difference is the way we'll beat them...

I think that most people on here are underestimating the improvement that Sissoko has made in the last season. His passing is much improved and allied with his aggressive play he would have been a real danger to us. He obviously isn't on Gerrard's level in terms of attacking, but most other facets of being a central midfielder he has shown himself to be equal or better.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Not true, he (Gilberto) does get forward, and amazingly enough, he does so to good effect from time to time. Don't forget that Henry has bagged a couple of headers recently, and the one against Porto was not the action of someone not that good at heading. I think it's more a delivery issue.

Though I am prepared to concede the law of averages... ;-)

 

[clockwork orange]

the resulting cross will be pretty harmless.

spot on. same applies to our corners

yep. A real pity because RVP and Rosicky deliver perfect balls. Somehow I feel that we practise far too little on offensive set pieces (defensive too). Seems all our players are there on their own, no one makes space for a another player, by a block, no trained patterns (like 3 players running forward and 1 dropping off to the space they just left, etc).

 

[clockwork orange]

Not true, he (Gilberto) does get forward, and amazingly enough, he does so to good effect from time to time. Don't forget that Henry has bagged a couple of headers recently, and the one against Porto was not the action of someone not that good at heading. I think it's more a delivery issue.

Though I am prepared to concede the law of averages... ;-)

Not saying Gilberto doesn't occiasionally pop up. But for over 90% of the crosses from normal play he will not be there.

The issue is very simple when a cross comes in 3 positions are important: near post, far post and penalty spot. There should be a player on (his way to) each position. When a cross comes in, we sometimes have none of these positions occupied, sometimes one, hardly ever 2, never 3.