PL: Arsenal vs Newcastle | 18/11/06

[stiiphunn]

Id also like to know why he still hasn't solved the problem of overcoming teams that play 10 men behind the ball.

Take a page from Fungus book.

Let me ask anyone here, who would think we can beat fat Sam in their backyard 4-0 ?

We have lots of amazing players, but we need more speed and more shooting from outside, but that is just my opinion.

Question: when was the last match a striker scored for us during the run of play [outside the RVP and TH14 Free Kicks] ?

Henry against Reading. But that's not my point.

I really do think this team is too young to compete with proven players that Chelsea and Man U have- sure, we have quality and everything, but it takes time to learn how to win games week in week out.
Look at our line up yesterday, the only proven players we have were Lehmann, Henry and Gallas - and probably Toure too-.
The other players are just really really young, and therefore a little immature.
On the goal we concede, Eboue's lack of experience was blatant. An experienced defender would not have been so passive.

IMO, our lack of experience will cause us problems against the small teams because we may not be focused enough- thinking maybe that it'll be an easy match-.
The way we play against the big teams is backing up my thoughts. When it's a big match, we are up for it, focused on what we're doing.
We have to learn how to win matchs week-in week-out.

 

[>YounGunner<]

Cut the slack on Eboue. If he is one on one with a winger he 9/10 he wins the ball. His defending is decent and attack world class for a full back. It was a central defenders job Eboue had when defending against Dyer and made the mistake. Move on.

 

[sabret00the]

Id also like to know why he still hasn't solved the problem of overcoming teams that play 10 men behind the ball.

Take a page from Fungus book.

Let me ask anyone here, who would think we can beat fat Sam in their backyard 4-0 ?

We have lots of amazing players, but we need more speed and more shooting from outside, but that is just my opinion.

Question: when was the last match a striker scored for us during the run of play [outside the RVP and TH14 Free Kicks] ?

Henry against Reading. But that's not my point.

I really do think this team is too young to compete with proven players that Chelsea and Man U have- sure, we have quality and everything, but it takes time to learn how to win games week in week out.
Look at our line up yesterday, the only proven players we have were Lehmann, Henry and Gallas - and probably Toure too-.
The other players are just really really young, and therefore a little immature.
On the goal we concede, Eboue's lack of experience was blatant. An experienced defender would not have been so passive.

IMO, our lack of experience will cause us problems against the small teams because we may not be focused enough- thinking maybe that it'll be an easy match-.
The way we play against the big teams is backing up my thoughts. When it's a big match, we are up for it, focused on what we're doing.
We have to learn how to win matchs week-in week-out.

i think you're confusing the role of experience in football to be honest with you. experience is a necessity when it comes to protecting leagues, even when it comes to knowing how to pace yourself across a whole game. but in creating chances or scoring the first goal, it's not about experience, it's about ability and tactics. experience will not solve the problem of a formation that stifles our two biggest players, nor will it deal with the fact that one of our only goal outlets is stuck in midfield.

we've been competing against this ten men behind the ball thing for far too long now and common sense says you play around it, with width. for some reason we thought 4-5-1 and it's sad because we stifle ourself instead of playing to our strengths.

I'm honestly really pissed off by this whole debacle. as a fan i don't like 4-5-1 and i really can't support it. it suits absolutely no one bar maybe the fact we can accommodate rosicky, that is not the basis of a formation, if he can't beat Cesc for a position in the team then seriously, he has to get used to life on the bench.

Stop the madness already.

 

[Gurgen]

Spot on sabre.

I mean Wenger said it himself, 'I want to play 4-5-1 because I can put a lot of technical players in the middle.' That actually made me laugh out loud. It's like a kid who wants to play with all of his toys at the same time.

 

[clockwork orange]

Agree with Gurgen and Sabre.

And IF Wenger wants to play 4-5-1 anyway, at least play it to it's strengths. For example play real wingers: Walcott would skin HSV's Klingbeil.

 

[bojed]

it's nothing wrong with playing a lot of technical-gifted players in the middle but the saddest part is that they're not clinical finishers as well.

 

[Gurgen]

Walcott is scared to take on his man because at Arsenal we don't dribble.

 

[kel varnsen]

Agree with Gurgen and Sabre.

And IF Wenger wants to play 4-5-1 anyway, at least play it to it's strengths. For example play real wingers: Walcott would skin HSV's Klingbeil.

i seriously doubt it. walcott has so far only in glimpses shown that he's even willing to try to take on a defender one on one. if we are to continue playing 4-5-1, i'd swap van persie and hleb and that's it.

van persie-rosicky-gilberto-cesc-hleb
henry

say what you want about rosicky and his lack of composure in front of goal, but he is actually terrific off the ball and he, unlike most of our other midfielders, are able to get into goalscoring positions. furthermore, from the right wing, van persie could cut in and become a goal threat. hleb proved last night, as he has while playing in bundesliga, that he can play on the left wing as well.

only problem would be breaking up the eboue-hleb partnership. hleb is excelent at tracking back and covering the space behind eboue when the ivorian bombs forward. i doubt van persie would be able to do the same, so it would require a bit more defensive effort from the central midfielders.

 

[dos1986]

Agree Fully Gurgen and the ever brillant Sabre Arsène is taking the piss now,he must know by now that everything that has been great about ous has gone we are neither here nor there at moment,we have no power,no speed,no goals we are playing a very frustrating slow-quick-slow football now which I dont like to be honest.Im still trying to ffigure out were Arsenes love of technical slow build up football has come from he has always built his teams on pace and power from what I can remember.

 

[bojed]

Walcott is scared to take on his man because at Arsenal we don't dribble.

how 'bout the belarussian conquerer?

