Player Ratings - PL: Arsenal vs Portsmouth | 02/09/07

[MDGoonah41]

After watching the replay and going frame by frame, I'm fairly convinced Senderos shouldn't have been sent off. He kicked the back of Kanu's foot accidentally and Kanu went down in a heap. I seriously don't see how the referee can justify a red, when it took me 5 times of watching the clip to see exactly what Senderos did wrong.

 

[banduan]

Clichy had a bad game? Honestly, a lot of yous are really really harsh.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

After watching the replay and going frame by frame, I'm fairly convinced Senderos shouldn't have been sent off. He kicked the back of Kanu's foot accidentally and Kanu went down in a heap. I seriously don't see how the referee can justify a red, when it took me 5 times of watching the clip to see exactly what Senderos did wrong.

The intention is irrelevant; he was last man and whether it was deliberate or just cluminess, he committed a professional foul.

 

[asajoseph]

Kolo looked like having a decent opportunity of recovering and making things difficult for Kanu. Even if he had not and Kanu scored, conceeding a goal but keeping 11 men on the pitch with 40 mins to go is a lot better than losing a man (and still giving Pompey a very good chance to score from the free kick). At least, that's what everyone seemed to think after the CL final, anyway. We're now without Senderos for 3 games and the players got a much tougher work-out than they would have otherwise had.

The referee obviously didn't think Toure was getting back - and from where I was standing, it didn't look like he was either. That's why he sent him off. If you think Toure would have got back, then you must also logically think that Halsey was wrong to send Senderos off.

Even if he had not and Kanu scored, conceeding a goal but keeping 11 men on the pitch with 40 mins to go is a lot better than losing a man (and still giving Pompey a very good chance to score from the free kick). At least, that's what everyone seemed to think after the CL final, anyway. We're now without Senderos for 3 games and the players got a much tougher work-out than they would have otherwise had.

And again, that's very easy to say after the fact - but when making a split-second decision of whether or not to try to win the ball, it's a different story. Maybe we'd have saved ourselves all this bother if Kolo hadn't played Kanu onside?

 

[MDGoonah41]

After watching the replay and going frame by frame, I'm fairly convinced Senderos shouldn't have been sent off. He kicked the back of Kanu's foot accidentally and Kanu went down in a heap. I seriously don't see how the referee can justify a red, when it took me 5 times of watching the clip to see exactly what Senderos did wrong.

The intention is irrelevant; he was last man and whether it was deliberate or just cluminess, he committed a professional foul.

If a challenge is clumsy and not intentional, isn't it the discretion of the referee? Accidentally kicking the back of a player's foot is different than sliding in for the ball, no? I don't even see how what Senderos did is a "foul", let alone a professional foul.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

The referee obviously didn't think Toure was getting back - and from where I was standing, it didn't look like he was either. That's why he sent him off. If you think Toure would have got back, then you must also logically think that Halsey was wrong to send Senderos off.

Just because the referee didn't think Kolo would have gotten back in time, doesn't mean he wouldn't have. The referee has to give the benefit of the doubt to the striker in that situation, especially as it was outside the box and booking a player and giving a free kick isn't really a fair punishment for denying what could be a clear goal scoring opportunity.

And again, that's very easy to say after the fact - but when making a split-second decision of whether or not to try to win the ball, it's a different story. Maybe we'd have saved ourselves all this bother if Kolo hadn't played Kanu onside?

What difference does it make whether it is a split second decision or whether he has lots of time to make it? He got it wrong, very badly wrong. Kolo made a mistake, but Phil's error was much greater. Kolo's error results in a very good opportunity for Portsmouth; Phil's error results a good opporunity (not as a good, but still good) and gives Portsmouth a big advantage for the rest of the game. How many chances did Portsmouth have that followed the sending off that came as a result of them having acres of space and time on the ball? Quite a few, i'd say.

Not to mention Phil is now suspended for 3(?) games, we just better hope Gallas gets fit quick...

 

[sesquioxide]

.... Even if he had not and Kanu scored, conceeding a goal but keeping 11 men on the pitch with 40 mins to go is a lot better than losing a man (and still giving Pompey a very good chance to score from the free kick).

I don't know, Kaids. Our team has for a long time now an inability to win with a 1 goal margin, and Senderos would be judged as harshly or worse if he let Kanu score ("why didn't he do something???") as he didn't ("why did he get a red???") depending on whether we won or drew the game. I feel Senderos being sent off was well worth keeping the 2 goal margin.

