Tir Na Nog
Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes
Country: Ireland
entropy13 said:@Tir: Who the hell are Serge Auriero and Lic Remy?
WTF???? I've no idea how that happened. :shock:
entropy13 said:@Tir: Who the hell are Serge Auriero and Lic Remy?
Rain Dance said:Tir : Except for Benzema, everyone else is a young player. I'd say that's a pretty low standard realistic choices.... No marquee signing except for Draxler
but I gotta admire your guts for saying Keisuke Honda, Marek Hamsik, El Sharaawy, and Yoann Gourcuff as not good enough (I don't believe you don't know them)
fabo said:Cesc has been basically a final third player for the last number of years. And now we're talking about him holding midfield behind Ramsey........
Rain Dance said:Tir : Except for Benzema, everyone else is a young player. I'd say that's a pretty low standard realistic choices.... No marquee signing except for Draxler
but I gotta admire your guts for saying Keisuke Honda, Marek Hamsik, El Sharaawy, and Yoann Gourcuff as not good enough (I don't believe you don't know them)
Tir Na Nog said:People are deluding themselves that Cesc is 1) coming back
and 2) is capable of playing a role which he hasn't played since he was like 15 at Barcelona.
Even when he was here at just broke into the team it was always Gilberto/Flamini holding allowing him to roam forward... you know, what he's best at doing.
He's never been a holding player for Arsenal,
he's rarely even had defensive responsibility at Arsenal or Barcelona.
At times he's been used as a false number 9 by club and country because they realise how much of his game is based on his end product.
There's no way in hell we sign one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet and play him so far out of position it's unreal, purely for nostalgic purposes. The same people moan about a lack of strength and defensive capabilities among our midfield, but yeah go sign a player who's defensive side of the game is pretty poor.
DJ_Markstar said:Tir Na Nog said:People are deluding themselves that Cesc is 1) coming back
Name me one poster who thinks he is definitely coming back? Just one?
and 2) is capable of playing a role which he hasn't played since he was like 15 at Barcelona.
Since he was like 15? He played a CM role here in 07/08 in a 2 man midfield. He wasn't 15.
Even when he was here at just broke into the team it was always Gilberto/Flamini holding allowing him to roam forward... you know, what he's best at doing.
If only we still had Flamini to hold for him...
He's never been a holding player for Arsenal,
No ****, Sherlock
he's rarely even had defensive responsibility at Arsenal or Barcelona.
He has. Just because he wasn't purely defensive in our midfield pre his move forward (to compensate for our inept attack, rather than because it suited his game), doesn't mean he had no defensive contribution. It's the biggest Fabregas myth.
At times he's been used as a false number 9 by club and country because they realise how much of his game is based on his end product.
ITT: Versatility is bad. How dare you be able to play multiple positions, this will now count against you. Spain played him alongside Silva as a pair of false 9s because Torres was poor and they had Alonso/Xavi/Busquets/Iniesta etc. who were less capable as false 9s.
There's no way in hell we sign one of the best attacking midfielders on the planet and play him so far out of position it's unreal, purely for nostalgic purposes. The same people moan about a lack of strength and defensive capabilities among our midfield, but yeah go sign a player who's defensive side of the game is pretty poor.
R-right. Proof that it's pure nostalgia? You won't be able to find any.
Again, very short memories in this forum. Fabregas wasn't always an attacking midfielder, we had the best midfield in the league with a central pairing of Flamini - Cesc, flanked by Hleb and Rosicky ffs. Had Cesc been 'poor defensively', this wouldn't have been possible. Yes, he's no Vieira in this regard, but not poor either.
You can also look at the examples of Gerrard and Arteta in this league, who have both made the move back in the last two years with no problems at all (although Arteta is now past it, but that's an age concern and not a positional concern per se)
Tir Na Nog said:1. Ok no one user said he was DEFINITELY coming back, but the fact is some think there's even the possibility of it happening this summer. Which is just beyond naive.
2. Aren't we talking about holding role. In 07-08 Flamini was defensive midfielder and he was more attack minded in a 4-4-2, we play a 4-2-3-1 with one box-to-box player and a holding midfielder. And Ramsey would definitely be the box-to-box player. CM and holding midfielder are nowhere near the same.
3. Flamini won't be a starter and Ramsey will.
4. I made that point because Wenger knows he's not a holding player.
5. He's had some but not much. Flamini even said himself not so long ago that Cesc "sometimes forgets to defend".
6. I was saying they played him as a false number 9 because he's an attacker, an attack minded player. :wink: That's why he of all people was chosen for that role because his best work is in and around the opposition area.
7. Look at the Cesc thread in the football forum.
8. Ok, he wasn't always an attacking midfielder,but he's always been mostly attack minded player. When Cesc broke into the team we would either play 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 with the two centre midfielders partnering where one was the attack minded out of the two and the other just sat and held their position. As we progressed Cesc became more and more attack minded and due to his assisting and goalscoring ability our team was fixed to get Cesc closer to the oppositions penalty area, there's a reason for that believe it or not.
What you're suggesting is that we bring back Cesc, partner him with Ramsey after 5/6 years of playing as one of the most attack minded players for his respective teams and sit alongside a box-to-box player.
It's not like Arteta or Gerrard jumped immediately from attacking midfielder to the deepest lying player in the midfield. Gerrard hasn't played as an attacking midfielder since the 09-10 season and it's been a slow progression of him paired with partners until he's become the holding midfielder that he is today. Same with Arteta he was already just primarily a CM when he was at Everton and for his first year he was paired with Song until he eventually progressed into the DM role.
And no, I can imagine you suggesting the "Ramsey and Cesc can share the defensive responsibilities" nonsense, that's fantasy stuff....not for the way we play anyways, we need a player who sits there and is capable of performing a job and can let someone like Rambo go forward and support the attack. Fabregas is not that player, and neither is Ramsey in case you suggest the other way round.
Wouterus said:If I could pick one player that is not completely unrealistic, it would probably be Reus. I was at the Dortmund-Mainz game a couple of weeks ago and he was just so many levels above anyone else on the pitch. Unreal movement, vision and technique.
Vibra said:Wouterus said:If I could pick one player that is not completely unrealistic, it would probably be Reus. I was at the Dortmund-Mainz game a couple of weeks ago and he was just so many levels above anyone else on the pitch. Unreal movement, vision and technique.
Losing Gotze, Lewandowski and him within a year would be absolutely brutal for Dortmund so for their sake I hope he stays, but if he does become available we just can't let someone of his talent go to a rival PL team
Rain Dance said:Rumors say Barcelona is ready to sell Sanchez. BUYYYYY!!!!!!
oh it said Cesc and Song(ugh) are also for sale
truth_hurts said:Pirlo transformed from a no. 10 to one of the best DLP in modern history. Cesc could do the same but Martinez or Witsel would be better fits. I am just in love with the idea of Cesc returning.