Arsenal v West Ham. EPL Sat Jan 31st 2009 15:00

[arsenalfc0719]

They'll be back in a couple of months? A couple of months may be too late Wenger.

Anyways, I'm off to pack up my stuff and enjoy my weekend. And do exactly what Alonso suggested. I can't be bothered by this **** right now.

 

[Rohit]

We have scored 38 goals on 24 games. Man Utd have 40 in 23. That after they put 5 past West Brom on Tuesday night. Teams have struggled to score this season but Man Utd are a classy side isn't it. It is genuinely difficult to score against teams that park the bus irrespective of the attacking potential. man Utd have ground out result after result, they have enough number of 1-0's. The difference is they have conceeded 10 in 23 and we have conceeded 25 in 24 of which a few have been last gasp equalizers. It's jusy so disappointing and then i see the thread "are you falling out of love with Arsenal" pop up- ****ing no ...... it hurts as much ....... ****ing ****

We have issues but really they are all over the pitch, the issue is collective, we could do with a bit more quality but it isn't 'x', 'y', 'z' players are ****

When chances are hard to come by we need to take whatever we get and Adebayor has been guilty of missing a few.

 

[Clrnc]

LOL AT WENGER, saying the exact same thing we predicted

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

We have scored 38 goals on 24 games. Man Utd have 40 in 23. That after they put 5 past West Brom on Tuesday night. Teams have struggled to score this season but Man Utd are a classy side isn't it. It is genuinely difficult to score against teams that park the bus irrespective of the attacking potential. man Utd have ground out result after result, they have enough number of 1-0's. The difference is they have conceeded 10 in 23 and we have conceeded 25 in 24 of which a few have been last gasp equalizers. It's jusy so disappointing and then i see the thread "are you falling out of love with Arsenal" pop up- f****g no ...... it hurts as much ....... f****g s**t

We have issues but really they are all over the pitch, the issue is collective, we could do with a bit more quality but it isn't 'x', 'y', 'z' players are s**t

When chances are hard to come by we need to take whatever we get and Adebayor has been guilty of missing a few.

Thank you ...

 

[Anzac]

We have scored 38 goals on 24 games. Man Utd have 40 in 23. That after they put 5 past West Brom on Tuesday night. Teams have struggled to score this season but Man Utd are a classy side isn't it. It is genuinely difficult to score against teams that park the bus irrespective of the attacking potential. man Utd have ground out result after result, they have enough number of 1-0's. The difference is they have conceeded 10 in 23 and we have conceeded 25 in 24 of which a few have been last gasp equalizers. It's jusy so disappointing and then i see the thread "are you falling out of love with Arsenal" pop up- f****g no ...... it hurts as much ....... f****g s**t

We have issues but really they are all over the pitch, the issue is collective, we could do with a bit more quality but it isn't 'x', 'y', 'z' players are s**t

When chances are hard to come by we need to take whatever we get and Adebayor has been guilty of missing a few.

Thank you ...

Blame the lack of sleep but I don't get the point??????
Are we referring to our goal scoring / defending & what has either got to do with a falling out of love with the club thread?
As for the issues across the pitch - some / most of us here acknowledge that. As for the players being sh*t - again many of us prefer to say they are not AFC starting quality.
Overall if we are not to be having a go at the players (if it's not their fault etc), then that only leaves the Manager to target re formation / selections / style / tactics etc.


and Eboue IS just sh*t................ :wink:

 

[Biggus]

Disappointed with the result rather than the performance to be honest.

West Ham absolutely refused to play today and it was one of the most negative performances I've ever witnessed at the Emirates. They had so many bodies behind the ball it was untrue. So much for Zola playing beautiful football. I guess he had to do what he had to do.

Nevertheless, we created enough chances to win it, notwithstanding the pathetic movement in the final third,with Ade the biggest culprit.

Frustrated but we must soldier on. If the injury to Diaby is serious, Wenger might want to reconsider the decision not to sign another CM.

