Manchester United vs Arsenal | Sun Aug 28 16:00

[Le Titi]

Did anyone see Traore with a big grin on his face after the game, shaking hands with everyone laughing? Spotted it on MOTD2. Absolute disgrace, out of everything that's happened today this has p*ssed me off the most.

No fight. Disgrace.

 

[jay-d]

Don't pick Troare out. Lansbury was doing it during his brief spell on the pitch as well as a few others.

 

[Le Titi]

Didn't see Lansbury join in on the act as well. How a professional footballer at any level can smile and joke around after an 8-2 loss is beyond me.

Hate to say it but you wouldn't see a Man Utd player doing that after any loss, never mind by how many goals.

 

[jay-d]

My abiding memory from today and trust me there could have been a few was Jenkison's reaction when Walcot told him to not go gung ho and forget his defensive duties. Jenkison told him to f off about 3 times and just dismissed him with his hand signal. That to me just showed the squad is without any leaders or hierarchy amongst the players. How the heck can some bit part league 1 player whos been at the club a few weeks talk to a more experienced(albeit young) team mate and full International like that. Wenger, it seems just lets the players do what they want and hasn't established any lines of respect throughout the club. This is one of the problems and why these players are on a downward spiral unless things change drastically.

 

[GOONER1991]

And if you think Ashley Young was good today then I think you don't know your football, he was utter ****, utter utter ****. Doesn;t mean his first goal wasn't out of this world, his second was decent too = although we give it to him. His play otherwise was crap.

Ramsey was very good for us. Easily our best player.

agree that Young was average other than his goals.. but average against Jenkinson is plenty good enough

disagree that Ramsey was our best player (especially 'easily').. Coquelin was (IMO) 'easily' our best player.. Ramsey was OK, but he didnt exactly cover himself in glory.. slipped all over the pitch in bad spots too

I'm not sure how Ramsey is our best player, considering I can't think of a chance that he made, or a defence splitting pass. I don't expect him to be Fabregas, but playing with Walcott and Van Persie upfront and Gervinho at times this season should provide enough options to pick out a pass. In 5 games so far this season in the AM position, Ramsey's created what? One chance? The goal for Walcott against Udinese? That's simply not good enough.

 

[Mastadon]

Jenkinson was awful, easily the worst performance by an Arsenal defender I have seen in a long time. Arsène is mad for believing that this guy is good enough to be 2nd choice for a club at our level. Why sell Eboue and replace him with a championship level player?

 

[Jury]

My abiding memory from today and trust me there could have been a few was Jenkison's reaction when Walcot told him to not go gung ho and forget his defensive duties. Jenkison told him to f off about 3 times and just dismissed him with his hand signal. That to me just showed the squad is without any leaders or hierarchy amongst the players. How the heck can some bit part league 1 player whos been at the club a few weeks talk to a more experienced(albeit young) team mate and full International like that. Wenger, it seems just lets the players do what they want and hasn't established any lines of respect throughout the club. This is one of the problems and why these players are on a downward spiral unless things change drastically.

That was ****ing unreal... Jenkinson moved to inside right, a full 40 yards from where he should have been, just to look at Man Utd in possession, while Theo was holding the wing position. I've never seen anything like it in my life. The hole left behind him was the size of Peru. Astonishing lack of awareness.

 

[DanDare]

the whole refund the away fans thing is nonsense.

Care to elaborate?

You go to a football match as a fan to support your team first and foremost IMO. You pay to support the club financially, football needs money to run. You don't pay to be shown a good time and to watch your team win. You're there to support your team win or lose.

If we start refunding every time people don't like the result where does it stop? 6-2? Is 6-0 as bad as 8-2? Does 4-1 deserve a refund? What margin of loss warrants a refund. Should we do partial refunds if we concede?

Totally the wrong attitude and I agree as another poster put I bet its not the actual away fans calling for this.

 

[jay-d]

Jenkinson was awful, easily the worst performance by an Arsenal defender I have seen in a long time. Arsène is mad for believing that this guy is good enough to be 2nd choice for a club at our level. Why sell Eboue and replace him with a championship level player?

Your doing a diservice to the Championship. He was playing non league last season and a lot of things in his game tell you why.

 

[Rain Dance]

Porn got me through last night.... now how do I stop remembering it through the day

 

[arsenallegends]

The demolition, Nasri and Fabregas in different colours, the cowardie of some our players and I still haven't taken off my jersey. Too much love and foolish pride.

