Ronaldinho vs Neymar

[pigge]

Any play that quit playing the game before 85-90 basically played vs a good sunday league football team.

If we talk how good they actually are. Basically all good players in their relative position now are better than them.

For their time though, they were amazing

 

[AberGooner]

If we talk how good they actually are. Basically all good players in their relative position now are better than them.

Have to laugh whenever I see stuff like this. As if they where playing in the stone age.

 

[pigge]

Have to laugh whenever I see stuff like this. As if they where playing in the stone age.

They actually did. Especially before 80s

 

[db10_therza]

Any play that quit playing the game before 85-90 basically played vs a good sunday league football team.

If we talk how good they actually are. Basically all good players in their relative position now are better than them.

For their time though, they were amazing

I’m terms of physical conditioning yeah, but not in terms of technique. If anything, given the state of the balls and pitches and boots back then, when you see a clip of maradonna doing some madness back in the 80s you be damn well sure he’d be able to pull the same madness off now.

 

[pigge]

I’m terms of physical conditioning yeah, but not in terms of technique. If anything, given the state of the balls and pitches and boots back then, when you see a clip of maradonna doing some madness back in the 80s you be damn well sure he’d be able to pull the same madness off now.

Maradona and Pele was ahead of their time for sure. But the defensive state of the game was abysmal. Players could as well be mannequins. I think Pele and Maradona at their peak would not look nearly as good today as they did back then. I can't imagine what would've happened if Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Henry, Salah etc. Played in the 70/80s. The best of them probably over 150 g/a per season if not more. Gretzky numbers really

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Any play that quit playing the game before 85-90 basically played vs a good sunday league football team.

If we talk how good they actually are. Basically all good players in their relative position now are better than them.

For their time though, they were amazing

They didn't have the premier league super league that they have today and each league would have less superstars. You also had far far worse fouling in the game of the 80s. Domestic leagues were probably more comparable to bundisliga

The 80s and 90s also lended itself to more individual brilliance where you had far more players scoring wondergoals. Where as today football is more systematic.

I'd also love to see the Sunday league team that has the likes of Johan Cruyff and George Best

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Maradona and Pele was ahead of their time for sure. But the defensive state of the game was abysmal. Players could as well be mannequins. I think Pele and Maradona at their peak would not look nearly as good today as they did back then. I can't imagine what would've happened if Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Henry, Salah etc. Played in the 70/80s. The best of them probably over 150 g/a per season if not more. Gretzky numbers really

So you think Salah and Kaka are going to score and assist more than Maradona and Cruyff. Cool story bro.

 

[Macho]

Maradona and Pele was ahead of their time for sure. But the defensive state of the game was abysmal. Players could as well be mannequins.

NOW defenders are mannequins. Have to defend with their hands behind their back, jump without having your arms out too much. VAR, goal line technology and offside tech too.

Before you could fly kick the player, ragdoll them a bit especially if they are a foreigner to your league then it was even encouraged. Now there are more goals than ever and centrebacks are auxiliary playmakers.

The game has changed but not necessarily improved or regressed, just changed. Something in society may change and football may become a contact sport again due to changes in attitudes in 50 years time we don't know.

Bootcuts are already back after a few years of feminine skinny jeans in the 2010's just like the 80s. The process into manufacturing the jeans has improved, but fashion is still fashion. Just like the technology around football has improved, but the tactics are cyclical in nature.

Regardless, I can't believe people go round actually thinking this stone age stuff.

 

[djpeat]

Why is this even a question?
Ronaldinho easy

 

[ThePortugueseGunner]

Maradona and Pele was ahead of their time for sure. But the defensive state of the game was abysmal. Players could as well be mannequins. I think Pele and Maradona at their peak would not look nearly as good today as they did back then. I can't imagine what would've happened if Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Henry, Salah etc. Played in the 70/80s. The best of them probably over 150 g/a per season if not more. Gretzky numbers really

I don't mean to disrespect, but I find this argument so lazy. I don't know how old you are, but this strikes me as an opinion a guy younger than me would have (I'm 25).

