Arsenal v Bolton Wanderers, 11/09/10, ATVO, 3PM GMT

[Anzac]

As long as Song knows his role, what harm can there be in his forward runs? Flamini was around the box quite often in his last season, and was part of what made him such a great midfielder.

Which often left the CBs exposed as the FBs were also forward, and meaning that Cesc was expected to cover.

 

[Anzac]

Well, exactly Klaus.

But my point wasn't that our present formation together with a decent understanding between Song and second-most-deep-lying midfielder should allow Song to move forward from time to time.

It was more that if you tell him not to you might get a half-arsed version of Song all over the pitch, because I think it's pretty clear he gets some satisfaction from that part of his game.

So if he can't/doesn't like it he can put in a transfer request & leave. I'm sick to death of the idea of compromising the team for the sake of any individual - it's 'bad' enough that we've done so re Cesc & the development project.

 

[Anzac]

I just don't trust our other CM's to do the job he does. Be it once a game, or repeatedly in a games like Bolton, there's no indication anyone on the team can fulfill his role.

While he might add a little something going forward, we lose a lot more by him vacating his position and role. In a defensively fragile team like ours I'm not willing to accept that his contribution going forward ever outweighs the liability it places on our defense.

Our offense doesn't particularly need him to excel, our defense unfortunately does need him to function :bash

This - and I very much doubt that Song can add anything to our attack that 7 other players are unable to do so.

 

[Anzac]

One thing about Song is that his occasional swashbuckling forward runs are obviously part of what makes him tick as a footballer.

When he does arrive on the edge of the opposition area he does so with a notably impetuous frame of mind, and real intent.

This is usually not a problem in a well-functioning midfield though. Having dynamic players is an advantage as long as they're functioning as a team. It's like having fullbacks supporting the attack. Someone needs to cover for them when they do that, and it's usually the job of the holding midfielder(s). In the same way, Denilson or Diaby need to cover for Song when he makes a rush forward.

Agreed - and it's also about being smart in regards to the midfield balance & chosing when/if to make such runs = just because you can doesn't mean you should. What is the gain from making a forward run ahead of the ball if your 'cover' is someone like Wilshere who is more akin to an AM type, let alone his age etc?

Have we forgotten that we conceeded goals v CFC & ManU on the counter when Song joined the attack & we turned over possession around the opposition area? Whilst the likes of Diaby/Denilson 'should' have been providing cover, it also represents a poor decision to make the run forward in the first instance.

 

[Anzac]

The video at the bottom of the page in this link shows the clear structure I'm talking about. It's showing how we pressed the ball against Liverpool, and you can clearly see the consistent shape and discipline with which we go about closing them down.

There's also this link which has a video which shows how the constant rotation of each player in each position, within that set structure, pulls our opponents (in this case Blackburn) all over the place. (It's the first video on the page. The second video shows how we dealt with Blackburn's aerial bombardment and is also well worth watching).

This analysis focuses on the Blackpool game, and again it clearly shows that even against a lesser team, we maintained the same structure and formation, and the video shows specifically how staying in shape enabled us to win the ball back consistently.

I have to say we must have done a hell of a lot of hard-work during the summer, because we've really got to grips with this system quickly. It just seems to fit well with what we're trying to do. We don't seem anywhere near as vulnerable through our spine, and that's without inhibiting the forward movement of the players - it just seems that forward movement is now done with more cohesion and intelligence, and crucially within a framework that doesn't leave us painfully exposed whenever we lose the ball.

Although I admit it is still yet to be fully tested, but the early signs are very good.

Nice analysis & I'll add this blog to my favorites to keep an eye on it. Having said that this shows me what I inherantly dislike about this system, even though I admit that it is an improvement over last season without the ball thus far.

In the analysis v LFC it executes very much like a 4222 with the AM going forward to join the CF to press the CBs. The other thing that was obvious to me is that we still press individually 1v1, which means we are still succeptable to being beaten in such a challenge. I'd much rather see us look to emulate the Barca style of swarming the ball carrier with 3 or more players to not only stop their progress, but to also cut off the passing options & force an error resulting in a turn-over.

In the 2nd analysis v Rovers the diagram of our average positions confirms for me my greatest fear/dislike of our midfield = Cesc operating as an AMC/SS & the 2 so called holding CMs playing VERY narrow in the middle of the park & offering no width/support to the flanks. This means that any cover for the FBs MUST come from the WFs, which IMO detracts from what should be their primary role.

