PL: Arsenal v Man U | Sun 31st January | 16:00

[General]

Our defensive patterns are best described as laughable and we look far from secure even with men behind the ball. The system is one that breeds utter laziness and it’s not difficult to see why it takes just one underperforming player to cause the whole thing to collapse. I think we can all spot those who strive for perfection in this team. It still begs belief how a centre back is able to go up for corner and still out-sprint a smaller outfield player who almost certainly should be the first one heading back the moment possession is turned over.

 

[Iloveyouarsenewenger]

Basically, we are doing the complete opposite of parking the bus tactics.

Why do teams park the bus? Because they realize that their defense is not good enough to stop the bigger side from scoring. So, basically, they defend with 10 men and their midfielders play in defensive roles for majority of the game.

The trade off here is that, this weakens their attack and they hope to sneak in a goal or two, either on the counter or through set pieces.

Our case is the complete opposite. We have a team where the midfield and the forwards never keep the shape and when we are on attack mode, almost everyone goes forward to attack, including full backs. The trade off here is the defense. When we have weak options in midfield defending, we tend to get hit hard on the counter and give away easy scoring chances.

Now, against the smaller teams, this is sort of acceptable as we do manage to get goals whenever we get into the massive all out attack mode. Also, with them, the danger of being hit on the counter is relatively less as they do not have the players to successfully carry it out.

However, the Chelseas and the Uniteds and the Man Cities have the players who can hurt us on counter and that is when these tactics get undone.

But, coming back to the reason behind these tactics, we know that the Boltons and the Stokes park the bus because they do not have the defenses that can stop the big sides from banging in goals and that is the exact reason why we stream forward all the time as well.

We do not have the 25+ goal-scoring forwards to get us the goals. The players at Barca can keep their shape because they have quality forward line that gets them 60+ league goals on their own. We, on the other hand, have been playing midfielders in forward roles and need our central midfield players to compensate for the lack of scoring from the centre forward.

 

[ricky1985]

Our defensive patterns are best described as laughable and we look far from secure even with men behind the ball. The system is one that breeds utter laziness and it’s not difficult to see why it takes just one underperforming player to cause the whole thing to collapse. I think we can all spot those who strive for perfection in this team. It still begs belief how a centre back is able to go up for corner and still out-sprint a smaller outfield player who almost certainly should be the first one heading back the moment possession is turned over.

Desire.

 

[Pepe LeFrits]

It's all about pace, movement, and desire.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

It's all about pace, movement, and desire.

Indeed.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7CgKvhpoo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P7CgKvhpoo</a>"

 

[Captain]

You don't need pace in central midfield guys.

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

last night i watched the sorry episode again and here are a some of the things i noticed.

1 - The game was finely balanced until Carrick and Scholes swapped positions. Now most people think this tipped the game because Carrick nullified Cesc - not quite. This switched caused havoc because Cesc and Song didn't figure it out until half time...when Arsenal were 2-0 down. Although Song is the holding player, in the early part of the game, he would mark Carrick and Cesc would be nearest to Scholes. When they swapped, Song didn't know if he should stay in his holding role or stay with Carrick. In the end he done neither, leaving both Carrick and Scholes room to play. Ideally he should have picked up Scholes and told Cesc to get tighter to Carrick.

2 - Fergie figured our left hand side was a weakness. Clichy had a poor gme but it's too easy just blaming him, as his cause wasn't helped by Nasri and Denilson. Nasri just doesn't know how to defend, he doesn't get goal side, he doesn't get back with any urgency and is not physically strong enough.
In our 4-1-4-1 or 4-3-3, Denilson is detailed with the left side of the field (Diaby occupies that area too when Cesc is fit) and he was just as bad defensively as Nasri. Fergie put fletcher on Denilson, hoping his energy and desire would win out. It did! Not only did fletcher win more 50/50s he also found a lot of space in and around out penalty area running off the back of Denilson.

3- Arshavin seemed to have too much desire in this game. This game was the most i have seen Arshavin involved in a long time. He done a lot of good things, but he wasted a number of chances in front of goal. he played like a wreckless man on a mission. As wreckless as he was, at least he did play with purpose and a desire, which was encouraging, as i feel he's been making up the numbers of late.

4 - Also playing with purpose were Cesc, gallas, Vermaelan and Sagna. These players tried very hard to get Arsenal back in the game. To that i should include Song (he did try), but i still have issues with him. Yes he has improved vastly, but mentally he is still slow. He doesn't have a picture when he has the ball, so he takes three touches when it could be done in one. Credit to him, he wins a lot of possession, but it seems he doesn't read the game enough and constantly ends up making last ditch tackles.