If talents like Pelé and Maradona were playing in this era, with all the luxury conditions in great clubs, playing organized football since they were kids, they would still kill it, like they did in their era.

If Ronaldo and Messi were playing in the 60's, they would still be the greatest of their era, but you wouldn't see them having the longevity they had. Players took a whole lot more hits, football was way more agressive. Maradona was the target of completely ruthless tackles. In the '82 World Cup, for example, the Italians almost murdered him on the pitch.

It's really, really naive to think that the greats of earlier eras wouldn't be great now with the modern methods, conditioning and organization. If Pelé was playing today, he would be killing it in the PL or La Liga, just like the modern greats do.

Almost forgot! My childhood idol Ronaldinho > Neymar all day

 

[pigge]

So you think Salah and Kaka are going to score and assist more than Maradona and Cruyff. Cool story bro.

In their time? Salah, Absolutely. Kaka maybe. Imagine Salah in eredivise 1960-1970. unlimited goals and assist.

Maradona played well into the 90's so he doesn't really count imo, I said footballers who quit 85-90(or earlier).

 

[pigge]

I don't mean to disrespect, but I find this argument so lazy. I don't know how old you are, but this strikes me as an opinion a guy younger than me would have (I'm 25).

If talents like Pelé and Maradona were playing in this era, with all the luxury conditions in great clubs, playing organized football since they were kids, they would still kill it, like they did in their era.

I'm quite older than you at 35.

You are missing the point though, I'm not comparing talent. I'm saying the players, for example the ones i mentioned, are better players than they were. I don't really care about the circumstances, just the ability they have displayed when playing.

With your line of argument you can't really say Messi is better than C.Ronaldo, since if he has Messis upbringing and went to barcelona when he was young he might be better. Which makes it impossible to compare players.

If Ronaldo and Messi were playing in the 60's, they would still be the greatest of their era, but you wouldn't see them having the longevity they had. Players took a whole lot more hits, football was way more agressive. Maradona was the target of completely ruthless tackles. In the '82 World Cup, for example, the Italians almost murdered him on the pitch.

I'm not comparing longevity either. It might have been rougher though, but seems wrong to assume a player would be worse cause he would get injured, kind of just misses the point of comparing how good they were, not how lucky they were with injuries.

It's really, really naive to think that the greats of earlier eras wouldn't be great now with the modern methods, conditioning and organization. If Pelé was playing today, he would be killing it in the PL or La Liga, just like the modern greats do.

Almost forgot! My childhood idol Ronaldinho > Neymar all day

Same point as the first here!

I'm glad we agree Ronaldinho > Neymar though

 

[pigge]

NOW defenders are mannequins. Have to defend with their hands behind their back, jump without having your arms out too much. VAR, goal line technology and offside tech too.

Before you could fly kick the player, ragdoll them a bit especially if they are a foreigner to your league then it was even encouraged. Now there are more goals than ever and centrebacks are auxiliary playmakers.

The game has changed but not necessarily improved or regressed, just changed. Something in society may change and football may become a contact sport again due to changes in attitudes in 50 years time we don't know.

Bootcuts are already back after a few years of feminine skinny jeans in the 2010's just like the 80s. The process into manufacturing the jeans has improved, but fashion is still fashion. Just like the technology around football has improved, but the tactics are cyclical in nature.

Regardless, I can't believe people go round actually thinking this stone age stuff.

The game might not have changed as much as it has been recycled, but the players have, the footballing schooling have, the athleticism.

The technique of a decent players to day is sooo much higher than before. And the way to tackle is more refined and better from a technique standpoint. They now better how to stop dribblers.

If someone could dribble in the 70's like hazard they would just run past the entire team. Quality was so much lower back in the days. I can't believe you believe that the game was equal 40-50 years ago to today. Improvements in player are very obvious to see in my opinion.

