PL: Arsenal v Man U | Sun 31st January | 16:00

[Captain]

From a defensive viewpoint, if you look like this when possession is turned over:

---Song----
--Denilson-
-----------
Roz-Cesc-Arsh-Nasri

rather than like this:

-----Song------
---Cesc--Deni---
--Front three----

then yes, you are going to struggle significantly. There is huge importance in Cesc trying to maintain the shape and not always attempting to run beyond the striker, even if you do lose a little bit going forward.

 

[outlaw_member]

Cesc is a genius, he can do both to a level beyond nearly every other player in the world. He just needs reliable midfield support. If he builds a strong relationship with Ramsey, for example, depending on how the game is going, how the both of them are feeling, they can choose between who's going to play the more progressive role.

He doesn't have a chance against good teams if he's got Denilson alongside him, I think we can all agree on that, and make allowances for him dropping out of the game somewhat. Even still he had tons of chances in the second half to play a pass, or receive a pass from a great run he had made, but everyones heads had gone and nothing came off.

Just in case I wasn't clear, I prefer the AM Cesc over the CM Cesc. However, I do feel that we lack his presence in deeper positions and even though Song has taken up the mantle to a degree of success, it's a large reason why he is often caught out of position because he has to take the game to the opposition. As JGooner would put it, the third CM is often always inconsequential and does nothing to make the game easier for his counterparts. If the third CM was able to help Song at controlling possession, the Cameroonian wouldn't have to carry the ball forward like he often does and he wouldn't make himself vulnerable to getting caught out. All too many times I've seen Song advance with the ball because the other CM doesn't, then the move breaks down and Song is high up the pitch and out of position.

 

[Timleaf]

How much do people think our constant loss of defensive shape in midfield is down to a distinct lack of talker's in the central three? I dont think I've ever seen Song or Denilson utter a word on the pitch. Diaby and cesc are pretty quiet too, although I think Cesc has improved on this aspect of his game a bit this year.

I'll always remember going to watch one of Gilberto's first games for the club and, despite the fact that he couldn't really speak the language, he was hugely animated-gesticulating, pointing, pigeon english- in getting his team mates to do what he wanted them to do, and go where he wanted them to go.

 

[Captain]

How much do people think our constant loss of defensive shape in midfield is down to a distinct lack of talker's in the central three? I dont think I've ever seen Song or Denilson utter a word on the pitch. Diaby and cesc are pretty quiet too, although I think Cesc has improved on this aspect of his game a bit this year.

I'll always remember going to watch one of Gilberto's first games for the club and, despite the fact that he couldn't really speak the language, he was hugely animated-gesticulating, pointing, pigeon english- in getting his team mates to do what he wanted them to do, and go where he wanted them to go.

Communication is definitely a problem. 3-4 times a game one of midfielders will lose possession cheaply because he has recieved the ball with a man on his shoulder and nobody has said a word.

 

[ricky1985]

Cesc is a genius, he can do both to a level beyond nearly every other player in the world. He just needs reliable midfield support. If he builds a strong relationship with Ramsey, for example, depending on how the game is going, how the both of them are feeling, they can choose between who's going to play the more progressive role.

He doesn't have a chance against good teams if he's got Denilson alongside him, I think we can all agree on that, and make allowances for him dropping out of the game somewhat. Even still he had tons of chances in the second half to play a pass, or receive a pass from a great run he had made, but everyones heads had gone and nothing came off.

Just in case I wasn't clear, I prefer the AM Cesc over the CM Cesc. However, I do feel that we lack his presence in deeper positions and even though Song has taken up the mantle to a degree of success, it's a large reason why he is often caught out of position because he has to take the game to the opposition. As JGooner would put it, the third CM is often always inconsequential and does nothing to make the game easier for his counterparts. If the third CM was able to help Song at controlling possession, the Cameroonian wouldn't have to carry the ball forward like he often does and he wouldn't make himself vulnerable to getting caught out. All too many times I've seen Song advance with the ball because the other CM doesn't, then the move breaks down and Song is high up the pitch and out of position.

The 3rd midfielder is affecting us both offensively and defensively. We need to see how the team does once Diaby gets up and running again or even Ramsey, and perhaps even wait until Bendtner is clicking into gear upfront, to get a full idea of the role Fabregas will play, and how that affects Song and the defence.

 

[Nela]

Communication is a problem all over the pitch.

Did anyone manage to miss the Gallas stare at Almunia a couple of games ago? It said it all.

Even Sagna almost blew up at Almunia a while back for not saying anything when he found himself in a difficult situation.

 

[Lord Dula]

What I noticed was that Arshavin was the only one offering off the ball movement yesterday.

My god, Samir Nasri is just a useless lump these day. Also for a team billed as being pacey, we've only really Arshavin who is. Granted Theo and Clichy can run fast but that hinders them.

 

[ibby]

Communication is a problem all over the pitch.

Did anyone manage to miss the Gallas stare at Almunia a couple of games ago? It said it all.

Even Sagna almost blew up at Almunia a while back for not saying anything when he found himself in a difficult situation.

