Recent Transfers since 2019 Hit or Miss?

[Oxeki]

That Athletic Article was dumb af though, they had Maguire as a hit.

Relative to other United's signings, he's a hit tbf.

 

[VancouverCanuck]

Agree with OnlyOne, but again end of this season changes everything though.

If Partey's contract ended today his legacy at the club would be non existent/disappointing.

Don't disagree.

However, that measure, Saliba cannot be considered a hit either. He's done all anyone could have asked for so far. But ~20 matches is not even close to a full season, let alone building a legacy here.

Like others said, it's too soon to consider anyone who started playing this season a "hit". I would wait for a full season at least.

 

[Macho]

However, that measure, Saliba cannot be considered a hit either. He's done all anyone could have asked for so far. But ~20 matches is not even close to a full season, let alone building a legacy here

Hence why I had him as Jury’s out in my list.

His Arsenal career has consisted of loans and this current run which will be defined by whether he can overcome his slight dip that he’s experiencing currently.

If Arsenal attain 4th and above with the minutes he’s stacking up, for me he’s a hit. Not until then though.

 

[jones]

No idea how anyone could class Zinchenko as a hit. He's looked good when fit but played as many minutes as Vieira and had three different injuries already this season. We paid 35m for him when it was known he was a sick note from day and because Tierney and Tomiyasu are as unreliable as he is we still have to consider additions to our backline.

You can be a good player but a bad signing, or decent signing while average player etc. Zinchenko is clearly talented but at this point closer to Miss than Jury's Out imo.

 

[jones]

Nicolas Pepe £72 mil: Miss
Ben White £50 mil: Jury's Out still, class at RB not so class CB signing.
Thomas Partey £40 mil: Hit (injuries are definitely an issue but he's elevated the team almost every time he plays. We'd be in a battle for 4th this season without him)
Gabriel Jesus £45 mil: Jury's Out (great all round play, barren spell and now out for the season from another injury prone player. Would be a Hit if he didn't cost as much as he did)
Martin Ødegaard £34 mil: Hit (great this season, mixed bag last one)
Fabio Vieria £35 mil: Between Jury's Out and Miss so far (considering the fee you'd expect more but too early to say)
Oleksandr Zinchenko: £32 mil: Miss
Willian Saliba £27 mil: Hit (under 30m for a talent like him is a steal, we've sent him away too often and he's been here a minute but he's transformed our backline and both his partners on the pitch have improved partly because of him. Even if we had to sell and even with Edu on the wheel we'd probably make a big profit on him)
Kieran Tierney £25 mil: Miss (missed far too many games, takes a long time to get back up to speed. Like him as a player but he hasn't impressed in his time at the club being fully honest)
Aaron Ramsdale £30 mil: Jury's Out - wild fluctuations in form last season but closer to Hit than Miss
Gabriel Magalhaes £27 mil: Hit (only clearcut Hit on this list)

 

[SA Gunner]

Nicolas Pepe £72 mil: Miss
Ben White £50 mil: Jury's Out still, class at RB not so class CB signing.
Thomas Partey £40 mil: Hit (injuries are definitely an issue but he's elevated the team almost every time he plays. We'd be in a battle for 4th this season without him)
Gabriel Jesus £45 mil: Jury's Out (great all round play, barren spell and now out for the season from another injury prone player. Would be a Hit if he didn't cost as much as he did)
Martin Ødegaard £34 mil: Hit (great this season, mixed bag last one)
Fabio Vieria £35 mil: Between Jury's Out and Miss so far (considering the fee you'd expect more but too early to say)
Oleksandr Zinchenko: £32 mil: Miss
Willian Saliba £27 mil: Hit (under 30m for a talent like him is a steal, we've sent him away too often and he's been here a minute but he's transformed our backline and both his partners on the pitch have improved partly because of him. Even if we had to sell and even with Edu on the wheel we'd probably make a big profit on him)
Kieran Tierney £25 mil: Miss (missed far too many games, takes a long time to get back up to speed. Like him as a player but he hasn't impressed in his time at the club being fully honest)
Aaron Ramsdale £30 mil: Jury's Out - wild fluctuations in form last season but closer to Hit than Miss
Gabriel Magalhaes £27 mil: Hit (only clearcut Hit on this list)

Gabriel Magalhaes is a hit at CB but its implied that Ben White is not a hit at CB.