The end result IMO is that our patterns place the priority/emphasis on the midfield roles & that of Cesc in particular regardless of attack/defensive cover, and that we continue to emphasise our attack towards the front of the opposition area.

IMO we are still very much a 4231 rather than the 4213 alluded to earlier.

 

[TomasCR]

There is nobody else out there that could make that pass Rosicky did just at the start of the game, a few goals to get his confidence back and he's back.

 

[Don Pacifico]

There is nobody else out there that could make that pass Rosicky did just at the start of the game, a few goals to get his confidence back and he's back.

You don't really believe that, do you Tomas?

I think Rosicky has been brilliant so far and he was probably our best player during pre-season along with Nasri but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

[TomasCR]

I really do Don, talking about making passes with the outside of his foot, I don't think there are many players who could seriously do that. While I'm not getting ahead of myself, I don't think he was anywere close to his today's form anytime last season, which is at the very least good to know.

 

[Don Pacifico]

Definitely agree with the latter part of what you say. I hoped he could retain his form and pre-season gave me reason to be optimistic. If he can stay fit, he'll be a really useful player for us this season.

 

[ricky1985]

How often do you see an outside of the foot pass like that played, Don?

Out of curiosity, how do you feel about Fabregas when you see him play like he did Saturday? It's games like that, where Cesc is beyond good, that drives the vehement opposition you come across when others disagree with your assertion that we have a number of players who can do what Cesc does (Nasri in particular), and the only thing that really stops them is that they don't play in his position or have as much of the ball - if Nasri played like that we'd have threads being started to honour him.

 

[Captain]

Rosicky was better and equally good in his passing. Kind of went unnoticed...

The central midfield were pretty shocking at times on saturday.

 

[Don Pacifico]

Would agree with Capi actually Ricky. I still think if Nasri got regular games in Cesc's role, that we'd get similar output. My issue was also that has his limitations as a player and that some of the things he isn't as capable at, Nasri is. It is of course all slightly speculative at this point but whilst I agree that Cesc was effortlessly brilliant on Saturday, I still think we could accommodate his loss.

Re: the outside of the foot pass

Agree that you don't see it too often but that's perhaps because it's quite a risky technique although it's one Rosicky seems quite fond of of late.

Don't see why Nasri/Ramsey/Fabregas/Wilshere wouldn't be able to pull it off. From my own experience of playing football, my passing with the outside of my foot isn't significantly worse than with the inside.

 

[Clrnc]

Rosicky have been doing it ever since he was at Dortmund to be honest. Whenever he played on the left though, he will use that to cross. To be honest its quite hard to cross with the outside accurately. I remember seeing him try to shoot with that as well which is quite inaccurate. That can only mean one thing which is his weaker foot is essentially useless.

Seldom see people use that skill though, other than maybe Quaresma. Seen Cesc tried to execute it too, the only one in our squad to copy Rosicky

 

[Lukazan]

Rosicky is constantly at it with the outside of his right foot, simply because he doesn't have a left.

 

[entropy13]

Rosicky is constantly at it with the outside of his right foot, simply because he doesn't have a left.

2 of his 7 goals in his first season here were scored using his left. I didn't check the other seasons though since I need sleep lol

 

[TomasCR]

Don't see why Nasri/Ramsey/Fabregas/Wilshere wouldn't be able to pull it off. From my own experience of playing football, my passing with the outside of my foot isn't significantly worse than with the inside.

. I mean, no ****ing way!

 

[GaelForce22]

Would agree with Capi actually Ricky. I still think if Nasri got regular games in Cesc's role, that we'd get similar output. My issue was also that has his limitations as a player and that some of the things he isn't as capable at, Nasri is. It is of course all slightly speculative at this point but whilst I agree that Cesc was effortlessly brilliant on Saturday, I still think we could accommodate his loss.

Still not sure why you think this - Nasri's never looked like a particularly creative or inventive passer since he arrived here. Can you really see him getting 20+ assists every season like Cesc does?

 

[AshburtonGhost]

Nasri, on paper at least, has the attributes to be a pretty effective wide forward IMO.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Nasri has enough talent to end up one of the best players in Europe in whatever position he eventually settles for. He does not, however, have enough in his locker to end up as the best player of his generation and one of the all-time greats. That's where he differs from Fabregas in my opinion.

 

[Captain]

The best player of Cesc's generation is ripping up the right wing at his beloved Barcelona.