Arsène came with the idea to eat good and revolutioized football. People were chainsmoking and binge drinking everyday back then.

 

[pigge]

I’m terms of physical conditioning yeah, but not in terms of technique. If anything, given the state of the balls and pitches and boots back then, when you see a clip of maradonna doing some madness back in the 80s you be damn well sure he’d be able to pull the same madness off now.

What?!

Technique has increased unreal since from 70-80's. Wingbacks dribble like Maradona now. How has the technique not changed yet? Average player has sooo much better technique than before.

 

[db10_therza]

What?!

Technique has increased unreal since from 70-80's. Wingbacks dribble like Maradona now. How has the technique not changed yet? Average player has sooo much better technique than before.

No I don’t mean the average technique of current players vs past - the pool of players has gone up like 100x in that time, so obviously the average technique level has gone up.

What I’m saying is that individual technical ability from the 80s will transfer very well into the modern era. Because boots are better, pitches are better, balls are better so controlling a football at pace in the Modern era is much easier than it was 30/40 years ago

 

[pigge]

No I don’t mean the average technique of current players vs past - the pool of players has gone up like 100x in that time, so obviously the average technique level has gone up.

What I’m saying is that individual technical ability from the 80s will transfer very well into the modern era. Because boots are better, pitches are better, balls are better so controlling a football at pace in the Modern era is much easier than it was 30/40 years ago

That is true. But the quality of players and their technique has risen ALOT the last 40-50 years is my point. And it shows

 

[Buhry]

Maradona and Pele was ahead of their time for sure. But the defensive state of the game was abysmal. Players could as well be mannequins. I think Pele and Maradona at their peak would not look nearly as good today as they did back then. I can't imagine what would've happened if Neymar, Messi, C.Ronaldo, Mbappe, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Henry, Salah etc. Played in the 70/80s. The best of them probably over 150 g/a per season if not more. Gretzky numbers really

But Maradona and Pele also would have had access to better training facilities, better coaching (physically in particular), better nutrtition, and the standards in general would have made them elevate their game as well. I think if you put them in the modern game their talent would shine through and they'd be some of the best regardless of era.

Like if you went 30 years in time and slapped messi in there would he be much better than peak maradona? Maybe, maybe not. Talking about 150 g/a is ridiculous. Times would have affected them as well. Sure if you took a time machine and teleported prme Messi or Henry to the 70's then they probably would get absolutely mad numbers. But if they grew up around that time they wouldn't be as good as they are today either, they'd have their talent but the same poor facilities and nutrtiton training advice etc as everyone else.

I think when it comes to football some players just have ''it'' and then it's a matter of honing it. Natural touch, agility, balance, that kinda thing. If you look at players like Ronaldinho they were allready very good when they were young kids in terms of their technique. But Messi played for the Barca academy since he was what, 12? I'm sure if you put a young Maradona in the barca academy he'd grow up to be an even better player as well.

if the argument is who literally is a better player in their peak disregarding circumstances then sure the modern players are probably quite clear ahead.
Allthough I don't think Ronaldinho and Neymar are far enough apart for that to matter, also think La liga was a relatively stronger league in the past. When Ronaldinho dominated it was probably the best league in Europe when looking at overall quality of teams.

 

[pigge]

But Maradona and Pele also would have had access to better training facilities, better coaching (physically in particular), better nutrtition, and the standards in general would have made them elevate their game as well. I think if you put them in the modern game their talent would shine through and they'd be some of the best regardless of era.

Like if you went 30 years in time and slapped messi in there would he be much better than peak maradona? Maybe, maybe not. Talking about 150 g/a is ridiculous. Times would have affected them as well. Sure if you took a time machine and teleported prme Messi or Henry to the 70's then they probably would get absolutely mad numbers. But if they grew up around that time they wouldn't be as good as they are today either, they'd have their talent but the same poor facilities and nutrtiton training advice etc as everyone else.