Explain that one mate?

 

[jones]

Gabriel Magalhaes is a hit at CB but its implied that Ben White is not a hit at CB.

Explain that one mate?

Based on their showing at Arsenal Gabriel is a better CB than White, has a clanger in him sure but he's much more proactive in his defending than White centrally (who's had a big mistake in him there too fwiw). When you consider we've paid 2x Gabriel's fee for White there's little doubt left imo.

 

[SA Gunner]

Here is my reading of the center back situation at our club right now. Ben White has been the most consistent CB out of all our CB's so far and he's now playing RB. These include Tomiyasu (inconsistent due to injuries), Gabriel (inconsistent due to giving the opposition a defensive position to target which leads to high quality goal scoring chances for them) and Saliba (mistakes that lead to conceded goals).

All that said, the only CB I would move to the bench or cash in on is Gabriel. Love his heart and spirit but technically he isnt going to be enough to elevate us to elite levels. Where we push a high line and keep the ball for long periods in matches, without errors. If an offer of 50m comes in, I'd take it.

 

[SA Gunner]

Based on their showing at Arsenal Gabriel is a better CB than White, has a clanger in him sure but he's much more proactive in his defending than White centrally (who's had a big mistake in him there too fwiw). When you consider we've paid 2x Gabriel's fee for White there's little doubt left imo.

Im actually struggling to remember a clanger Ben White has dropped while at CB, do you remember any? And I remember multiple clangers from both Maghalaes and Saliba, which have led to a direct disadvantage for the team, like going behind or conceding penalties.

Edit. One mistake I can remember from White, not sure if it was CB or inverted RB but Ill count it. It was the foul White commits when he lost a duel which would have had the attacker onto a 1v1 with Ramsdale. Didnt lead to a goal in that game, but that foul and conceded free kick was necessary after his mistake.

Now, its easy to blame Gabriel and Saliba individually, but its also unfair. Because playing in our system with such a high line, is not easy. It actually says more about the quality of White that he has been so consistent in his CB performances.

So I dont agree with you mate, White has been more consistent than any other CB at this club over the last two seasons.

 

[jones]

Im actually struggling to remember a clanger Ben White has dropped while at CB, do you remember any? And I remember multiple clangers from both Maghalaes and Saliba, which have led to a direct disadvantage for the team, like going behind or conceding penalties.

Now, its easy to blame Gabriel and Saliba individually, but its also unfair. Because playing in our system with such a high line, is not easy. It actually says more about the quality of White that he has been so consistent in his CB performances.

So I dont agree with you mate, White has been more consistent than any other CB at this club over the last two seasons.

Scored an own goal at St James and was at fault for the 1-0 loss at St Mary's, acted like he was injured after a corner, played everyone onside in the process then couldn't get close to the attacker for the goal.

I've done this discussion several times over with @Rex Bezos it's an incredibly myopic way of rating a defender by just looking at the mistakes they make. A mistake that leads to a goal is something that happens maybe two, three or four times over the length of the season, defending is something that happens 90 minutes x 38 games. Not even just the aggression in defending 1v1 especially on the ball I was a bit disappointed by White in 21/22, Gabriel who's supposed to be the clogger in comparison did much more distribution wise, pressure relief, starting attacks etc than White who usually played it safe.

Went into his shell for large spells last season while Gabriel has never done so, even for the games he's dropped a clanger in he's often even made amends by scoring in the same game. You're right that judging individually wouldn't be fair because White would look even worse in that case - we've conceded 10 goals more in the season we've replaced Holding with him as Gabriel's partner. Not how defenders should be measured anyway.