 

[Fab Fabre04]

My abiding memory from today and trust me there could have been a few was Jenkison's reaction when Walcot told him to not go gung ho and forget his defensive duties. Jenkison told him to f off about 3 times and just dismissed him with his hand signal. That to me just showed the squad is without any leaders or hierarchy amongst the players. How the heck can some bit part league 1 player whos been at the club a few weeks talk to a more experienced(albeit young) team mate and full International like that. Wenger, it seems just lets the players do what they want and hasn't established any lines of respect throughout the club. This is one of the problems and why these players are on a downward spiral unless things change drastically.

It's about age really. Jenkinson was talking to someone 3 years older than him.

If I'm out on the field, my competitive streak kicks in, I hate being criticised and refuse to take **** from even the captain if he's around my age. It's wrong I know, but it's the way things are.

Now, if Patrick Vieira had told me to STFU, I would have paid more attention. Who in our current squad can players really respect? Robin and Vermaelen? And even then, they've got a world cup final and fa cup between them. Both from Robin.

 

[Rain Dance]

My abiding memory from today and trust me there could have been a few was Jenkison's reaction when Walcot told him to not go gung ho and forget his defensive duties. Jenkison told him to f off about 3 times and just dismissed him with his hand signal. That to me just showed the squad is without any leaders or hierarchy amongst the players. How the heck can some bit part league 1 player whos been at the club a few weeks talk to a more experienced(albeit young) team mate and full International like that. Wenger, it seems just lets the players do what they want and hasn't established any lines of respect throughout the club. This is one of the problems and why these players are on a downward spiral unless things change drastically.

It's about age really. Jenkinson was talking to someone 3 years older than him.

If I'm out on the field, my competitive streak kicks in, I hate being criticised and refuse to take **** from even the captain if he's around my age. It's wrong I know, but it's the way things are.

Now, if Patrick Vieira had told me to STFU, I would have paid more attention. Who in our current squad can players really respect? Robin and Vermaelen? And even then, they've got a world cup final and fa cup between them. Both from Robin.

It's not about trophy it's about leadership. Kevin Nolan doesn't have any award to his name, but he can lead the rag tag Bolton

 

[Anzac]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7135647/16-Conclusions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.football365.com/f365-says/71 ... onclusions</a>

16 Conclusions From Manchester United 8 Arsenal 2

Shameful from North London, brutal from the red half of England's new football capital...

Last Updated: 28/08/11 at 19:00 Post Comment

* As a club, Arsenal have been shamed. The boys, who to their infinite credit gave it their all from first minute to last, can be forgiven for being novices sent out to do men's work, but the old men who sent them as disorganised, unprepared, out-of-their-depth lambs for a slaughter carry nothing but the heaviest burden of shame. The board. The medical department. The management. All of them have disgraced what used to be a proper football club.

As a club, Arsenal deserved that. So much and more. Eight wasn't enough punishment for what Arsenal have been allowed to become. As a club, they're just big business gone to footballing ruin.

* As for Arsène Wenger, to send out a team of this ilk is nothing other than rank mismanagement deserving of the ultimate response. Blind to his own failings, he is in a crisis that is close to untenable. He'll survive, he might even finally open his chequebook and open his eyes to his deplorable failures, but his reputation will never recover.

* Don't be fooled into thinking that the result was an inevitable consequence of boys against men. Average age of 23 played an average age of 23. The difference was one of preparation, of class, of management. They might have been weakened, but there are no excuses for Arsenal being so pathetically weak and disorganised. A Sir Alex Ferguson team would never ever take to the pitch in such a state of unreadiness; that is the final damnation of Wenger's failed reputation.

* Or perhaps not. No, the ultimate damnation is Ferguson's sympathy for Wenger and the impression, probably real, that he actually wanted United to stop scoring.

* Arsenal should hire Gary Neville as their defensive coach. Failing that, a defensive coach to teach a few basics would do as a start. Just how could a once great manager field a team that didn't even know if it had a clue. In defence, to exaggerate what it actually was, Arsenal were worse than shambolic. Were they playing offside or not? Were they supposed to be playing a high line or not? Who knows, because nobody on the pitch seemed to know either. "It's just so poor it's unbelievable," opined Alan Smith in commentary. Well, quite. Only the away support offered any resistance.


* I'd 8 2 to be an Arsenal supporter tonight.

PG

 

[Kain]

My abiding memory from today and trust me there could have been a few was Jenkison's reaction when Walcot told him to not go gung ho and forget his defensive duties. Jenkison told him to f off about 3 times and just dismissed him with his hand signal. That to me just showed the squad is without any leaders or hierarchy amongst the players. How the heck can some bit part league 1 player whos been at the club a few weeks talk to a more experienced(albeit young) team mate and full International like that. Wenger, it seems just lets the players do what they want and hasn't established any lines of respect throughout the club. This is one of the problems and why these players are on a downward spiral unless things change drastically.

It's about age really. Jenkinson was talking to someone 3 years older than him.

