PL: West Ham United vs Arsenal | 05/11/06

[sabret00the]

My main gripe with Henry as captain as I said before, is the fact that he can't be taken off. Now perhaps that is Wenger's stubborness, but you have to appreciate that this current Arsenal squad is very young and they look up to Henry. The first question that all the youngsters ask is when they can train with Henry. I think it sends a strong message to the youngsters when the captain and idol doesn't see out the whole 90 minutes. As well, the fact that he looks bored or moody most of the time on the pitch is not something they should learn from their idol.

the problem with taking him off is that he's our most dangerous player, even in one of those moods. He looked like he was in a mood v sheff utd at home and scored one, set up another. We take him off and we lose a huge chunk of our play.

anyone can be your teams most dangerous player in the 90th minute when EVERYONE just gets the ball and passes to him.

 

[gunner_down_under]

West Indies lost yesterday and I have to say I love the game of cricket and I will admit to releasing my emotions through the game on one too many an occasion! They were a complete joke yesterday - I switch it over to the arsenal game hoping to get some joy - only to see arsenal under-preform for ninety minutes.

Its days like yesterday (november 5th) where I question my love of sport. Momma Mia!

I know what you mean mate, or maybe I dont , but I saw both the games yeah!

 

[RocktheCasbah]

My main gripe with Henry as captain as I said before, is the fact that he can't be taken off. Now perhaps that is Wenger's stubborness, but you have to appreciate that this current Arsenal squad is very young and they look up to Henry. The first question that all the youngsters ask is when they can train with Henry. I think it sends a strong message to the youngsters when the captain and idol doesn't see out the whole 90 minutes. As well, the fact that he looks bored or moody most of the time on the pitch is not something they should learn from their idol.

the problem with taking him off is that he's our most dangerous player, even in one of those moods. He looked like he was in a mood v sheff utd at home and scored one, set up another. We take him off and we lose a huge chunk of our play.

anyone can be your teams most dangerous player in the 90th minute when EVERYONE just gets the ball and passes to him.

Ah, but is Thierry our most dangerous player because everyone passes to him, or is it because he's our most dangerous player that everyone passes to him?

I'm sure Arsène and Thierry don't tell the other 9 outfielders who start each game with him to pass the ball to Thierry at every opportunity. In fact, going on the CSKA game, I think we can safely infer that nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[jester]

My main gripe with Henry as captain as I said before, is the fact that he can't be taken off. Now perhaps that is Wenger's stubborness, but you have to appreciate that this current Arsenal squad is very young and they look up to Henry. The first question that all the youngsters ask is when they can train with Henry. I think it sends a strong message to the youngsters when the captain and idol doesn't see out the whole 90 minutes. As well, the fact that he looks bored or moody most of the time on the pitch is not something they should learn from their idol.

the problem with taking him off is that he's our most dangerous player, even in one of those moods. He looked like he was in a mood v sheff utd at home and scored one, set up another. We take him off and we lose a huge chunk of our play.

anyone can be your teams most dangerous player in the 90th minute when EVERYONE just gets the ball and passes to him.

Ah, but is Thierry our most dangerous player because everyone passes to him, or is it because he's our most dangerous player that everyone passes to him?

I'm sure Arsène and Thierry don't tell the other 9 outfielders who start each game with him to pass the ball to Thierry at every opportunity. In fact, going on the CSKA game, I think we can safely infer that nothing could be further from the truth.

thats right, we dont pass to him first, making him the most dangerous player, he gets the passes because he's the one that usually makes stuff happen.

 

[lagos]

I can vaguely remmember reading an article somewhere in which henry's doctor said something about him needding an operation in the summer and that he feared his involvement in the world cup would hamper the recovery of his long standing achiles problem.


Am I imagining things or did anyone else read that article?

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

anyone can be your teams most dangerous player in the 90th minute when EVERYONE just gets the ball and passes to him.[/quote]

This is when you true colors show. You can criticise his mood swings...but cmon you will be stretching it if you want to claim he is good cos he gets the ball all the time. We can say the same about every other star than. Give him credit. Even at his worst(according to his standard) he still offers more than any other person upfront(including RvP). The fact is he can still create a chance for himself out of nothing and a chance for his teammate. All this talk about Wenger won't be able to bench him is bs*..so far this season, he hasn't had that luxury to do so. Captain or no captain..the team comes first..but just like Vieira days you just don't sub him off cos he is playing below his standard..cos in most cases that means playing in the standard of the other players.