100% clear in my mind Gabriel is the better CB right now. It could be that White can translate his great form at RB to CB but on account on what I've seen from them at Arsenal there's no way for me to rate the latter higher centrally.

 

[SA Gunner]

Scored an own goal at St James and was at fault for the 1-0 loss at St Mary's, acted like he was injured after a corner, played everyone onside in the process then couldn't get close to the attacker for the goal.

I've done this discussion several times over with @Rex Bezos it's an incredibly myopic way of rating a defender by just looking at the mistakes they make. A mistake that leads to a goal is something that happens maybe two, three or four times over the length of the season, defending is something that happens 90 minutes x 38 games. Not even just the aggression in defending 1v1 especially on the ball I was a bit disappointed by White in 21/22, Gabriel who's supposed to be the clogger in comparison did much more distribution wise, pressure relief, starting attacks etc than White who usually played it safe.

Went into his shell for large spells last season while Gabriel has never done so, even for the games he's dropped a clanger in he's often even made amends by scoring in the same game. You're right that judging individually wouldn't be fair because White would look even worse in that case - we've conceded 10 goals more in the season we've replaced Holding with him as Gabriel's partner. Not how defenders should be measured anyway.

100% clear in my mind Gabriel is the better CB right now. It could be that White can translate his great form at RB to CB but on account on what I've seen from them at Arsenal there's no way for me to rate the latter higher centrally.

No, I dont think its myopic at all. You rate defenders, or any players for that matter, based on their overall contributions to the team. The more trouble they put us in, the less reliant they are and sooner they need to get out of the team because it costs us. That's why Rob Holding and Elneny do not start for the first team for example, because their contributions are of less quality than their counterparts.

Thanks for the examples on White but you have still failed to give me a good enough reasons to put Maghalaes above White as a better center back. Gabriel has made more mistakes, this season alone (Mitrovic/Fulham, the sliding tackle on Fernandes/United before the pass out to Antony and the penalty giveaway by lunging in on Richarlison/Sp**s) to demonstrate that he is at risk when in critical situations. Yes, there is a valid argument to make about the problem starting earlier than Gabriel, Ill give you that.

Is Gabriel good enough for a title challenge? Yes, because he gives us intelligence and quality in our system to get the job done, and plays with players who bring out his strengths, which there are many of. Is he the first name to be upgraded upon or even benched for someone to take his place? I answer yes again.

 

[jones]

No, I dont think its myopic at all. You rate defenders, or any players for that matter, based on their overall contributions to the team. The more trouble they put us in, the less reliant they are and sooner they need to get out of the team because it costs us. That's why Rob Holding and Elneny do not start for the first team for example, because their contributions are of less quality than their counterparts.

Thanks for the examples on White but you have still failed to give me a good enough reasons to put Maghalaes above White as a better center back. Gabriel has made more mistakes, this season alone (Mitrovic/Fulham, the sliding tackle on Fernandes/United before and the penalty giveaway by lunging in on Richarlison/Sp**s) to demonstrate that he is at risk when in critical situations. Yes, there is a valid argument to make about the problem starting earlier than Gabriel, Ill give you that.

Is Gabriel good enough for a title challenge? Yes, because he gives us intelligence and quality in our system to get the job done, and plays with players who bring out his strengths, which there are many of. Is he the first name to be upgraded upon or even benched for someone to take his place? I answer yes again.

You haven't refuted my argument of it being myopic. I haven't said you should ignore mistakes, obviously if a defender has a good game but passes it into his own net that takes precedence in how you rate his performance. But if a player over 90 minutes has never or rarely been in any position to make a vital challenge or put pressure on an attacker driving him away it won't be considered as him making a mistake while still constituting a poor performance for me. White has had lots more of those than Gabriel last season.

The errors I've acknowledged but again, Ramos Chiellini Silva Boateng etc all have regularly made them in the past. What I've also mentioned but you haven't is how Gabriel has always bounced back - against Liverpool he makes a mistake in clearing the ball but then marches forward in injury time creating the 2-1 with a dummy, vs Fulham he did lose the ball to Mitrovic but then scores the winner in the dying minutes etc. Five goals from CB just last season including several winners while White is yet to open his account has to count for something too.

