Arsenal v Bolton Wanderers, 11/09/10, ATVO, 3PM GMT

[fabo]

Our players should be able to interchange efficiently, we dont need to have a dedicated DM, these guys should be able to work out what to do between themselves

Well they should, but I'll wait until we play some quality sides before overrating our midfield. That's when Song usually come unstuck.

We don't need a dedicated DM but we also need midfielders who are responsible enough to carry out their jobs. We'll see.

 

[outlaw_member]

Don't understand this view on Song, why would he need to sit back at Home to Bolton while they are down to ten men? We need to clock up goals incase anyones happened to miss Chelsea racking up rugby scores for fun. Diabys always been an attacking-mid, it seems something of a moot point as far as Abou's concerned?

Song was making forward runs right throughout the first half, even when we were drawing the game.

The point was moreso referring to Song, rather then Diaby who was, like you said, an attacking midfielder.

 

[outlaw_member]

I don't think it's smart for the midfield to perform with such fluidly in reference to switching positions throughout the course of a game. I don't want to see Song, our most competent defensive midfielder switching positions with Cesc or Nasri. Whilst, I desire for Cesc to drop deep to collect the ball, I don't want to see it at the expense of one of the deeper CM's foraying forward, so to occupy the position that Cesc has vacated. For the simple reason, that if the ball was lost in the ensuing moments, Song or Diaby will be caught out of the game, and the most weakest defender, whether that is Wilshere, Nasri or Fabregas will end up having to protect the defence.

I can see the offensive benefits brought forth by the interchanging roles, but it would be suicidal defensively whenever it fails to come off. Like Captain highlighted about Flamini, which is an opinion I share, the Frenchman's forward runs, whilst being effective, had a mitigating effect on our defensive stability. Similarly, with the 'libero' style CB, there is a huge positive to a defensive player carrying the ball forward, as he creates a numerical advantage, especially when the game is tight. However, that is only a strategy which we should be employing in a last chance saloon scenario. Despite, being an offensive team, we have to maintain some semblance of rigidity. We can't have our CB's and DM's running forward, without expecting to suffer the entailing penalties.

 

[ricky1985]

The Flamini example doesn't apply here, that was as part of a 2-man midfield. Here, we're talking about a planned tactical ploy, where we line-up with 2 deeper lying central midfielders, with 1 slightly advanced and with marginally less responsibility.

For the most part that slightly advanced midfielder will be Fabregas, or a player like him, but the idea is that when an opportunity presents itself, instead of letting the moment pass without exploiting it, that the nearest player moves into that space/makes that run, and then then the other 2 midfielders adjust accordingly.

It has worked well up until now, but we've yet to really be fully tested - although Anfield was a pretty good test and we passed with flying colours, from a defensive standpoint.

The one thing you can't question is the shape we've kept up until now. You can question whether Song should be the one marauding forward, but at the end of the day if the other two - yesterday Fabregas and Wilshere - adjust accordingly and respect the formation, then there is no problem.

 

[outlaw_member]

I have no qualm with Diaby, Wilshere, or the player occupying the position next to the deepest midfielder making the forward run, infact it should be encouraged. But not Song, I'll have a heart attack if it's Song that's often taking up the responsibility.

 

[ricky1985]

I don't understand why? If it's a tactical ploy that is well thought out, well practised on the training pitch, and is not leaving us exposed through the middle - what's the problem?

He showed yesterday what a good footballer he is, so it's not like it's Claude (couldn't spot a forward pass if my life depended on it) Makelele moving forward. He's a capable footballer and can contribute. Cesc and Jack are no mugs, and whenever they needed to protect the defence they did exactly that. It's not like Song was roaming forward and it left Wilshere on his own and we got caught. Every time we were well covered, and the tactical set-up we put in place was carried out pretty seamlessly throughout; 2 men deeper, when we don't have the ball.

 

[AnthonyG]

I can see where you are coming from now, outlaw. That post of yours above, I pretty much agree with.

 

[mistaT]

I've just got on here from a weekend away (in which I caught the game) and figured there would actually be a thread about Song's play yesterday.

His first half was horrendous regardless of this 'two DM/deep CM' theory. While he may have grew in to the game, scored a pretty goal and ultimately helped us get the 3 points I still can't get over how poorly he was positioning himself and playing.

He's got a long way to go to be the player he was last year. Not sure if it's him still getting into shape/form or if its simply a change in tactics....regardless I'm concerned.

