Joelson Fernandes

[14Henry]

I think the key to whether Saliba can play regularly at 19 is who you put next to him. Gomez had VVD, Marquinhos had Silva, Terry had Desailly etc. All experienced, World class players established in their respective leagues. Even Saliba has mostly played alongside a 34 year old Perrin at St Etienne.

Put him with the right partner and he could maybe he could become a first team regular. I really don't think putting him next to Gabriel, Upamecano or Sarr like in a lot of the wish lists is going to work at all however.

Agree. My gripe is that fans are putting their whole expectations that a 19 year old who is learning his trade and played in a farmers league is going to transform our terrible defence. He wont. He needs help. And luiz isnt it. And Holding neither. Nor Sokratis. Nor Mustafi. I also doubt Mari is it either as he has 0 experience in the league.

 

[dashsnow17]

You can find numerous examples of young CB's playing at a high level very early. What you probably can't find is CB partnerships at big clubs consisting of two very young players, which is why i'm skeptical about the idea of just partnering Saliba next to someone like Upamecano or Gabriel or whoever. The natural thing would be to partner him with a more experienced guy.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

@14Henry - "give me examples"

*forum gives a plethora of good examples*

@14Henry - no not those examples !

Come on dude you're being ridiculous

 

[bingobob]

Maldini??? Lol

Probably the finest defender I have seen in my generation over the last 20-25 years.

How many 19 year old defenders are representing English teams this season? Theres plenty of 19 year old CBs out there but theres a reason they arent playing. It's not rocket science. Your trying to make a point that because Maldini played at 17 that its very normal for a 19 year old to be the main man CB at a team. It's not. Its completely rare. Just admit it.

It's not though. I've just listed examples of where young centre backs are playing first team football or historically have. You dismissed that as being too long ago but it shows a point that the very best rise to the top.

What has changed in the game is money. It's easier to sack your manager who has seen players develop and bring in someone new. That new manager doesnt want big risk so rather than playing their 18 year old they loan or sell them and buy an established player. But that player that is established had to break in somewhere. Its a cycle that pushes up the ages but they are still playing football somewhere.

And one named just occured to me that young lad now playing for City at CB? Eric Garcia, 19. Looks talented itll be interesting to see what happens with him. How could I forget Ajer playing at centre half for Celtic as an 18 year old as well. If I really looked I'm sure there are more examples.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Van Dijk could have moved from Celtic straight to liverpool and been a success for a much longer period of time. But he chose a different route.

You're talking as if we are a CL team. Saliba is moving from St Etienne to (currently) a europa league side. Why are we expecting a world class ready made CB in the position we are currently in?

Saliba is moving to further his career, Arsenal are a fantastic step for his development. I have no doubts he will be a success here. And probably move on to a bigger side in years to come.

 

[14Henry]

@14Henry - "give me examples"

*forum gives a plethora of good examples*

@14Henry - no not those examples !

Come on dude you're being ridiculous

Yes you gave me examples of something that happened 20 years ago. With some of the absolute best defenders to grace the game.

Now is Saliba that already? Who knows. But one thing is for sure it will not be easy for him in the PL. I think people judging him havent even seen him play. They go. Ok big unit of a player. He will do.

Let's revisit this in 1 year and see if he has transformed our defence and is of the level of Laporte/VVD etc etc.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

Yes you gave me examples of something that happened 20 years ago. With some of the absolute best defenders to grace the game.

Now is Saliba that already? Who knows. But one thing is for sure it will not be easy for him in the PL. I think people judging him havent even seen him play. They go. Ok big unit of a player. He will do.

Let's revisit this in 1 year and see if he has transformed our defence and is of the level of Laporte/VVD etc etc.

Its because its difficult to find CB's who are real elite tier these days.

 

[14Henry]

Its because its difficult to find CB's who are real elite tier these days.

But it is easy to see a defender who isnt elite. Or even remotely better than what you have. And that is where the club have failed badly.

Have a huge lack of identifying good defenders and buying them. We sign defenders and hope for luck.

 

[Sebastes]

We should not expect something like Saliba and Sarr, Upamecano, Gabriel to come in and deliver. Arteta will almost definitely play Luiz together with Saliba or a more experienced defender, should we sign one.

Young CB’s at top teams? Don’t see how this is important, we’re not a top team. Regardless, you won’t find a lot of 19 y/o CB’s at top teams. Most top teams can buy young talents and ease them in as they usually have very good defenders (which is part of why they are a top team to begin with).

All being said I don’t think discarding the likes of JT, Rio and Varane is fair. Ramos and Maldini is a different league but Saliba is meant to be the biggest CB talent to come through since Varane ffs.