Don't think Gabriel is nearly as easy to be replaced as you make it out to be, he's been class this season and an integral part of our backline, LB is the only position we could easily upgrade right now everywhere else we're talking mostly depth.

 

[SA Gunner]

You haven't refuted my argument of it being myopic. I haven't said you should ignore mistakes, obviously if a defender has a good game but passes it into his own net that takes precedence in how you rate his performance. But if a player over 90 minutes has never or rarely been in any position to make a vital challenge or put pressure on an attacker driving him away it won't be considered as him making a mistake while still constituting a poor performance for me. White has had lots more of those than Gabriel last season.

The errors I've acknowledged but again, Ramos Chiellini Silva Boateng etc all have regularly made them in the past. What I've also mentioned but you haven't is how Gabriel has always bounced back - against Liverpool he makes a mistake in clearing the ball but then marches forward in injury time creating the 2-1 with a dummy, vs Fulham he did lose the ball to Mitrovic but then scores the winner in the dying minutes etc. Five goals from CB just last season including several winners while White is yet to open his account has to count for something too.

Don't think Gabriel is nearly as easy to be replaced as you make it out to be, he's been class this season and an integral part of our backline, LB is the only position we could easily upgrade right now everywhere else we're talking mostly depth.

I havent refuted the myopic argument you make, because I honestly dont think its relevant to the discussion. There's only one way to measure the suitability of a player in a team, and that is by the number of good performances he brings, the more the merrier. And by how fewer his bad performances are, the less the better. The fact that this is a myopic view is an unfortunate byproduct of the reality of the situation.

Gabriel bounces back, that's great but is that even relevant? I am not in the management meetings at Arsenal, but I can almost bet that Gabriel bouncing back from errors he was responsible for, doesnt diminish the fact that he still committed those errors, due to deficiencies in his defensive game. The key point is not to make the errors in the first place, or severely diminish making errors. Not consider his bouncbackability as some mitigating factor.

As for his replaceability, yes I agree with you on this one. And its actually the main driver for his continued stay at the club as our starting left footed left CB. Left footed players carrying a higher premium these days. But, I do feel that if we find a player that can fit our system (someone mentioned Gvardiol for example) then we should absolutely send Gabriel for a high fee and upgrade on him.

Basically, I dont think he is our best CB. What he is number 1 at right now for me, is being the number 1 high sale, out the door, if the right opportunity presented itself.

 

[jones]

I havent refuted the myopic argument you make, because I honestly dont think its relevant to the discussion. There's only one way to measure the suitability of a player in a team, and that is by the number of good performances he brings, the more the merrier. And by how fewer his bad performances are, the less the better. The fact that this is a myopic view is an unfortunate byproduct of the reality of the situation.

I don't see how you've refuted anything, you're now saying many good performances are important and few bad performances are too. That's literally my point, instead of just focussing on the absence of mistakes a good defender has to be measured by the good he does as well.

Gabriel bounces back, that's great but is that even relevant? I am not in the management meetings at Arsenal, but I can almost bet that Gabriel bouncing back from errors he was responsible for, doesnt diminish the fact that he still committed those errors, due to deficiencies in his defensive game. The key point is not to make the errors in the first place, or severely diminish making errors. Not consider his bouncbackability as some mitigating factor.

Of course it's a mitigating point it factors in the way I've mentioned before. Making errors is part and parcel of being a defender, to be a top CB you have to take risks and be proactive both in distribution and 1v1 defending. Gabriel puts himself about a lot more than White centrally, e.g. if Gabriel makes one mistake leading to a goal but prevents two 100% chances for the opposition because of his aggression that's factually a better performance than White who didn't make the mistake but wasn't around to defend those two chances either.