I think when it comes to football some players just have ''it'' and then it's a matter of honing it. Natural touch, agility, balance, that kinda thing. If you look at players like Ronaldinho they were allready very good when they were young kids in terms of their technique. But Messi played for the Barca academy since he was what, 12? I'm sure if you put a young Maradona in the barca academy he'd grow up to be an even better player as well.

if the argument is who literally is a better player in their peak disregarding circumstances then sure the modern players are probably quite clear ahead.
Allthough I don't think Ronaldinho and Neymar are far enough apart for that to matter, also think La liga was a relatively stronger league in the past. When Ronaldinho dominated it was probably the best league in Europe when looking at overall quality of teams.

I said this before in the thread: I'm just comparing the players at their best, not talent, nor upbringing etc. Since at least 3 people missunderstood that maybe I wasn't clear enough. But it's not what if Messi was in Maradonas mom's woomb and vice verca. I'm comparing the players when they were playing not anything else. By talent and random circumstances no one can actually talk about without random bs without any ground to stand on, I don't know.

However for the highlighted part. I would without a doubt bet my life that Messi would outdo Maradona during his time. And I would bet my life that Maradona could not do do what Messi did during his time. And I don't think anyone in their right mind would oppose me.

 

[Buhry]

I said this before in the thread: I'm just comparing the players at their best, not talent, nor upbringing etc. Since at least 3 people missunderstood that maybe I wasn't clear enough. But it's not what if Messi was in Maradonas mom's woomb and vice verca. I'm comparing the players when they were playing not anything else. By talent and random circumstances no one can actually talk about without random bs without any ground to stand on, I don't know.

However for the highlighted part. I would without a doubt bet my life that Messi would outdo Maradona during his time. And I would bet my life that Maradona could not do do what Messi did during his time. And I don't think anyone in their right mind would oppose me.

Sure if you shipped prime Messi 40 years back in time of course he'd be too good for that era. Not even remotely a fair comparison imo. Sure the best players now are better than the best players back then. You have to account for the circumstances. And then look Sports science and the amount of support these players get has massively increased. Everything is optimized so they can be the best. Of course they'll be better than someone born 30-40 years earlier.

By that logic any historically great striker is probably just ****. I doubt if you went back in time and found some ballon d'or contender from the 60's and put them straight in a PL team they'd adapt easily, they'd probably look way out of place. Doesn't mean they aren't historical football greats though. Ain't nobody out here inventing time machines when comparing messi and pele's achievements. ''But Argentina in 1958 would have won the world cup with prime Messi, he'd run circles around prime Pele''. That's just silly man.

 

[pigge]

Sure if you shipped prime Messi 40 years back in time of course he'd be too good for that era. Not even remotely a fair comparison imo. Sure the best players now are better than the best players back then. You have to account for the circumstances. And then look Sports science and the amount of support these players get has massively increased. Everything is optimized so they can be the best. Of course they'll be better than someone born 30-40 years earlier.

By that logic any historically great striker is probably just ****. I doubt if you went back in time and found some ballon d'or contender from the 60's and put them straight in a PL team they'd adapt easily, they'd probably look way out of place. Doesn't mean they aren't historical football greats though. Ain't nobody out here inventing time machines when comparing messi and pele's achievements. ''But Argentina in 1958 would have won the world cup with prime Messi, he'd run circles around prime Pele''. That's just silly man.

This is a thread comparing players(Ronaldinho vs Neymar more specifically, Ronaldinho > Neymar jr imo)..

And it seems we agree on principle that older players were ahead of their time, but not really good compared to todays players.

They might have more talent or they may not, but who knows, maybe they were born in the era were their talents were perfect for the time in football.

You can compare talent and you can compare the players they were, it's two different topics imo. My point was that as we've seen them play and what they could do. The newer generation is clearly better footballers.