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

Does anyone get those post match newsletters from Arsène Wenger. You know the ones, where it looks like he has something to say, but then you realise it's just material taken from a post match interview.

I haven't got mine yet? i wonder why

 

[sabret00the]

anyone can be your teams most dangerous player in the 90th minute when EVERYONE just gets the ball and passes to him.

This is when you true colors show. You can criticise his mood swings...but cmon you will be stretching it if you want to claim he is good cos he gets the ball all the time. We can say the same about every other star than. Give him credit. Even at his worst(according to his standard) he still offers more than any other person upfront(including RvP). The fact is he can still create a chance for himself out of nothing and a chance for his teammate. All this talk about Wenger won't be able to bench him is bs*..so far this season, he hasn't had that luxury to do so. Captain or no captain..the team comes first..but just like Vieira days you just don't sub him off cos he is playing below his standard..cos in most cases that means playing in the standard of the other players.

true colours? what are you on about? my dislike for thierry henry is as well known is not more known than the basics of newtons law of gravity and yet it has absolutely nothing to do with this train of thought. i will try and explain myself in a bid to try and clear up any misconceptions that bias played a part in the above post.

that aside. i'm not saying thierry isn't a good player. i'm not saying he's not one of the best players, if not the best player i've ever seen live within a stadium. but what i am saying is that, it's far easier to build a stigma as the most dangerous player when you're the golden child of a team. am i saying he didn't earn his right to that status? no. but what i am saying is that while thierry henry is here, we will never have a more dangerous player and a players ability or danger levels have very little to do with that.

last ten minutes, everyone passed the ball to fabregas for the rest of the season and he will go into next season known as our most dangerous player because he would've bagged his chances. even when van Persie was coming off the bench and the only thing on his mind was getting goals (of which he did) he was still secondary to thierry henry. to dispute that a players reputation can proceed him is senseless and that's all i'm saying. if half the players in our team saw as much of the ball as henry when our backs are up against the wall as thierry henry, things might be different.

the reason why he doesn't let us down is because he's ultimately a natural finisher and is paid paid to finish, with his finishing ability it'd be criminal not to convert his possession to goals. but you can't dispute, no one can dispute that he's our most dangerous player because when things go wrong, he's like our only player.

it's for the above reasons we have threads like "do we depend on henry too much". henry is who we all place our faith in when we've got our backs up against the wall, whether there's a better option or not. we will never know while henry dons an arsenal shirt and that's the bottom line.

the above also applies to RtC, would've quoted you but "true colours" was so laughable it superseded your quoteability.

I'm sure Arsène and Thierry don't tell the other 9 outfielders who start each game with him to pass the ball to Thierry at every opportunity.

i'm not saying that, i'm just saying that when the pressures on, most of our players, most of the time seem to think it's easier just to give the ball to henry and hope for the best. this has actually been highlighted by henry in the past and he addressed the situation via the media.

and while CSKA was an example of sublime team effort, how many times have we seen this season, people passing henry when he's marked by by two, three or even four men?

 

[Canuck]

Pardew's eagerness to apologise suggests he did or said something he shouldn't

The guy is a slimy ***** and I'm sure there's more to come.

Is it Pardews fault that Sheringham is a cheating c*nt? :x
Is it Pardews fault that Henry likes a cuddle with him afterwards? :x
Is it Pardews fault that Rob Styles is a blind f*r? :x
Is it Pardews fault that Rosicky couldn't hit a cows arse with a shovel? :x
Is it Pardews fault that my wife smashed up the car? :roll:

Definately.

All of them.

Well , you can only blame Sheringham for being himself.

But you heard the man, send your mechanics bill to Alan Pardew, c/o WHFC.

I'm also a bit stunned by the lack of response from the club.

 

[sabret00the]

To continue my post, another prime example of Henry's reputation coming before all else on the day is our whole 4-5-1. everyone and the blind man next door can see he'd be more effective in the free-role or as a winger and yet because he's "the best in the world" he plays as our striker and isn't very good at it and yet? 90 minutes here, there and everywhere because he's our most dangerous man, despite there being better personnel for the job.

 

[patrick42uk]

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=17220

not sure if this has been posted but these look like pretty insightful quotes if true.

 

[patrick42uk]

thats an interesting angle. henry's ranting is nothing unusual. the problem might be the effect it has on the other players because of the gap in status between henry and the rest of the team in terms of status in the world game. which i guess is an obvious problem which can arise from a strategy that invovles a group of young talented players being spearheaded by an iconic superstar.