As for his replaceability, yes I agree with you on this one. And its actually the main driver for his continued stay at the club as our starting left footed left CB. Left footed players carrying a higher premium these days. But, I do feel that if we find a player that can fit our system (someone mentioned Gvardiol for example) then we should absolutely send Gabriel for a high fee and upgrade on him.

Basically, I dont think he is our best CB. What he is number 1 at right now for me, is being the number 1 high sale, out the door, if the right opportunity presented itself.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree here. Gvardiol would start for virtually every team in the world right now and is linked in 100m+ moves to PSG City and Madrid, zero chance we're getting involved in there and even if we were we might as well get 100m+ upgrades on most other positions we have. Think Gabriel is here to stay, he's a big character in the squad and for me central to our success this season (as is White in his new position).

 

[SA Gunner]

I don't see how you've refuted anything, you're now saying many good performances are important and few bad performances are too. That's literally my point, instead of just focussing on the absence of mistakes a good defender has to be measured by the good he does as well.

Yes, I don't understand what the confusion is here. Being a good defender, a good player, is doing more good work than bad work on the field of play. Contributing to a winning outcome and less to a losing outcome. What does being myopic have to do with this basic assessment of a player's ability? Sure, its myopic to look at it this way, but what else should I be doing?

Of course it's a mitigating point it factors in the way I've mentioned before. Making errors is part and parcel of being a defender, to be a top CB you have to take risks and be proactive both in distribution and 1v1 defending. Gabriel puts himself about a lot more than White centrally, e.g. if Gabriel makes one mistake leading to a goal but prevents two 100% chances for the opposition because of his aggression that's factually a better performance than White who didn't make the mistake but wasn't around to defend those two chances either.

Im sorry, I just cannot accept this reasoning. Yes, mistakes happen in football and being able to bounce back from them is admirable. But to tell me you are now putting yourself in those positions and making the mistakes is better than the player not around to be in that position to make the mistake is just folly to me. You dont dunk on White because he wasnt in the position to lose the ball to Mitrovic. That is a Gabriel mistake that cost us a goal. A better defense of that mistake that Gabriel made, is that Gabriel was able to score the winner in the end.

Yeah we'll have to agree to disagree here. Gvardiol would start for virtually every team in the world right now and is linked in 100m+ moves to PSG City and Madrid, zero chance we're getting involved in there and even if we were we might as well get 100m+ upgrades on most other positions we have. Think Gabriel is here to stay, he's a big character in the squad and for me central to our success this season (as is White in his new position).

We actually agree here, and for me this is the main reason why Gabriel stays. Ahead of any other reason I can think of. His rare profile as a player, for the type of football we play, for the cost it will be to upgrade on him makes us stick with him. It makes more sense to stick with Gabriel when you balance the positives and the negatives, including the mistakes that he makes. Its the same argument with TP5, and the reason he starts for us. The amount of positives he brings the the field of play, outweigh the negatives, considering all negatives.

I think I understand your reasoning now, and have made my points in response. The good news is, that Gabriel isnt going anywhere and that Gabriel can only get better with time. So we're in a good situation, despite having differences.

 

[14Henry]

Nicolas Pepe £72 mil: MISS
Ben White £50 mil: HIT
Thomas Partey £40 mil: HIT (Providing stays fit)
Gabriel Jesus £45 mil: HIT
Martin Ødegaard £34 mil: HIT
Fabio Vieria £35 mil: JURYS OUT HAVENT SEEN ENOUGH
Oleksandr Zinchenko: £32 mil: JURY OUT BUT MORE HIT THAN MISS.
Willian Saliba £27 mil: HIT
Kieran Tierney £25 mil: HIT BUT GETTING CLOSE TO MISS WITH INJURIES
Aaron Ramsdale £30 mil: HIT
Gabriel Magalhaes £27 mil: HIT.

Others I would add.

Tomiyasu- Similar to Tierney. When plays a HIT but injuries are mounting and his availability isn't reliable.

Most peoples are probably similar. Seen a few questioning my man Gabriel. One of the top young defenders in the league. We would probably need to spend north of 70-80m to find someone better and he will improve with time. Still young for a defender.