 

[otfgoon]

I don't understand why? If it's a tactical ploy that is well thought out, well practised on the training pitch, and is not leaving us exposed through the middle - what's the problem?

Because he has the misconception that no one else could possibly defend.

 

[flobaba]

I don't understand why? If it's a tactical ploy that is well thought out, well practised on the training pitch, and is not leaving us exposed through the middle - what's the problem?

Because he has the misconception that no one else could possibly defend.

Did you even read outlaw's post oftgoon? And if you did, is this really the smartest conclusion you could draw from it?

 

[outlaw_member]

I don't understand why? If it's a tactical ploy that is well thought out, well practised on the training pitch, and is not leaving us exposed through the middle - what's the problem?

He showed yesterday what a good footballer he is, so it's not like it's Claude (couldn't spot a forward pass if my life depended on it) Makelele moving forward. He's a capable footballer and can contribute. Cesc and Jack are no mugs, and whenever they needed to protect the defence they did exactly that. It's not like Song was roaming forward and it left Wilshere on his own and we got caught. Every time we were well covered, and the tactical set-up we put in place was carried out pretty seamlessly throughout; 2 men deeper, when we don't have the ball.

It's incredibly risky, unprecedented in the modern game and relies heavily on the discretion of offensive minded players. There were several instances against Bolton where the flaws of the setup were made prevalent. It can theoretically work if the team rarely ever loses possession, particularly in deep positions, and the offensive midfielder is tactically and defensively capable. But we were losing the ball in ridiculous areas, and Song was often running forward without Cesc covering him. Not to mention that Song was only mediocre IMO after being given a more prominent midfield role. One of the three midfielders has to be rigid, otherwise we'll end up paying for it.

 

[Rohit]

I love the fluidity across the midfield and the front line. It is fraught with risks which though can be mitigated simply by some common sense shown by the midfielders. If individual players can develop a good understanding and awareness of when to stay behind this fluidity can be extremely effective.

 

[Burnwinter]

One thing about Song is that his occasional swashbuckling forward runs are obviously part of what makes him tick as a footballer.

When he does arrive on the edge of the opposition area he does so with a notably impetuous frame of mind, and real intent.

I don't want to romanticise this trait too much. Previously I've criticised him for losing his cool and his discipline in defence a bit when matches weren't yet decided with half an hour to play.

But on the other hand, it's not something I would want to see entirely choked out of him. I'd rather see him given licence to go forward in that way when defensive cover is in place in the form of the "third man". If not, I don't think we'll be getting the best out of him anywhere on the pitch. Unlike some DMs, he doesn't have the temperament of a functionary.

 

[outlaw_member]

It's Denilson and Diaby that I'd prefer were the players running forward. Both of them have exceptional shooting technique and can score goals.

 

[Burnwinter]

Agreed that should be the tendency, just not an absolute principle.

 

[otfgoon]

Did you even read outlaw's post oftgoon? And if you did, is this really the smartest conclusion you could draw from it?

I did, and that's pretty much exactly what he said (though I may have slightly exaggerated his point). He thinks Song is our strongest defender and does not have faith in others to cover for him should he get caught up the pitch.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

One thing about Song is that his occasional swashbuckling forward runs are obviously part of what makes him tick as a footballer.

When he does arrive on the edge of the opposition area he does so with a notably impetuous frame of mind, and real intent.

This is usually not a problem in a well-functioning midfield though. Having dynamic players is an advantage as long as they're functioning as a team. It's like having fullbacks supporting the attack. Someone needs to cover for them when they do that, and it's usually the job of the holding midfielder(s). In the same way, Denilson or Diaby need to cover for Song when he makes a rush forward.

 

[Burnwinter]

Well, exactly Klaus.

But my point wasn't that our present formation together with a decent understanding between Song and second-most-deep-lying midfielder should allow Song to move forward from time to time.

It was more that if you tell him not to you might get a half-arsed version of Song all over the pitch, because I think it's pretty clear he gets some satisfaction from that part of his game.

 

[viper_001]

As long as Song knows his role, what harm can there be in his forward runs? Flamini was around the box quite often in his last season, and was part of what made him such a great midfielder.

 

[mistaT]

I just don't trust our other CM's to do the job he does. Be it once a game, or repeatedly in a games like Bolton, there's no indication anyone on the team can fulfill his role.

While he might add a little something going forward, we lose a lot more by him vacating his position and role. In a defensively fragile team like ours I'm not willing to accept that his contribution going forward ever outweighs the liability it places on our defense.

Our offense doesn't particularly need him to excel, our defense unfortunately does need him to function :bash