 

[sabret00the]

http://www.tribalfootball.com/article.php?id=17220

not sure if this has been posted but these look like pretty insightful quotes if true.

take that, add it to my post and blam you have gloating material. joke, but basically, i was trying to say something similar.

 

[sabret00the]

thats an interesting angle. henry's ranting is nothing unusual. the problem might be the effect it has on the other players because of the gap in status between henry and the rest of the team in terms of status in the world game. which i guess is an obvious problem which can arise from a strategy that invovles a group of young talented players being spearheaded by an iconic superstar.

there is no ying to thierry's yang and that's the problem. while we have thierry who gets complete freedom, we put shackles on our other players and don't allow them those same rights and so because henry's idealism is so similar to wenger's, there's a level of confusion. i really do hope that van Persie gets his shackles taken off soon. i believe he can actually be a ying to theirry's yang.

 

[jay-d]

We have no one in the squad who would be better than Thierry in the 4-5-1. Not RVP not Adebayor. Sabre, while I admit you do put together an articulate argument, it's rendered totally futile by your bias against Thierry. You seem to have an irrational dislike which clouds everything you think and say about Thierry. And I believe you honestly believe the team would be better off without him.

 

[sabret00the]

We have no one in the squad who would be better than Thierry in the 4-5-1. Not RVP not Adebayor. Sabre, while I admit you do put together an articulate argument, it's rendered totally futile by your bias against Thierry. You seem to have an irrational dislike which clouds everything you think and say about Thierry. And I believe you honestly believe the team would be better off without him.

So you're saying, you don't beleive Henry would be better suited on the end of a relected ball/knock down as opposed to being the one knocking down the ball for someone else or reflecting into someone else's path and you're saying that my bias is getting in the way of my judgement? i would indeed say that you're hero complex in regards to the stature and ability of henry clouds your judgement. best striker in the world or not, he's better suited being a goal getter (free-role/winger) than a striker in a 4-5-1.

that's not bias, that's fact. henry has never been the type of player who you pass to over the top, he is instead the type of player who pulls wide and runs at a man from deep within an attack, often the second or third arsenal player in the box as opposed to the first. having people drag defenders has been fundamental to his game, often leaving him in a one-on-one or one-on-two situation with defenders and having a keeper who doesn't know if he'll shoot or lay it off to one of his on rushing counterparts while the other defenders are left marking a man.

thierry's game is about ball to feet, meaning he requires a pass in space (whether through ball or in acres of space) his job has never been primarily to drag the defenders out of the way and provide assists for other players .

 

[vanderguy]

That right jay-d, sabret always lets his bias and tinted glasses overshadow his view, Sabret i am the biggest RVP but i cant blame every vanpersie failure on henry,Henry always shout at his team mates, but he said thats just his style(onfield) but they all get along off-field, So please dont pin vanpersie failures on henry.

 

[sabret00the]

That right jay-d, sabret always lets his bias and tinted glasses overshadow his view, Sabret i am the biggest RVP but i cant blame every vanpersie failure on henry,Henry always shout at his team mates, but he said thats just his style(onfield) but they all get along off-field, So please dont pin vanpersie failures on henry.

i'm going to recommend you for demotion, your last few posts that i've observed have been only to talk about the poster (mainly me), if the motion carries i'm sure someone will promote you back up once you learn to talk about the actual subject matter or debate at hand.

 

[patrick42uk]

thats an interesting angle. henry's ranting is nothing unusual. the problem might be the effect it has on the other players because of the gap in status between henry and the rest of the team in terms of status in the world game. which i guess is an obvious problem which can arise from a strategy that invovles a group of young talented players being spearheaded by an iconic superstar.

there is no ying to thierry's yang and that's the problem. while we have thierry who gets complete freedom, we put shackles on our other players and don't allow them those same rights and so because henry's idealism is so similar to wenger's, there's a level of confusion. i really do hope that van Persie gets his shackles taken off soon. i believe he can actually be a ying to theirry's yang.

sabre, communism died with the soviet union.

 

[RammiXP]

That right jay-d, sabret always lets his bias and tinted glasses overshadow his view, Sabret i am the biggest RVP but i cant blame every vanpersie failure on henry,Henry always shout at his team mates, but he said thats just his style(onfield) but they all get along off-field, So please dont pin vanpersie failures on henry.

i'm going to recommend you for demotion, your last few posts that i've observed have been only to talk about the poster (mainly me), if the motion carries i'm sure someone will promote you back up once you learn to talk about the actual subject matter or debate at hand.

i will 2nd that sabre, no need for it argue the point not the man.