 

[jones]

Yes, I don't understand what the confusion is here. Being a good defender, a good player, is doing more good work than bad work on the field of play. Contributing to a winning outcome and less to a losing outcome. What does being myopic have to do with this basic assessment of a player's ability? Sure, its myopic to look at it this way, but what else should I be doing?



Im sorry, I just cannot accept this reasoning. Yes, mistakes happen in football and being able to bounce back from them is admirable. But to tell me you are now putting yourself in those positions and making the mistakes is better than the player not around to be in that position to make the mistake is just folly to me. You dont dunk on White because he wasnt in the position to lose the ball to Mitrovic. That is a Gabriel mistake that cost us a goal. A better defense of that mistake that Gabriel made, is that Gabriel was able to score the winner in the end.

I wasn't saying White not being in Gabriel's position was a negative, he's playing at RB and the ball was firmly in Gabriel's territory when he lost it. I'm saying looking at just the mistakes without considering that Gabriel has had more and thereby more successful defensive interactions than White due to his playing style is myopic.

Either way we're agreeing about us being in a good situation, White being such a revelation at RB has turned a possibly critical situation - surplus of CBs, no adequate RB - into a big net positive.

 

[Makingtrax]

Yes, I don't understand what the confusion is here. Being a good defender, a good player, is doing more good work than bad work on the field of play. Contributing to a winning outcome and less to a losing outcome. What does being myopic have to do with this basic assessment of a player's ability? Sure, its myopic to look at it this way, but what else should I be doing?



Im sorry, I just cannot accept this reasoning. Yes, mistakes happen in football and being able to bounce back from them is admirable. But to tell me you are now putting yourself in those positions and making the mistakes is better than the player not around to be in that position to make the mistake is just folly to me. You dont dunk on White because he wasnt in the position to lose the ball to Mitrovic. That is a Gabriel mistake that cost us a goal. A better defense of that mistake that Gabriel made, is that Gabriel was able to score the winner in the end.



We actually agree here, and for me this is the main reason why Gabriel stays. Ahead of any other reason I can think of. His rare profile as a player, for the type of football we play, for the cost it will be to upgrade on him makes us stick with him. It makes more sense to stick with Gabriel when you balance the positives and the negatives, including the mistakes that he makes. Its the same argument with TP5, and the reason he starts for us. The amount of positives he brings the the field of play, outweigh the negatives, considering all negatives.

I think I understand your reasoning now, and have made my points in response. The good news is, that Gabriel isnt going anywhere and that Gabriel can only get better with time. So we're in a good situation, despite having differences.

I don’t think you judge a CB by the mistakes he makes, like goalkeepers they all make the odd mistake, but you have to balance that against their overall contribution. That bobble off Saliba’s knee could happen to any player for example.

But let’s generally look at our defence last year compared to this year - chalk and cheese. We let in 48 goals with White as CB and Tomi at RB and at times they looked very shaky. This year they’re as solid as a rock. Saliba is such an improvement on White and White is an improvement on Tomi. We’ve only let in 14 goals and we’re almost half way through the season. There’s no argument here, surely. White has proved his value to the team at RB. Yes, we over payed for him, but if he continues like this it’s all been worth it. He seems to be growing into that position too and now making excellent contributions to the attack as well as to the midfield during the inversion. It’s not worth the discussion, whether it’s by chance or by design (and I know we disagree on this) the whole thing has worked out incredibly well.

 

[SA Gunner]

I don’t think you judge a CB by the mistakes he makes, like goalkeepers they all make the odd mistake, but you have to balance that against their overall contribution. That bobble off Saliba’s knee could happen to any player for example.

But let’s generally look at our defence last year compared to this year - chalk and cheese. We let in 48 goals with White as CB and Tomi at RB and at times they looked very shaky. This year they’re as solid as a rock. Saliba is such an improvement on White and White is an improvement on Tomi. We’ve only let in 14 goals and we’re almost half way through the season. There’s no argument here, surely. White has proved his value to the team at RB. Yes, we over payed for him, but if he continues like this it’s all been worth it. He seems to be growing into that position too and now making excellent contributions to the attack as well as to the midfield during the inversion. It’s not worth the discussion, whether it’s by chance or by design (and I know we disagree on this) the whole thing has worked out incredibly well.