 

[kel varnsen]

Re: Arsenal/Portsmouth Match Ratings

Almunia - 7
Flamini - 8
Toure - 7
Senderos - 5
Clichy - 6
Gilberto - 7
Hleb - 6
Fabregas - 8,5
Rosicky - 8
Van Persie - 6
Adebayor - 6

Denilson - 6,5
Eduardo - 5
Diaby - 6

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

If a challenge is clumsy and not intentional, isn't it the discretion of the referee? Accidentally kicking the back of a player's foot is different than sliding in for the ball, no? I don't even see how what Senderos did is a "foul", let alone a professional foul.

So, by that logic, as long as a player doesn't intentionally break the rules, he is not to be penalised?

Football wouldn't be a farce at all under those rules, no sir.

 

[MDGoonah41]

If a challenge is clumsy and not intentional, isn't it the discretion of the referee? Accidentally kicking the back of a player's foot is different than sliding in for the ball, no? I don't even see how what Senderos did is a "foul", let alone a professional foul.

So, by that logic, as long as a player doesn't intentionally break the rules, he is not to be penalised?

Football wouldn't be a farce at all under those rules, no sir.

I just don't think you can send someone off for what Senderos did. Senderos was running and clipped Kanu's heel. He didn't swing his foot at him, or make a move to try and tackle him, he was running for the ball. Kanu went down in a heap. Did the referee even see contact? How could he have? Senderos barely was even touching him.

I understand why he sent him off, I just don't agree with it. There's a difference between tackling and running and clipping a player's foot by accident.
.

 

[ronitc]

You're wrong here MDGoonah. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a foul, especially in the penalty area or as a last man. Senderos could have tripped and fallen over backwards on Kanu and it would still have been a foul.

 

[banduan]

If it was about being clipped, it would have been a dodgy dismissal. But I think Senderos grabbed Kanu's waist very briefly too.

edit: I do believe for a last-man professional foul dismissal to be made, it has to be an intetional foul. Otherwise James should have been shown red too.

Anyway, silly discussion about an otherwise masterful Gunner performance.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

I just don't think you can send someone off for what Senderos did. Senderos was running and clipped Kanu's heel. He didn't swing his foot at him, or make a move to try and tackle him, he was running for the ball. Kanu went down in a heap. Did the referee even see contact? How could he have? Senderos barely was even touching him.

I understand why he sent him off, I just don't agree with it. There's a difference between tackling and running and clipping a player's foot by accident..

But there is no difference whatsoever to Kanu; he has been denied a goal-scoring opportunity by Senderos.

 

[asajoseph]

Just because the referee didn't think Kolo would have gotten back in time, doesn't mean he wouldn't have. The referee has to give the benefit of the doubt to the striker in that situation, especially as it was outside the box and booking a player and giving a free kick isn't really a fair punishment for denying what could be a clear goal scoring opportunity.

Kanu was a striker, free on the edge of the area, in a central position. If Senderos fouled him, the referree was right to send him off - Toure wouldn't have got anywhere near him, if he'd taken an early shot, and probably wouldn't anyway. Senderos had a decision to make - try to make a tackle, or let him have a free effort at goal.

Kolo made a mistake, but Phil's error was much greater.

Nonsense. If Kolo played him onside, he also played Phil into that situation - Phil should not have touched Kanu, in the way he did, but the blame for the situation falls on the shoulders of the player whose mistake created it, as much as anyone else.

It's like blaming the keeper for diving the wrong way when trying to save a penalty - the fault is with the person who gave the penalty away in the first place.

 

[MDGoonah41]

You're wrong here MDGoonah. It doesn't have to be intentional to be a foul, especially in the penalty area or as a last man. Senderos could have tripped and fallen over backwards on Kanu and it would still have been a foul.

I know it doesn't have to be intentional to be a foul. But I think that's a situation where the referee has to use discretion. A free kick? Ok. A yellow? eh. A red? Just harsh, that's all. He clipped his foot, he didn't even try to tackle him. I think a red card is harsh there, and for the matter of evaluating Senderos, he was unlucky.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

Kanu was a striker, free on the edge of the area, in a central position. If Senderos fouled him, the referree was right to send him off - Toure wouldn't have got anywhere near him, if he'd taken an early shot, and probably wouldn't anyway. Senderos had a decision to make - try to make a tackle, or let him have a free effort at goal.

