Arsenal v Man U CL 2nd Leg May 05, 2009, 19:45

[Stevo the Villan]

I have no opinion on Wenger. As I said I didn't see the game so can't comment. Just thought I'd give my comiserations.

 

[marco]

over 180 minutes we deserved to be taught a lesson and were taught one.
the last 2 months we have been pappering over every crack going but really who have we beaten?
we were ****e in rome fluking a penalty shootout and villareal are a poor team then all those teams we beat in league are very average...

the 2 games that matter v man utd we didnt turn up on both occasions wenger gets his tactics wrong.
last night showed the inexperience of the team.they had the crows massively behind them for first tne then 2 stupid errors by gibbs and almunia..
yep almunia kept us in it last week but a top class goalkeeper keeps you in games week in week out and almunia always likes to chuck one in for the mancs at home

i wish walcott was danish or french cos then you would all see quite how average he really is so one dimensional//

we deserved to go out and rightly did
man utd third was fantastic..
atmos in first 9 minutes was fantastic best i have ever heard at a game at home

 

[beanz]

Ok, cheers Stevo. But I'd caution you about giving an opinion about Wenger, we're a little pissed off right now, his head is on the block now and its for us to swing the axe or not.

Biggus dude, I can tell you're a bit upset (I'm sensitive to these things),
it might be a bit crass to say this, but what we're feeling is like a bereavment, going through the various stages, from denial, anger, accusation & grief.
We need to blame someone for our loss, lash out in our anger & pain at anyone nearby.
Perhaps it is time for Arsène to go, but I doubt that any amount of critisism, or metaphoric axe swinging from the fans, will force the board to show him the door.
I was cursing him & everyone else for that matter last night, (I even momentarily thought about discarding my LUCKY Charlie George shirt) but in the cold light of day, the question we should all be asking is, will Stan Kroenke be taking over soon ?

 

[Galahad]

Hands up to ManU, they are deserved winners of this fixture. Arsenal didnt turn up for the first leg and disappeared right again after 8 minutes of the second leg. Well 10 minutes, tops. Ref was dire but us losing had nothign to do with him. Poor Darren Fletcher tho, this lad played superb, was frequently fouled AND got send off for winning the ball...

I am curious to see what will happen next season...

 

[Anzac]

The question regarding if got the ball or not is irrelevant in regards to the foul, it being inside the area & thus a penalty, and being the last defender = red card.

The questions are in regard to whether or not Cesc was in a goal scoring position & whether or not he was placed in physical danger or disadvantage by the contact - nothing to do with the tackling player getting the ball at any time or if there was any intent to take the player out.

 

[Biggus]

Ok, cheers Stevo. But I'd caution you about giving an opinion about Wenger, we're a little pissed off right now, his head is on the block now and its for us to swing the axe or not.

Biggus dude, I can tell you're a bit upset (I'm sensitive to these things),
it might be a bit crass to say this, but what we're feeling is like a bereavment, going through the various stages, from denial, anger, accusation & grief.
We need to blame someone for our loss, lash out in our anger & pain at anyone nearby.
Perhaps it is time for Arsène to go, but I doubt that any amount of critisism, or metaphoric axe swinging from the fans, will force the board to show him the door.
I was cursing him & everyone else for that matter last night, (I even momentarily thought about discarding my LUCKY Charlie George shirt) but in the cold light of day, the question we should all be asking is, will Stan Kroenke be taking over soon ?

Not me Beanz I've moved through the stages quicker as I (and some others) saw the writing on the wall some time ago. I can pinpoint my epiphany to when Wenger made Gallas captain and put Gilberto out in the cold- it struck me like a ton of bricks- my God he doesn't know what he's doing! he's appointed a whinging **** mercenary over a club stalwart......

Kroenke could be some light at the end of the tunnel- Here's a man whose business is making money from sporting teams, and the way to make money is have a winning team- not a allow nutty professor such as Wenger- experiment with your assets.

 

[ricky1985]

I just hope people here don't make the mistake of thinking we are worse than we are. I was gutted last summer, really, really angry because I knew that we had a team capable of achieving great things, but that the two or 3 gaping holes were completely undermining the quality in the rest of the team.

Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy, Fabregas, Arshavin, Rosicky, Van Persie (I'd still sell him because he doesn't fit our style), Eduardo, are all top class and able to compete at any level of football, anywhere.

The problem arises because the balance of the team isn't right, Gallas and Toure for example, and the biggest problem by a million miles is our midfield. It is the area of the pitch that makes our team work, offensively and defensively, and it's completely wrong from top to bottom.

