Arsenal v West Ham. EPL Sat Jan 31st 2009 15:00

[arsenalfc0719]

I'd like to clarify that my issue with Nasri is that isntead of trying to make things happen, trying to put in a dangerous pass, or try to penetrate, he takes the eassiest way out. He becomes a passenger in games. And thats exactly what we don't need him to be doing. Disgusting may be over the line, but he was poor. He didn't do his job. Good players make things happen, Nasri isn't doing that.

 

[Macho]

All this talk of team spirit that Arsène spouts is utter bollocks.

There were numerous occasions today where Nik could've passed the ball to Ade when he was clearly in a better position but he didn't, instead choosing to go it alone and end up getting tackled.

c**t.

Well thats one of the reasons why Gallas was stripped of captaincy. Wenger is now free to say whatever he likes.

I dunno what peole expect him to do though, as if he should come out and say "yes its true the players don't get on a little bit you know"

 

[outlaw_member]

fabregas did make runs in behind the back four. flamini as well. diaby and denilson made no such attempts today. not even once. how anyone can even begin to try and defend that is beyond me.

they were s**t. as usual. same problems as always. no sense of urgency. too static. lack of movement off the ball. not enough pace on the ball.

Your criticising Diaby and Denilson for not doing something, they shouldn't have to do in the first place. Movement, pace and urgency, is supposed to come from the attacking players.(Bendtner, Vela, Adebayor, Nasri) Both Diaby and Denilson were playing as defensive box-to-box midfielders, so it's not their job to provide that. Cesc plays with far more freedom, and has a different role from the aforementioned two, so he is supposed to provide some of that.

 

[baccy_man]

when are we going to stop making ten to twenty passes around the penalty area and take shots as soon as we get their, all this passing around the box just gives the defenders time to get back around their own box and block us out, it is infuriating to see our strikers making passes instead of taking shots,

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

Kel i can't agree. our 2004 side was a possession side, it's just that the squad was also full of pace and quality so it looked like we were a counter attacking side. there were many games in 2004 campaign where we just kept possession of the ball and passed teams to death.

personally i think there is a hate campaign going on against diaby, denilson and eboue so matter what they do people always find fault.

read baccy's post above, we've been saying that stuff about arsenal since 98

 

[sabret00the]

Today's lesson is learned. Just like we couldn't afford to rest Cesc, we can't afford to rest Robin.

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

Today's lesson is learned. Just like we couldn't afford to rest Cesc, we can't afford to rest Robin.

it's funny you say that, because i kind of agree, but i have to say i don't recall RvP playing so well with Cesc in the side. i can't remember the last time both had a good game together.

 

[Philo Bedo]

Unfortunatly, Cese is out for a long time and its painfully obvious that we have zero creativity without him.

 

[ricky1985]

I'm completely with Kel on this one.

Diaby and Denilson did an ok, alright, nothing special job today. To argue that we dominated the game because of Diaby and Denilson is just not true. West Ham put 9 men behind the ball, and left Carlton Cole up on his own. Whenever they won the ball, they either passed around ridiculously along the back line, inevitably it went back to the keeper, who smashed it upfield, or they skipped the first part of playing stupid, unambitious square passes, and simply lumped aimless balls up to Carlotn Cole, Toure and Gallas simply ate them for breakfast.

Offesnively, what exactly did Denilson and Diaby do well? Ok, so Diaby made three or four fantastic runs after clever pieces of skill to beat his marker, but what actually came of it? He, 9 times out of 10, either gave the ball away, or played a nothing pass that lost all the momentum he had himself created.
Denilson covered ground well, but offesnively I can't remember one telling pass, incisive run, or even one Diaby-esque dribble (he simply doesn't have that kind of ability).

Players like Nasri, Bendtner and Vela need more than just the fullback to work off when they get into good positions on the flanks. Denislon and Diaby offer little to nothing in the way of dynamism, and like I said Diaby usually cancels out anything positive he does with his next pass, shot or touch.

The lack of attacking support from the middle is killing us, it really is. Do you think Hleb or Rosicky would have been able to excel if they had Denilson and Diaby to link with? No way, it's not possible. The creative passing, and forward movement from the centre midfielders is fundemental to creating chances. Unless you want to just get the ball out wide and whip it in, like Nasri did probably 8 times today, even then Diaby and Denilson were nowhere to be seen in the middle, even though they were playing against a team that was offering no attacking threat whatsoever.

I've seen people using our 1-0 loss to West Ham a couple of seasons ago as proof we had the same problems then, but that is complete rubbish. When we lost to them last time, we lost to Robert Green, he was absolutely incredible. He must have made 10 great saves that day.

How many great saves did the Hammers keeper have to make today?

I'll tell you, Arshavin will struggle like hell if a central midfielder of similar quality doesn't follow him through the door.

 

[Philo Bedo]

What's the chances of us actually signing two players though?

 

[thegame24]

Hopefully one is on the sly

 

[ricky1985]

fabregas did make runs in behind the back four. flamini as well. diaby and denilson made no such attempts today. not even once. how anyone can even begin to try and defend that is beyond me.

they were s**t. as usual. same problems as always. no sense of urgency. too static. lack of movement off the ball. not enough pace on the ball.