5 - Then there's Rosicky. Rosicky had a strange game. The rest of the players totally by-passed him. When he received the ball he rarely lost it and he was physically strong. He also done a lot of running into space but he was often ignored. He didn't have a great game but he hardly had possession to affect things. During the match i was thinking maybe we should take Denilson off and play Cesc deeper, with Rosicky in the hole. Yes i know that somewhat negates Cesc, but Cesc defends better than Denilson. He tracks runners and isn't scared to put his foot in. This also frees Rosicky to play a role he favours more,plus he's a player who is not scared to shoot on sight.

6 - Added to those were the obvious factors like: not having a forward with presence; man utd giving us space in wide areas, knowing crosses won't hurt them; and their midfielders working harder to defend for the team.

Same result as champions league last year although different manner of defeat. Last year the excuse was we lost the game before we started, this year Wenger has stated we were poor defensively and offensively. Hopefully something will be done by our next game...

...Chelsea away huh? Good Luck Boys!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Rooney plays with Johnny Evans and Wes Brown.

Evans and Brown aren't first XI players. Almunia and Denilson are.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Thats a nice little rule Gurgen but what about the ease with which teams get through our midfield and our vulnerability to counters? What does your rule do about that? Buying a keeper would be like cellotaping a broken pair of glasses back together instead of going out to buy a new frame.

It is a nice little rule because it's true.

What you're describing has more to do with tactical awareness, discipline and experience. It will improve with time. We played one on one at the back from the 30th minute on Sunday. I don't care if Baresi is at CB and Rijkaard is the DM, you're going to get ripped apart eventually. I don't see how you draw conclusions on the quality of our players based on this tactical ****.

Just before Clichy took over from Traore..the boy was got into too many one on one situations. I am not defending some of Traore's defense failings (as a group) but individually he was getting caught up too many times on one on one. If you have noticed teams bring the ball to Sagna and we all go right then a long one to the other side puts leaves our FB alone.
Teams have been doing that quite often lately..and i what i find amazing it they only do it on one side (i.e you dont see those teams going write and we all shift left for them to hit a long one to try expose Sagna on one on one).

So is it that they see usually leave our Left FB vulnerable or they see Sagna as too stong to be beat on one on one? I do think Sagna does usually get more support on his side..because basically Gallas is sometimes our rb. You dont see TV going as far left as Gallas going right.

Food for thought.

 

[JGooner]

Sagna can defend. Clichy cannot. That's it. No need to go through theoretical contortions to explain something that is actually quite simple.

 

[Invincible]

I think the lack of effort was the most disappointing thing to see on Sunday. As many have said, I can forgive lack of quality as long as the player gives absolutely 100% but that was not the case against Man Utd. A number of players looked like they couldn't give a **** and that's unforgivable. Vieira said in his book that playing ManU he didn't need a pep talk from the manager to get him up for the game, he was already fired up for it because it was ManU.

 

[thegame24]

Sagna can defend. Clichy cannot. That's it. No need to go through theoretical contortions to explain something that is actually quite simple.

Neither can attacks right now, and its killing our game.

They both need a slap

 

[AshburtonGhost]

They shouldn't be attacking anymore. It's a complete cop out and a sad indictment on the creative/attacking ability of our wide 'forwards', particularly on the right side.

 

[Clrnc]

Just watched this match again and paused every single key moment to analyse it.
Denilson is poor beyond hope. Ridiculous performance, I lost count of how many times he tried to control a ball, got tackled and we gave away a dangerous chance.

First goal, the whole Almunia body angle is wrong. Can't be arsed to give a screenshot, but when you pause and look, how the hell does a goalkeeper try to tip a ball over the bar facing your own goal using your underhand? It obviously won't be able to stop it from going into the goal, it you are facing it, unless you peddle in backwards which in human terms is impossible. Oh and before anyone blame Clichy, you should ALSO take a look at Denilson. How the hell did he let Nani get past him so easily? Fear of conceding another penalty?

Second goal, Nasri,Vermaelen,Clichy,Sagna,Denilson ran to stop the counter. Vermaelen pace was awesome, he really ran his guts out to defend. Clichy and Sagna as well. Nasri was abit far behind but he caught up in the end as well. Denilson was jogging casually until at the last minute when he realised Rooney was behind, he tried to accelerate a little but its too late.

3rd goal was all about Denilson trying to control the ball. Understandably we were pushing and trying to score back, leaving only Clichy alone. So when Denilson did that suicidal act, it was 3v1 and Clichy really didn't know to close down on who. Either way, its just too open and its a goal.

We had quite alot of chances, the match could have gone either way. But the key battle was lost in midfield. I feel Denilson had a poorer performance than Almunia tbh. He made us 2v3 in midfield and often was invisible leaving the defence open. And added to the fact he had a hand in all 3 goals...