All I'm saying is don't doubt just how good some of our players are, they are some of the very best in the world, they simply have no chance of succedding with the glaring deficiencies in key areas of the team.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

In the space of 3 minutes we gave two very cheap goals. That was the end of it. No team would come out of that hole against a well organized ManU defense and midfield. I dont feel any shame to yesterday's loss. Once a team is 2-0 and 3-0 on aggregate, you would need miracles to overcome that. We played a descent game, and had the score been 0-0 with the way we were playing the game could have still gone either way. Fact is by conceeding 2 goals we were too deep in a hole. No amount of tactic guruness, mental toughness, flaminization, experience, could overcome that. This media blowout is just typical. Fact is once a team is 2-0 away, they will have the upper hand in that game. They will have more space to play on, they will be more dangerous, they will look a better team. A reversal would only come if they make a mistake and let you back in the game. It didnt happen so end of story.

Lets take it like grown men and move on. They deserved to go through. A difference in class, that i disagree. Once 2-0 up, the game was very different and players like Ronaldo become even much more dangerous. There was only one way after that..either we try overcome the deficit or get hit harder from their counters. Its how football goes and no need for deeper analysis.

We started well, and an early goal would have made a difference. In the CL it really comes down to that.

 

[Biggus]

In the space of 3 minutes we gave two very cheap goals. That was the end of it. No team would come out of that hole against a well organized ManU defense and midfield. I dont feel any shame to yesterday's loss.

Here we go the excuse culture again.......

Lets take it like grown men and move on. They deserved to go through. A difference in class, that i disagree. Once 2-0 up, the game was very different and players like Ronaldo become even much more dangerous. There was only one way after that..either we try overcome the deficit or get hit harder from their counters. Its how football goes and no need for deeper analysis.

Blah blah no reason to explain why we failed yet again.

We started well, and an early goal would have made a difference. In the CL it really comes down to that.

Everything's okay- lets carry on as if nothing ever happened- move along there nothing to see.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

In the space of 3 minutes we gave two very cheap goals. That was the end of it. No team would come out of that hole against a well organized ManU defense and midfield. I dont feel any shame to yesterday's loss.

Here we go the excuse culture again.......

How is that an excuse? Do you think it really was possible to get out of that 2-0 hole? I am simply stating we were undone yesterday by our mistakes more than anything else.

Lets take it like grown men and move on. They deserved to go through. A difference in class, that i disagree. Once 2-0 up, the game was very different and players like Ronaldo become even much more dangerous. There was only one way after that..either we try overcome the deficit or get hit harder from their counters. Its how football goes and no need for deeper analysis.

Blah blah no reason to explain why we failed yet again.

We started well, and an early goal would have made a difference. In the CL it really comes down to that.

Everything's okay- lets carry on as if nothing ever happened- move along there nothing to see.

Why is it that whenever one trys to balance the doomsayers they are accused of stating that everything is perfect? It hurts losing yesterday and yes we still have a long way to go to be a force to reckon with. But its not as bad as most of you lot make it to be. We were in the Semis for fkc* sake and even you moaners prior to the kick off had some f*kng hope that we might overcome the first leg deficit and go through. That hope was surely not based on what you just finished smokin. Somehows, you must have a little belief in you that the team had the potential to pull it off. You must have had the belief that we deserved to be in the Semis out of Merit and our first EPL win against the Mancs was not based on luck.

 

[Cruisio]

I cant really agree with what you said there Mbaki. The fact of the matter is we got taken the pi** out of by Man Utd. They completely out played us in pretty much every department, at home, the gulf in ability was huge.

Yes, going down to 2-0 after 10 minutes doesnt make the game any easier to play but what annoyed me the most was how we stuck to the same slowed passing game as before. Nobody wanted to get the ball forward quickly or make a run off the ball despite the fact that we needed 4 goals and then 5 goals. It was shocking to watch. I've got to agree with Biggus, if we had gotten the ball into the box quicker than we atleast would have had more of a chance to score, but no, we still wanted to pass it around despite the fact Utd were just letting us have it down the wings knowing we werent going to create anythin from wide. The only one that looked like he was remotely desperate to get a goal was Nasri.

So no matter how much we take it like men and move on from this particular result, that doesnt take away the distance of quality between us and our main rivals

 

[Gurgen]

We collapsed mentally. There is a gulf in quality but it's not as big as yesterday's game made it out to be.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

In the space of 3 minutes we gave two very cheap goals. That was the end of it. No team would come out of that hole against a well organized ManU defense and midfield. I dont feel any shame to yesterday's loss.

Here we go the excuse culture again.......

How is that an excuse? Do you think it really was possible to get out of that 2-0 hole? I am simply stating we were undone yesterday by our mistakes more than anything else.

Everything's okay- lets carry on as if nothing ever happened- move along there nothing to see.