If I'm out on the field, my competitive streak kicks in, I hate being criticised and refuse to take **** from even the captain if he's around my age. It's wrong I know, but it's the way things are.

Now, if Patrick Vieira had told me to STFU, I would have paid more attention. Who in our current squad can players really respect? Robin and Vermaelen? And even then, they've got a world cup final and fa cup between them. Both from Robin.

It's not about trophy it's about leadership. Kevin Nolan doesn't have any award to his name, but he can lead the rag tag Bolton

It’s ‘Kevin Davies’ Rain Dance, Nolan moved to Newcastle two seasons ago & then West Ham in which he is now captain for them in the Championship.

It’s not really about trophy haul, you’re right, but nor is it about age, as we well know it has been mentioned before Arsenal have had successful young captains ourselves in our history.

The United team today had a younger average age than our own squad for example. It’s the age old problem that’s blighted us for a long time now, when you lack leadership on the pitch, it needs to come from the bench, it needs to come from the manager. United have gone into the season with Ferdinand & Vidic two of their captain figures missing, Scholes and Van der Sar retired two stalwart pros of the game for decades even that twunt Neville who is now a pundit retired, yet still have the best manager for instilling a winning mentality, to get the best out of his team and even induce fear when needed to churn out results.

What was Wenger doing today in the second half, God knows, and what did Wenger even say at half time, what was his tactical input to restore belief we could attempt to rectify a disappointing first half of the match. He just sat there, motionless in the second half, he even subbed off our best player on the day, a debutant 19 year old, and opened the flood gates for a pummelling we’ll never live down. Hardly awe-inspiring leadership on his behalf to pull us back into the game was it.

They had more shots, more shots on target, made more passes, retained more possession, won more tackles, and even made more interceptions, without ever needing to get out of second gear.

Zonalmarking have a good little article on the game, trying to break it down.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/08...l-wengers-heaviest-defeat-as-arsenal-manager/

 

[law90026]

I wont bother with tactics until we have a team capable of playing football the way we want them to. The playing personnel is so poor our starting midfield tonight was awful. Lack of quality players is the problem for me.

I'd start with lack of heart and required levels of energy.

Wenger used to be the best trainer. We had super fit teams.

Now every team seems to have players who can run faster and run for longer than ours.

WTF is going on ?

You need to remember what football was like when Wenger first joined us. The training culture in England was still terrible. I remember quotes at the time of how he enforced pasta/wine at meals instead of the standard non-healthy fare and allowing beer. Our training regimen changed as well (I think it was Parlour who mentioned they stopped doing long distance running over hills and focused more on interval training, etc).

But that advantage was lost a long time ago once other clubs realised how important these things are. Once that was gone, along with our vaunted scouting network, we began to fall behind.

 

[AshburtonGhost]

The early part of Wenger's tenure at Arsenal has increasingly begun to look like a case of right place, right time, IMO.

 

[Hoya]

The early part of Wenger's tenure at Arsenal has increasingly begun to look like a case of right place, right time, IMO.

I've never wanted to believe this, but this match has made a huge case for it.

Like Paul Merson and several others on here have said, to come out here and try to play the way we do with our First XI with the players that we actually had out there was madness. It's completely unacceptable. I don't advocate playing for a draw usually, but being really defensive today would have been entirely understandable. But he had teenagers going out there, playing his usual make-it-up-as-you-go-along attack. This works with world-class players, but here they really needed a system. Some kind of strategy. And they went out there with nothing, just playing the way they always try to. Does he have any tactical ideas or acumen? Can he teach the basics of defense (although, to be fair, the defenders at this level and even lower levels would not have committed some of the mistakes we made today)? It was just pathetic today. He has a lot to show and answer for.

The scary part is... United weren't even that great today. Aside from a 30-minute stretch against Tottenham, and a couple of inspired moments today, they really haven't shown to be dominant. And they beat us EIGHT TO TWO. They didn't have to be solid, we don't have anyone who can keep possession and we are playing a possession-based game. It's incredible.

I blame the defense quite a bit for the result tonight. They made schoolboy errors. I mean schoolboys playing soccer and being stuck in defense because they have never played before leading to errors because they don't know how to play the ****ing game. That's not (entirely) Wenger's fault. But that's no excuse for his tactical errors, which have cost us time and time again.

 

[ibby]

"We scored some fantastic goals. We could have scored more but you don't want to score more against a weakened team like that."

 

[celestis]

"We scored some fantastic goals. We could have scored more but you don't want to score more against a weakened team like that."

You know why Ibby ? Because when you play against a defence ,and score that many there is a danger your play becomes slack and loose next week partly because you expect to score . No other team in the league would have been cut up so easily .

SAF is afraid they might come back to earth next week .