I agree with everything General but one thing- you won't be surprised what.
Good performance- bad result, theres nothing in the rules to prohibit 10 men behind the ball we created enough chances to win it, and only had to take 1 of them.

Wenger is the biggest culprit. I mean WTF is he keeping RvP nice and safe and snug and warm for :?: I struggle to comprehend his logic.
It's like a man dying of thirst not wanting to drink his water but keep it for later. We must win the game first before thinking about resting players....... If we don't start winning games soon There won't be any later. :roll:

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Overall if we are not to be having a go at the players (if it's not their fault etc), then that only leaves the Manager to target re formation / selections / style / tactics etc.

I guess at the end of the day it has to be someones fault. Well in that case the options are plenty u can pick on any. I can understand those *****i about our defense leaking goals but making so much noise about "lack of creatvy" is just a sign of spoilt brats especialy when you look around you and see those you consider with "quality players" struggling to score as well.

Has it occurred that just maybe maybe the "weaker" teams have improved more in their defending and not necessarily that we have regressed or ManU/Chelski/Liverpool with additional firepower has regressed as well? We cant keep blaming Diaby/Nasri partnership for lack of goals. Its like we have short memory span because Cesc just got injured not too long ago and we were still struggling to create chances. Two teams play the game and its always easier to defend better then to attack better.

 

[ronitc]

sack wenger, sell ade

 

[go49oner]

What a load of **** that was, feel sick for paying £45 to see that performance, in the 5 times I been to the grove this is the 3rd goalless draw I witnessed, the only difference this time is this draw nearly put me to sleep, like alfonso said few pages back , at least in past when the result didn't go our way the boys more often than not put in good, entertaining performance, this current team has depth, no passion, no heart and no creativity at all, and this is no blip its been going on all season.

Also I couldn't believe how much hate and stick Eboue got today from the crowed, literally each time he touched the ball I had people all around me saying ' watch him **** it up', 'don't pass to him', ' ooh **** not him' and f'n this and f'n that and there was massive cheer when he was taken off. I been to watch Arsenal many times over the years and this is the 1st time I see a single player getting this much stick, not even opposition player. It got to point where I actually felt sorry for Eboue, because let face it if there is anyone to blame its Wenger for consistently playing out of position when even a ****ing blind man will tell you his been useless there.

Anyways I came across this interesting stat from today's game

Diaby


Denilson

 

[Anzac]

I'm sure you are right re the level improving in the lower table teams & about it being easier to defend than to attack - it's ALWAYS been easier to 'destroy' than to 'create', that's why it's the preferred option for any team in 'survival' mode.

My gripe re this 'lack of creativity' is that Walcott is the only wide players we have who will look to get beyond his man with any consistancy - the rest of them are 'pass merchants' = draw the defender & pass the ball. We DON'T look to turn the defenders & play in front of them & try to pass thru' them.

Further to this Walcott relys heavily upon pace & space in order to beat his man & against a deep set defence he lascks the room to work. IMO we don't have the right options / balance on our flanks from the start & it only gets worse when we put any of Denilson, Diaby or Eboue out there.

IMO we need a wide player who can & WILL run at defenders with the ball & beat them & turn them. Eboue tries this, but in the middle of the park surrounded by defenders and he hasn't the skills to execute it, and he hasn't the intelligence to realise this. Diaby did the same last year when playing on the flank = drift infield & run at defenders with the ball & then lose it. Neither have any end product other than turning over possession.

 

[McIntyre]

Wenger is the biggest culprit. I mean WTF is he keeping RvP nice and safe and snug and warm for :?: I struggle to comprehend his logic.
It's like a man dying of thirst not wanting to drink his water but keep it for later. We must win the game first before thinking about resting players....... If we don't start winning games soon There won't be any later. :roll:

I agree. RVP's form has been key to us getting on this run in the first place. If you've got a team that's working well and playing well, why change it? Now we've had a disappointing home draw, lost two points and disrupted our rhythm. Now we're relying on beating Cardiff to get back in the swing of things before a huge game against Sp**s. If we were to lose against Cardiff off the back of this draw, our momentum is destroyed. We're chasing the pack, and we were doing well with our line-up as it was, so why not just continue with the same. If it ain't broke...