White hasnt now proven himself as worthy because of his right back performances. I make the argument that White has shown his worth to the team as a center back, last season already. And the basis of my argument is that when comparing the performances of our defensive players, White has been more consistently good in his individual performances than all our other defenders so far. And yes, those defensive mistakes by White, Gabriel and Saliba contributes to my analysis.

Your chalk and cheese argument highlights the systemic changes to our defensive system. Yes, it is true that our improvements by bringing Saliba in and moving White to right back has contributed to a better defense. But so has the introduction of Zinchenko, the more natural performances of Tierney in the inverted role, the improvements of Xhaka and Ødegaard when playing with their backs to goal and dropping into deeper areas of the pitch, the introduction of players like Jesus and other changes made. So we cant only highlight the fact that Saliba has come into the side and White scooting over, as the magic pill that has improved our defense, as what you seem to suggest here. Its an argument you make when you like a player... that's nice, but its not complete when we want to analyse properly.

The argument on the quality of our players comes back to their individual performances. The reason Lacazette was replaced by Jesus was because of the individual qualities brought in by Jesus. Similarly with Saka replacing Pepe, being a choice driven by the individual qualities of those players, and their contributions to the system of play. Its the reason why Jesus is rated higher than Nketiah and why Nketiah was rubbished amongst our fanbase when called upon to replace Jesus. Individual qualities and performances matter.

It is why I maintain that when saying Gabriel Magalhaes is our best defender, or Saliba for that matter. It has to be an analysis of their individual contributions made. Which is why I put White above both of them in the CB position. He has been consistently better than both of them over the last season and a bit.

Think its unfair to compare Saliba to White though, as they havent really played in the same role together in the same defensive system. My argument is more for Gabriel v White. Two players who played together in a similar system.

 

[Makingtrax]

White hasnt now proven himself as worthy because of his right back performances. I make the argument that White has shown his worth to the team as a center back, last season already. And the basis of my argument is that when comparing the performances of our defensive players, White has been more consistently good in his individual performances than all our other defenders so far. And yes, those defensive mistakes by White, Gabriel and Saliba contributes to my analysis.

Your chalk and cheese argument highlights the systemic changes to our defensive system. Yes, it is true that our improvements by bringing Saliba in and moving White to right back has contributed to a better defense. But so has the introduction of Zinchenko, the more natural performances of Tierney in the inverted role, the improvements of Xhaka and Ødegaard when playing with their backs to goal and dropping into deeper areas of the pitch, the introduction of players like Jesus and other changes made. So we cant only highlight the fact that Saliba has come into the side, as the magic pill that has improved our defense, as what you seem to suggest here. Its an argument you make when you like a player... that's nice, but its not complete when we want to analyse properly.

The argument on the quality of our players comes back to their individual performances. The reason Lacazette was replaced by Jesus was because of the individual qualities brought in by Jesus. Similarly with Saka replacing Pepe, being a choice driven by the individual qualities of those players, and their contributions to the system of play.

It is why I maintain that when saying Gabriel Magalhaes is our best defender, or Saliba for that matter. It has to be an analysis of their individual contributions made. Which is why I put White above both of them in the CB position. He has been consistently better than both of them over the last season and a bit.

We just have to disagree. I take your point about the team having Jesus and Zinchenko in it this year, but the midfield last year was largely the same as this year. And when Tierney has played instead of Zinchenko, the defence has looked just as solid eg Brentford, Villa, West Ham etc.

Gabriel and Ramsdale have stayed in their same positions too. The only major change in our defence has been the Saliba/ White instead of White/Tomi and in my eyes and in the ‘goals against’ statistic there’s been a drastic improvement, and it’s been one of the major reasons we’re in pole position.