 

[14Henry]

We should not expect something like Saliba and Sarr, Upamecano, Gabriel to come in and deliver. Arteta will almost definitely play Luiz together with Saliba or a more experienced defender, should we sign one.

Young CB’s at top teams? Don’t see how this is important, we’re not a top team. Regardless, you won’t find a lot of 19 y/o CB’s at top teams. Most top teams can buy young talents and ease them in as they usually have very good defenders (which is part of why they are a top team to begin with).

All being said I don’t think discarding the likes of JT, Rio and Varane is fair. Ramos and Maldini is a different league but Saliba is meant to be the biggest CB talent to come through since Varane ffs.

I'm not talking about top teams. I'm talking about all teams. How many 19 year old centre backs have played more than 15-20 games in the PL this season?

 

[Sebastes]

I'm not talking about top teams. I'm talking about all teams. How many 19 year old centre backs have played more than 15-20 games in the PL this season?

Silly me, I thought that was exactly what you were talking about

Tell me when a top team fielded a 19 year old at cb...

I agree with what you’re saying about Saliba alone not going to radically change our defence. We need another more experienced signing. I’d be fine with Saliba for now though. Our defensive woes should be far less if we get a decent DM in.

 

[Garrincha]

Agree. My gripe is that fans are putting their whole expectations that a 19 year old who is learning his trade and played in a farmers league is going to transform our terrible defence. He wont. He needs help. And luiz isnt it. And Holding neither. Nor Sokratis. Nor Mustafi. I also doubt Mari is it either as he has 0 experience in the league.

He defo needs help but its alot about partnerships that we really lack at CB & midfield. Maybe something clicks over the summer break we cant see on paper right now like with Saliba / Luiz + a DM infront.

Some expectations you see on twitter about the kid are insane though. Expecting him to lift us up a level while ignoring whats going on at his club recently.

 

[14Henry]

Silly me, I thought that was exactly what you were talking about



I agree with what you’re saying about Saliba alone not going to radically change our defence. We need another more experienced signing. I’d be fine with Saliba for now though. Our defensive woes should be far less if we get a decent DM in.

Yeah sorry I didnt make myself clear. I mentioned top team but I meant in general a top established side. Even the likes of an Everton/Newcastle. Not a team fighting relegation in league 1 or in Holland.

As I asked before how many 19 year olds are starting in the PL in CB. Someone mentioned Garcia for city but he didnt play when it mattered. These games are like friendlies for city.

There is a clear reason why 19 year olds do not make good centre backs. The same as goalkeepers.

I would love Saliba to come in and perform like Joe Gomez. Let's see what happens but I'm not pinning my hopes on him being the answer to our problems.

 

[dashsnow17]

He defo needs help but its alot about partnerships that we really lack at CB & midfield. Maybe something clicks over the summer break we cant see on paper right now like with Saliba / Luiz + a DM infront.

Some expectations you see on twitter about the kid are insane though. Expecting him to lift us up a level while ignoring whats going on at his club recently.

Yeah isn't that the main thing, that we never seem to have a settled partnership? It feels like years since we played a season with an established CB partnership that wasn't interrupted by injuries.

Even having one good CB that plays every game, like VVD, gives so much stability. With us it's always chopping and changing.

 

[14Henry]

Yeah isn't that the main thing, that we never seem to have a settled partnership? It feels like years since we played a season with an established CB partnership that wasn't interrupted by injuries.

Even having one good CB that plays every game, like VVD, gives so much stability. With us it's always chopping and changing.

That's what happens when you buy 6 centre backs of similar quality.

 

[El Duderino]

@14Henry - "give me examples"

*forum gives a plethora of good examples*

@14Henry - no not those examples !

Come on dude you're being ridiculous

I don't know why people bother, tbh. It's liteterally always like that.

 

[Arsenal1508]

So this thread becoming about Young Center backs vs. sticking to subject of Joelson. FFS.

 

[Trilly]

@14Henry

We are not a top team, Saliba doesn not have to be WC or even close to it. Remember he's meant to be the 'Mbappe' of CBs. Don't think its a massive over-expectation to want him to establish himself as a first teamer, our CBs are crap.

 

[14Henry]

@14Henry

We are not a top team, Saliba doesn not have to be WC or even close to it. Remember he's meant to be the 'Mbappe' of CBs. Don't think its a massive over-expectation to want him to establish himself as a first teamer, our CBs are crap.

Forwards at 18/19 are much more typical than centre backs as it's a position that requires maturity. He may improve us. But not the difference between 8th and 4th. We need more at the back.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

That our entire budget gone. Gracias Kia.