 

[ricky1985]

It was the same when I re-watched it Clrnc, I just couldn't quite believe how heavily involved in every single one of our poor moments Denislon was. I tried to watch without my preconceived ideas about Denilson, and about why we give up so many chances, but I came away even more convinved he's absolutely crippling us as a team right now, and that his removal would improve things dramtically.

If he starts against Chelsea then I just won't be able to see where Wenger is coming from anymore.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I feel the same way, Ricky and Clrnc. Without wanting to turn this into a Denilson-bashing thread, I did want to add that I find it hard to understand Arsène at times like these - where we're so close to winning the league and having a truly competitive team, yet he persists with Denilson starting in literally every single match he's fit (Almunia as well). I know Diaby wasn't fit for this one, but surely Rambo could've played, or even Nasri or Rosicky in midfield.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Arsène does against Chelsea with Diaby hopefully back. I've never been so.... baffled... by an Arsenal player as I am with Denilson.

 

[abz_14]

They shouldn't be attacking anymore. It's a complete cop out and a sad indictment on the creative/attacking ability of our wide 'forwards', particularly on the right side.

I wouldnt say to them to stop attacking, rather to attack with purpose. Too long I have seen Sagna and Clichy run down the wing, support the wing forwad, get a cross in withour actually giving a f*** if there is anyone in the box. This leads to us conceding possesion and an instant counter attack by the better teams. To me they either need to look at who they are crossing to or not cross at all!

Ron, I think the one player we did miss against Man Utd was in fact Diaby. I know it seems a bit odd to say it but he is a different player to that of last season and he would have added the height and strength in midfield that Denilson fails to add.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

I know Diaby wasn't fit for this one, but surely Rambo could've played, or even Nasri or Rosicky in midfield.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Arsène does against Chelsea with Diaby hopefully back. I've never been so.... baffled... by an Arsenal player as I am with Denilson.

This is where you go off...suggesting Rosckly/Nasri can do a better job. Thats simply not the case. Even Rambo is not a guaranteed improvement. He spends a lot of his energy going forward, he hasnt showed any better defensive awareness then Denilson and stays with the ball for too damn long.
I wont have a problem if he starts instead of Denilson on Sunday as Denilson has been poor lately(i dont buy it that he has always been this bad). Of course prefereed option might be Diaby (not because of his defensive attributes either maybe just his physical appearance and ability going forward but Diaby is probably even worse the Rambo, definitely worse than Denilson with regards to defensive awareness). The more i look at the "other" options the more i see why Wenger sticks with Denilson. There are no other better options with regards to "defensive awareness and discipline". Its Song then Denilson.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I know Diaby wasn't fit for this one, but surely Rambo could've played, or even Nasri or Rosicky in midfield.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what Arsène does against Chelsea with Diaby hopefully back. I've never been so.... baffled... by an Arsenal player as I am with Denilson.

This is where you go off...suggesting Rosckly/Nasri can do a better job. Thats simply not the case. Even Rambo is not a guaranteed improvement. He spends a lot of his energy going forward, he hasnt showed any better defensive awareness then Denilson and stays with the ball for too damn long.
I wont have a problem if he starts instead of Denilson on Sunday as Denilson has been poor lately(i dont buy it that he has always been this bad). Of course prefereed option might be Diaby (not because of his defensive attributes either maybe just his physical appearance and ability going forward but Diaby is probably even worse the Rambo, definitely worse than Denilson with regards to defensive awareness). The more i look at the "other" options the more i see why Wenger sticks with Denilson. There are no other better options with regards to "defensive awareness and discipline". Its Song then Denilson.

Yeah, Arsène seems extremely reluctant to play Nasri and Rosicky in midfield. I still think Nasri could do the job between Song and Cesc, and for a while, at the end of last season, Arsène seemed to think so too. But ever since we've moved to 4-3-3, he's opted for Nasri on the wings again. I think that although Denilson's defensive awareness, positioning and discipline are often lauded (too much so, in my opinion), he's failed to even make an impact in these areas. Once again against United his defensive work wasn't good enough.

I definitely think that Song-Ramsey-Cesc can work, and Song-Diaby-Cesc can definitely work.

Also, some food for thought; perhaps we shouldn't be saying 'I can understand why Arsène's sticking with Denilson; the other options are even worse', but rather 'If Denilson is our best option, Arsène's done a bad job building a midfield'.

 

[flobaba]

Denilson must look very good in training.

If he can cope with the mental aspect, i.e. not letting his head down during this period (which I believe must be a very tough time for the kid) Denilson, like Song and Diaby, will come good eventually. I'm sure of it. Become something like an Unsung Hero. Unfortunately, it will cost us quite a bit during the time while he develops.