Your criticising Diaby and Denilson for not doing something, they shouldn't have to do in the first place. Movement, pace and urgency, is supposed to come from the attacking players.(Bendtner, Vela, Adebayor, Nasri) Both Diaby and Denilson were playing as defensive box-to-box midfielders, so it's not their job to provide that. Cesc plays with far more freedom, and has a different role from the aforementioned two, so he is supposed to provide some of that.

Ok, so if Nasri, Adebayor , Bendtner and Vela are supposed to provide the 'movement, pace and urgency', who is supposed the find them in the good positions their 'movement, pace and urgency' has got them into? Diaby and Denilson?

If it isn't them, then what is their jobs?

Do they simply sit in the middle of the midfield, closing players down on the rare occasion West Ham make a foray forward?

What are they supposed to be providing to the team?

 

[outlaw_member]

Ricky and Kel are looking at this the wrong way. Your criticising the team, by using the yardstick of our full strength team. Injuries to key players meant that, we had to change our setup in order to suit our personel, whilst ironing out any weaknesses in the team.

We suffered defensively for a large part of the season, and with Cesc ruled out. We deployed a twin defensive box-to-box partnership. The Cesc-Flamini midfield, had the Spaniard as the attacking box-to-box, and Frenchman as the defensive box-to-box. Under that setup, Cesc is required to create chances and attack.

Our current system has no attacking box-to-box midfielder, therefore neither are required to create chances. A defensive box-to-box midfielders job is to harry, and keep the ball moving, something Flamini did last season, and Diaby/Denilson/Song are attempting this year. That role does not require any attacking impetus, and the reason we use two instead of the one, is because we were far too porous earlier in the season. It's no miracle, that we've become more solid in Cesc's absence.

Now, the problem is that there is added attacking pressure on the wide players and strikers, to create and score. Unfortunately, they don't have the capabilities, and that is where we are failing. Adebayor relies heavily on Cesc, RVP has thrived, and Nasri alone cannot handle the responsibility.

That isn't to say that Diaby and Denilson cannot do a better job, because they certainly can.

 

[Rohit]

@Ricky, thanks for that post rather than simply calling players names and calling them ****.

You may be right in a way but it doesn't mean Diaby and Denilson had poor games. Different midfielders have different qualities just like Walcott and Hleb were different or just like Walcott and Nasri are different. Just because a pair doesn't offer penetration it doesn't mean they had **** games and are **** players, it simply means that somewhere our balance is wrong. Did Vieira and Gilberto offer us penetration from the center of midfield? Well i am not comparing players and if we have now adopted a differnt style of football that doesn't suit players like Diaby and Denilson who in their own right had great games today then they shouldn't be part of the squad and we are not balanced then.

 

[thegame24]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/football/Injured-Diaby-39does-not-look.4934246.jp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/footb ... 4934246.jp</a>

You lot will love this.

Since diaby might be ****ed hopefully we get more players

 

[Rohit]

Ok, so if Nasri, Adebayor , Bendtner and Vela are supposed to provide the 'movement, pace and urgency', who is supposed the find them in the good positions their 'movement, pace and urgency' has got them into? Diaby and Denilson?

If it isn't them, then what is their jobs?

Do they simply sit in the middle of the midfield, closing players down on the rare occasion West Ham make a foray forward?

What are they supposed to be providing to the team?

Did you notice West Ham didn't have a sniff today. And you are suffering from partial amnesia and chose to remember only what you want if you believe that West Ham only hoofed up the ball. They gave it a shot playing through the middle but were closed now and dominated by our central midfield pair.

It's hilarious how we struggled even with Fabregas in the side and then it was DEnilson and other players around him that were ****. Today when DEnilson and Diaby have put in good performances it's still the central midfield that is ****. Hats off

 

[thegame24]

Denilson and diaby were not good today, if west ham had some balls they would have over run us.

 

[Kain]

outlaw are you saying that we deployed two defensive midfielders today at home, against West Ham who played a 9-man defence in a must win game?

 

[ricky1985]

Ok, so if Nasri, Adebayor , Bendtner and Vela are supposed to provide the 'movement, pace and urgency', who is supposed the find them in the good positions their 'movement, pace and urgency' has got them into? Diaby and Denilson?

If it isn't them, then what is their jobs?

Do they simply sit in the middle of the midfield, closing players down on the rare occasion West Ham make a foray forward?

What are they supposed to be providing to the team?

Did you notice West Ham didn't have a sniff today. And you are suffering from partial amnesia and chose to remember only what you want if you believe that West Ham only hoofed up the ball. They gave it a shot playing through the middle but were closed now and dominated by our central midfield pair.

It's hilarious how we struggled even with Fabregas in the side and then it was DEnilson and other players around him that were s**t. Today when DEnilson and Diaby have put in good performances it's still the central midfield that is s**t. Hats off

Diaby and Denilson were ok today. They certainly weren't poor, but where is it going wrong then? Nasri looked electric and dangerous whenever he got the ball in a little bit of space and in a good position. Bendtner (who moved out to the right wing) also looked dangerous.

Why aren't we creating chances if our two central midfielders are having 'great games', do you see my point?

 

[outlaw_member]

outlaw are you saying that we deployed two defensive midfielders today at home, against West Ham who played a 9-man defence in a must win game?

Not defensive midfielders, but they played as defensive box-to-box midfielders.