Supposedly RVP was left out so he'd avoid getting a yellow which would rule him out of the Sp**s game. But now we've undermined our form regardless because we've suffered a deflating draw at home, and RVP will probably have to play against Cardiff anyway.

So what was the point in disrupting things?!

 

[Zico]

Go49oner, those images are consistent with what I saw today. I have faith that Diaby can become useful. I'd just like to see him be surrounded by better players. Denilson, on the other hand, is a black hole. He's tidy, but a black hole nonetheless.

 

[go49oner]

Go49oner, those images are consistent with what I saw today. I have faith that Diaby can become useful. I'd just like to see him be surrounded by better players. Denilson, on the other hand, is a black hole. He's tidy, but a black hole nonetheless.

Am on same boat as you, I have always liked Diaby and like Eboue I thought he was unfairly criticised in the past when he played in wing, when it hardly his fault, I remember when Cesc played on right wing for us in past and you know what even he was also useless there and it was around the same time Diaby was hailed as the new vieira when he putting some great performances in middle of the park when he was only 19, remember? The fact that Diaby's name doesn't get much mention in this forum since he moved back in the middle tell me his playing well, which I think he is.

 

[General]

Go49oner, those images are consistent with what I saw today. I have faith that Diaby can become useful. I'd just like to see him be surrounded by better players. Denilson, on the other hand, is a black hole. He's tidy, but a black hole nonetheless.

Well Denilson's advocates would like you to believe that Diaby did ****all today and was the worst player on the pitch.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Go49oner, those images are consistent with what I saw today. I have faith that Diaby can become useful. I'd just like to see him be surrounded by better players. Denilson, on the other hand, is a black hole. He's tidy, but a black hole nonetheless.

Well Denilson's advocates would like you to believe that Diaby did ****all today and was the worst player on the pitch.

I don't think Diaby did ****all and I'm not sure he was the worst player on the pitch. He certainly wasn't the best one though, let alone in midfield. He was slow on the ball and killed the movement in most of the buildup. His work rate deserves some mention though; he put in more effort than the rest of the team combined today (poof goes the "lazy statement" that people are throwing around). I don't know why you have to paint it like it's specifically people who think that Denilson does a okay job that have issues with Diaby. They're playing different roles and West Ham were barely over on our half of the field at all. I'm a great admirer of Diaby when he's really playing well. He hasn't been for the last three games though.

 

[General]

I don't think Diaby did ****all and I'm not sure he was the worst player on the pitch. He certainly wasn't the best one though, let alone in midfield. He was slow on the ball and killed the movement in most of the buildup. His work rate deserves some mention though; he put in more effort than the rest of the team combined today (poof goes the "lazy statement" that people are throwing around). I don't know why you have to paint it like it's specifically people who think that Denilson does a okay job that have issues with Diaby. They're playing different roles and West Ham were barely over on our half of the field at all. I'm a great admirer of Diaby when he's really playing well. He hasn't been for the last three games though.

Well in all fairness Klaus, according to your rating, you unequivocally had him down as the worst player on the pitch. I don't think you are a Diaby basher but then again I fail to see the consistency or balance in your views. He wasn't the best player on the pitch but by no means was he the worst. I hate to give the impression that I’m defending him to the hilt but a bit of objectivity, whether it’s to do with Diaby, Denilson or Joe Bloggs, wouldn’t go amiss.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

I was disappointed because I know he can do so much better, is all. My ratings are individual though. I don't really see the point in comparing a 7 for Gallas to a 6 on Almunia or a 3 for Diaby. Sure, one can say "they did their job" (or perhaps didn't do it), or whatever, but at the end of the day they're playing completely different positions with completely different responsibilities. I might have been a bit too hard on him today as I was really frustrated after the game, but I stand by the opinion that he wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing good enough. I wouldn't dream of putting the reason down as incompetence or him being limited though. I know he isn't.