Why is it that whenever one trys to balance the doomsayers they are accused of stating that everything is perfect? It hurts losing yesterday and yes we still have a long way to go to be a force to reckon with. But its not as bad as most of you lot make it to be. We were in the Semis for fkc* sake and even you moaners prior to the kick off had some f*kng hope that we might overcome the first leg deficit and go through. That hope was surely not based on what you just finished smokin. Somehows, you must have a little belief in you that the team had the potential to pull it off. You must have had the belief that we deserved to be in the Semis out of Merit and our first EPL win against the Mancs was not based on luck.

 

[Cruisio]

We collapsed mentally. There is a gulf in quality but it's not as big as yesterday's game made it out to be.

Yet theres still a gulf which needs to be sorted out. I want players with a stronger mentality to them to just completely collapse after 10 minutes. Which is what we did, because we didnt even look up for a fight after that. I hate to say this but if that Liverpool squad, who in terms of technical ability are worse than us, can make some of the comebacks they have made recently through sheer effort and determination, then it shouldnt be too much to ask of our players to not be completely destroyed when theres still 80 minutes to play

 

[asajoseph]

It wasn't just 'quality' last night - we were out-coached, and out-managed as well.

There are a lot of reasons that we were so thoroughly outclassed, and it will take a lot more than the transfer market to close that gap.

However, we weren't 3-0 down in the tie within 15 minutes because of chance - we gave it away, made stupid mistakes, and ultimately the better team took advantages of the chances they were creating, and completely stifled our ability to create any of our own.

 

[Biggus]

We were in the Semis for fkc* sake and even you moaners prior to the kick off had some f*kng hope that we might overcome the first leg deficit and go through. That hope was surely not based on what you just finished smokin. Somehows, you must have a little belief in you that the team had the potential to pull it off. You must have had the belief that we deserved to be in the Semis out of Merit and our first EPL win against the Mancs was not based on luck.

I can only speak for myself Mbaki, but of course I hoped we could win, what else could I do? Arsenal are my team and while every logical cell in my brain said: Wengers f**ked us- we have no chance.....My heart said: It's a funny old game in 40 years you've seen a lot stranger happen.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

We were in the Semis for fkc* sake and even you moaners prior to the kick off had some f*kng hope that we might overcome the first leg deficit and go through. That hope was surely not based on what you just finished smokin. Somehows, you must have a little belief in you that the team had the potential to pull it off. You must have had the belief that we deserved to be in the Semis out of Merit and our first EPL win against the Mancs was not based on luck.

I can only speak for myself Mbaki, but of course I hoped we could win, what else could I do? Arsenal are my team and while every logical cell in my brain said: Wengers f**ked us- we have no chance.....My heart said: It's a funny old game in 40 years you've seen a lot stranger happen.

Well, i would like to believe there was more who felt we could win not just because of their heart. I was one of them and there were plenty out here. Actually anyone who blames Wenger for his lack of tactical awareness regarding ystdays game is indirectly acknowledging that if Wenger had listened to him/her..then we might have won it. Player to player we are not to be compared to ManU. But the last time we could actually compare ourselvers player to player with ManU was during the invincibles. And that team did take a lot of time to build and get to where it was. Prior to that, it was another team taht was getting results mostly from team work then individual skills.

Our type of football hasnt changed for sometime. Its possession based football. It never looks very convincing when you are down 2-0 because it seems like there is no urgency. But it works very well when you have a lead. However this this is not a switch that you turn on and off. We all watched Barca/Chelsaa first leg. Then watch Barca/Madrid especially after they went up. There is no perfect tactic of playing this game. Each tactic can be exposed especially when those you play against take a lead.

Manure for all its worth, are good at the fast paced games and againts a good team that can keep possession and not make mistakes, they do get found out. Its not just an issue of choice, its what you are strong at and that depends on the players you have.

Lets take it. This was a hard one to take. And we all did not expect to be out so quick playing at home. But lets not be blinded by hurt and shoot at everyone. We found ourselves our of the tie after 12 minutes due to the mistakes we made. Valid human mistakes. Anything after the 13th minute is irrelevant.

 

[hesham]

Arsenal fan hangs himself in Kenya

:shock:

 

[henry79]

Credit to Ferguson.

By playing Anderson, Carrick, and Fletcher in the middle he forced us out wide where he knows we are f****g useless.

This forced our fullbacks to push up to try and create something leaving Ronaldo, Rooney and Park all the space in the world to hurt us and oh boy did they do that.

That's the main reason why we lost.

agree, before the game people were going on about how we beat them earlier in the season they are forgetting that manu played 442 we controlled the midfield and manunited couldnt do anything about it atleast ferguson learned his lesson, you cant say the same about wenger

 

[Nela]

Oh come one. Everyone on here was begging for 4-4-2 and sharpended their knives for if Wenger dared play anything else with any other players than the ones that played. Fans need to learn their lesson just as much as Wenger.