Of course the ref was right to send him off, he committed a professional foul. I just don't see how playing half a game with 10 men (and being suspended for several more games) to reduce the quality of one chance on goal for the opposition is anything but a very bad trade.

Nonsense. If Kolo played him onside, he also played Phil into that situation - Phil should not have touched Kanu, in the way he did, but the blame for the situation falls on the shoulders of the player whose mistake created it, as much as anyone else.

It's like blaming the keeper for diving the wrong way when trying to save a penalty - the fault is with the person who gave the penalty away in the first place.

No, it isn't. Kolo is to blame for giving Pompey a chance on goal. Phil, and Phil alone, is responsible for getting sent off, which frankly is a worse outcome.

 

[ronitc]

Yeah you're right, it might have been harsh but you can't say it was incorrect or bad refereeing really. It looked like Toure wouldn't make it back in time therefore Senderos was the last man and denied Kanu a goalscoring opportunity.

 

[Goalkeeper]

Almunia 8 - Made a few good decisions and good saves.

Flamini 8 - Good going forward, even beating a few defenders. Worked his socks off.

Senderos 5 - was good in the first half but then he picked up the red card with a clumsy challenge.

Toure 7 - Played solidly.

Clichy 7 - Was beaten quite a few times today, but was great on attack. Put in a great early cross for Diaby. Definite signs of improvement with his final touch.

Gilberto 6 - It's a bit unfair, as he started off great, but he couldn't really combine with Toure at CB.

Rosicky 8 - A lot of hard work and of course the goal.

Fabregas 9 - A goal and an assist. My man of the match.

Hleb 7 - A good performance.

Van Persie 6 - Won the penalty for us, but another quite game really. Looked a bit tired from playing mid week. Linked up well.

Adebayor 5 - Terrible first touch. Still, a lot of hard work.

Diaby 6 - Moments of indiviual skill, but unable to take his chances or to link up with team mates.

Denilson 7 - Looked comfortable coming in.

Couldn't give Eduardo a rating as he he hardly touched the ball.

 

[asajoseph]

Of course the ref was right to send him off, he committed a professional foul. I just don't see how playing half a game with 10 men (and being suspended for several more games) to reduce the quality of one chance on goal for the opposition is anything but a very bad trade.

Of course it's a bad trade, but as I said before, that's very easy to say after the games over and you're in your ice bath in the dressing room (or whatever the players do these days ). The point is, Senderos was in a situaiton whereby he had to decide whether or not it was worth going for a tackle to prevent a 1-on-1 - as it happens, he didn't even try to tackle him, but just clipped the back of his legs, apparently, but the point is, Senderos is by no means the only defender who'd have a go in that situation.

No, it isn't. Kolo is to blame for giving Pompey a chance on goal. Phil, and Phil alone, is responsible for getting sent off, which frankly is a worse outcome.

Maybe. But again, the biggest mistake falls with kolo for putting his team-mate in that situation. I don't think there are many players who would have just stopped and said 'oh well, I've just got to let him shoot now'.

 

[oba101]

This is exactly why I don't agree that Senderos should get such low scores based on ONE mistake. He was solid while he was on, and someone, I'm not sure who, played him onside, two other defenders, Senderos included, were ahead of the two attackers, then they were played onside. ONE mistake by Senderos gets him 3.5, even after the solid performance, and the header that James saved, and Ade gets 6's and 7's after his poor misses. Why? Because he has the unique ability to run about and make himself noticed?

It was a huge mistake, and Phil was 'solid' against a Pompey side that had offered, up until the sending off, absolutely f**k all in attack. Kolo made a mistake in playing Kanu onside, but he might have recovered from it had Phil given him the chance instead of committing an incredibly stupid foul.

The ratings for Jens were much more harsh a few weeks ago, why does Senderos get let off so lightly?

He was solid, yes, imo, because it could take only ONE mistake from any defender to concede a goal, right?
Kolo played Kanu onside, and Phil was the nearest, so he responded, and chased after him, and I think their legs got tangled, or he fouled him intentionally, or Kanu dived, there was nothing he could do, but follow him, and try to dispossess him. He didn't cost us a goal, like Lehmann, and it wasn't such a blatant error. He is 22 years old, isn't he?
He'll learn.