 

[j'nuh]

I dont normally see the point in Denilson but i thought he was quality today.

I thought it speaks volumes about the way Arsenal fans these days with the amount of stick Eboue got before he was subbed, compared with silence Vela got when everytime he touched the ball it all turned to sh*t. I mean, he was really, really awful. If Eboue had played like that i wouldnt like to think of the reaction he would have got.

 

[j'nuh]

Also I couldn't believe how much hate and stick Eboue got today from the crowed, literally each time he touched the ball I had people all around me saying ' watch him f**k it up', 'don't pass to him', ' ooh f**k not him' and f'n this and f'n that and there was massive cheer when he was taken off. I been to watch Arsenal many times over the years and this is the 1st time I see a single player getting this much stick, not even opposition player. It got to point where I actually felt sorry for Eboue, because let face it if there is anyone to blame its Wenger for consistently playing out of position when even a f****g blind man will tell you his been useless there.

Yeah its fu*king annoying beyond belief. Sad that these days, whether your in a pub or the ground, its seems inevitable that youll be surrounded by a bunch of smug sh*ts who think its cool to just shout out bullshit for 90 minutes.

 

[outlaw_member]

of course i am, as we try to play the same way with diaby and denilson in central midfield as we did with cesc and flamini there. in the context of possession based football, which is exactly what wenger wants at the moment, then that is the basis of the discussion. furthermore, that means diaby and denilson failed today. again. as usual.

We do play the same way, but the roles of the CM's slightly differ from that of Fabregas-Flamini. Neither Diaby or Denilson play the role of the dictator, because they aren't advanced enough on the field, nor do they have the skills for it. Due to circumstances, we no longer have a creative player in CM, therefore, we've had to change our setup in order to compliment the current personel.

Who said we have changed to two defensively minded 'box-to-box' midfielders?

Do you honestly think Wenger believes you can get away with playing, by your own admission, two defensive midfielders whose job is nothing more than 'to harry, and keep the ball moving', when you have Emanuel Eboue on the right wing, who Wenger believes provides the team with defensive solidity?

It doesn't add up mate. Wenger expects his midfielders to move beyond the ball, pass accurately, consistently and incisively. All this can be multiplied by a factor of 10 when facing a team with no intent whasoever of attacking, and with a 9 man brick wall.

Forget the football terminology - defensive box-to-box, attacking box-to-box, it doesn't really mean anything. Wenger expects certain tasks to be carried out by his central midfielders in any system we play. One of the prerequisites of a Wenger central midfielder is accurate forward passing, neither Diaby or Denilson have this capability. If Cesc's next to them, perhaps they can get away with it, but when they are paired together it kills a huge percentage of our creative ability.

You can see from their positioning, that neither are specifically playing as the attacking, or defensive midfielder. They are both playing side by side as defensive minded box-to-box midfielders, which is also apparent by how rarely they run forward, and how they both are close to the ball, when the opposition break.

Eboue is playing due to the lack of options we have at RM. Theo Walcott is injured, and Jack Wilshere is too young. Other than the Ivorian, who else is left?

Yes, he does expect that, but that is where Nasri, Ade and Vela failed. Diaby and Denilson bear some of the responsibility, but they are not the key like Fabregas is. Circumstances change everything, and we no longer have a playmaker in CM. We have 2 players who have a very different skillset, and we have to alter our system in order to acommodate them. Diaby and Denilson don't play like Cesc, so why expect them to? Frankly, you don't, therefore you change the system, whereby you don't rely on them to create. Those two players clearly don't play as advanced as Cesc, or dictate like him, because they are not that type of player.

Your confusing Cesc, with the rest of the CM's that have played for us in recent years. Cesc is an anomaly, he is the only creative CM we've ever had in our team, therefore we a have system that allows him to move up the field and dictate. In his absence, we have never deployed CM's in the same manner. Diarra, Gilberto, Flamini, Ramsey, Denilson, Diaby, Song, have all played as a dual defensive box-to-box midfielders in the Spaniard's absence.