And Traore throwing a hissy fit against Bolton I think.

These are basic defensive errors that this team is making. All our goals yesterday could have been easily avoided.

 

[kamikaze80]

it's a huge pet peeve of mine when i play. everyone should always be talking, defensive guys should be organising from the back and the ball receiver should always get a call when there's a man on. we definitely need bigger personalities like gilberto. i definitely think it's a personality issue and not a language thing. i suspect there are some young players who don't think they have anything to learn from arshavin or gallas, too.

 

[Nela]

I also agree about the lack of pace. For me it's vital that the third midfielder has pace along with a strong physical presense. So basically, Diaby is our best bet now.

I think we need at least two "men's bodies" in midfield IMO. So no manboys like Nasri, Rosicky or Denilson. Ramsey can probably eventually have that physical presense, but he's not physically developed enough yet and unfortunately lacks in the pace department.

 

[Kain]

We're not the only one or team that suffers from communication problems, even Rafael(?) for united headed a ball out for a corner that could easily of been cleared if he had a shout yesterday but it does seem a common theme. We play the game at lightening pace compared to most which can make it that much more difficult but we still need to work on that aspect of our game, Arshavin is always telling people what to do where to go etc wish we had a few more like him in the team, Gallas just seems like he’s about to explode and needs 500G of Diazepam pre-game just to cool him down each game and Almunia’s communication is just pathetic 90% of the time... so yea we do need to work on it but I would not say it’s the be all and end all of the current problems.

 

[Lord Dula]

I also agree about the lack of pace. For me it's vital that the third midfielder has pace along with a strong physical presense. So basically, Diaby is our best bet now.

I think we need at least two "men's bodies" in midfield IMO. So no manboys like Nasri, Rosicky or Denilson. Ramsey can probably eventually have that physical presense, but he's not physically developed enough yet and unfortunately lacks in the pace department.

Lorik Cana!!!!! Just kiddin

Nels, you should share your convo with tha boys in the tolly after the game!

 

[ibby]

I also agree about the lack of pace. For me it's vital that the third midfielder has pace along with a strong physical presense. So basically, Diaby is our best bet now.

Stamina and work-rate? Yes. Pace? No.

Pace is probably the least important attribute for a central midfielder. It's not a part of the pitch that you can use it in because it's too congested most of the time.

 

[ricky1985]

Ramsey, for me, is the perfect player for the role. It's a shame he's still a year or more away from that level though.

 

[Lord Dula]

Ramsey, for me, is the perfect player for the role. It's a shame he's still a year or more away from that level though.

perfect player internally, but not really the perfect player out there

 

[Nela]

I also agree about the lack of pace. For me it's vital that the third midfielder has pace along with a strong physical presense. So basically, Diaby is our best bet now.

Stamina and work-rate? Yes. Pace? No.

Pace is probably the least important attribute for a central midfielder. It's not a part of the pitch that you can run flat out 95% of the time because it's too congested.

I'm not simply talking about "a midfielder" I'm talking about the third midfielder in our system. It's improtant to have someone of the three that can cover a lot of ground quickly. None of Fabregas, Song or Denilson can do this. When Diaby was playing well before he got injured one of the big positives was his ability to track back very quickly, covering a lot of ground at a speed, and defend. None of our other CMs can do this.

 

[thegame24]

Ramnsey is too immature and tries too many fancy things. Diaby is the best option, then ramsey

 

[Timleaf]

it's a huge pet peeve of mine when i play. everyone should always be talking.

I feel exactly the same. I remember when I was a kid (13/14) the dad's that used to come and watch my team play used to say how quiet we were on the pitch. At the time I thought being vocal was all about simple encouragement ("come on boys", that sort of thing). But it was only when i started playing with better players and adults at 19/20 that I realised that the game is so much easier when you're organising and instructing on the pitch. Ever since then I've made a point of never being too inhibited to communicate, even when I've gone and played for a new team with established players.

 

[ricky1985]

Ramsey, for me, is the perfect player for the role. It's a shame he's still a year or more away from that level though.

perfect player internally, but not really the perfect player out there

Not for me, I think he'll grow into the exact player we need next to Cesc, and ahead of Song. Look at his attributes; 6' tall, energy to burn, great technial ability, great attitude to hustle and press opponents. Wenger has said he would be happy playing him right back (and he's played there for cardiff), so he's obviously got defensive instincts.

 

[Captain]

I also agree about the lack of pace. For me it's vital that the third midfielder has pace along with a strong physical presense. So basically, Diaby is our best bet now.

Stamina and work-rate? Yes. Pace? No.

Pace is probably the least important attribute for a central midfielder. It's not a part of the pitch that you can run flat out 95% of the time because it's too congested.

I'm not simply talking about "a midfielder" I'm talking about the third midfielder in our system. It's improtant to have someone of the three that can cover a lot of ground quickly. None of Fabregas, Song or Denilson can do this. When Diaby was playing well before he got injured one of the big positives was his ability to track back very quickly, covering a lot of ground at a speed, and defend. None of our other CMs can do this.

You always need pace. If it's available you take it in any position.