 

[sabret00the]

Walcott is scared to take on his man because at Arsenal we don't dribble.

how 'bout the belarussian conquerer?

we do dribble in bits, but i mean you even look at henry and think where the hell has his driving runs into the box gone?

 

[stiiphunn]

Look, I'm not a fan of the 451 formation, and I agree with you when you say it's causing us troubles. I'd love it if we could go back to 442, but I'm not sure it would solve our problems.

Sure you need experience to protect the leagues, but you also need experience to win every single match you play.
Look at Lyon, look at Man U, they'd play the exact same way against Brazil than against Luxembourg ( Hope there isn't anyone from Luxembourg on this forum ).
We seem up for it when we play against big teams, but somehow I get the feeling that we are a bit complacent against the small teams.
It's all about motivation, and when you're a young talented player, you're excited when it comes to playing Man U, but you aren't that motivated when it comes to playing a weak side.
It takes time to learn how to be focused in every single game you play.

Btw, I agree with Kel, walcott clearly isn't ready. switching hleb and RvP would be a good idea.

 

[otfgoon]

It took fergie the best part of a season to realise 4-4-2 is better than 4-5-1/4-3-3, just hope it doesnt take Arsène the same time.

But still, I think people are putting far too much blame on the formation and manager. People are forgetting we had the same problems with 2 up top, and we always improved massively in the second half, more so towards the end. The problem has been the slow tempo the games are starting off with. Reading was a great example of how these games should be started off, players making runs, good movement and generally being awake. Yesterday against Newcastle we were almost static. Cesc was not allowed to display his passing abilities, not because of the formation, but because the likes of Hleb, Ade, Robin and Bap wernt making runs or moving into space. Its almost as if we are starting these games and waiting to concede.

 

[jester]

Walcott is scared to take on his man because at Arsenal we don't dribble.

how 'bout the belarussian conquerer?

we do dribble in bits, but i mean you even look at henry and think where the hell has his driving runs into the box gone?

He had two v newcastle when he came on, drifting in from the left like times of old. If only we always had another striker upfront

 

[Gurgen]

I started enjoying the game when Henry went back to taking people on over on the left wing. It's what he does best and we started to look like a threat again. It was also the first time we resembled an attacking football team. Please don't bring back the Henry playmaker Arsène.

 

[the dawn raids]

if we are to continue playing 4-5-1, i'd swap van persie and hleb and that's it.

totally agree. the benefits of moving van persie over outweigh the negatives for me (breaking up hleb/eboue). weve got to find another consistent scoring outlet, and moving vP over to his favorable side, and hopefully giving henry a little more liscense to roam left, can only help.

 

[Rocafella]

The problem now is this patient football we attempt to play. The main contributor to this is Cesc. There's no urgency in his play to release the ball earlier then he does. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing passer of the ball but sometimes he just needs to release it earlier. We let him dictate the tempo of our play and for me it's just not quick enough and it let's teams re-group behind the ball.

On the other hand Rosicky who I think has been one of our best performers this season, is good for us because he's quick in playing the ball and quick in thought and his off the ball movement is good.

We need to really up the tempo of our passing and when that happens and teams start to lose their shape we can try and penetrate more then we are and attempt to be more direct with our passing.

 

[sabret00the]

The problem now is this patient football we attempt to play. The main contributor to this is Cesc. There's no urgency in his play to release the ball earlier then he does. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing passer of the ball but sometimes he just needs to release it earlier. We let him dictate the tempo of our play and for me it's just not quick enough and it let's teams re-group behind the ball.

On the other hand Rosicky who I think has been one of our best performers this season, is good for us because he's quick in playing the ball and quick in thought and his off the ball movement is good.

We need to really up the tempo of our passing and when that happens and teams start to lose their shape we can try and penetrate more then we are and attempt to be more direct with our passing.

to pass the ball quicker, he needs people to pass to, with the 4-5-1 he has no forward runners to release the ball too, hence slowing down the game so the team can slowly work their way up the pitch instead.

 

[otfgoon]

The problem now is this patient football we attempt to play. The main contributor to this is Cesc. There's no urgency in his play to release the ball earlier then he does. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing passer of the ball but sometimes he just needs to release it earlier. We let him dictate the tempo of our play and for me it's just not quick enough and it let's teams re-group behind the ball.

On the other hand Rosicky who I think has been one of our best performers this season, is good for us because he's quick in playing the ball and quick in thought and his off the ball movement is good.

We need to really up the tempo of our passing and when that happens and teams start to lose their shape we can try and penetrate more then we are and attempt to be more direct with our passing.

to pass the ball quicker, he needs people to pass to, with the 4-5-1 he has no forward runners to release the ball too, hence slowing down the game so the team can slowly work their way up the pitch instead.

Agreed its not Cesc's fault, but I dont understand why one of Hleb, Rosicky, Robin cant join theirry and make a "forward run" in the 4-5-1.

 

[sabret00the]

The problem now is this patient football we attempt to play. The main contributor to this is Cesc. There's no urgency in his play to release the ball earlier then he does. Don't get me wrong, he's an amazing passer of the ball but sometimes he just needs to release it earlier. We let him dictate the tempo of our play and for me it's just not quick enough and it let's teams re-group behind the ball.

On the other hand Rosicky who I think has been one of our best performers this season, is good for us because he's quick in playing the ball and quick in thought and his off the ball movement is good.

We need to really up the tempo of our passing and when that happens and teams start to lose their shape we can try and penetrate more then we are and attempt to be more direct with our passing.

to pass the ball quicker, he needs people to pass to, with the 4-5-1 he has no forward runners to release the ball too, hence slowing down the game so the team can slowly work their way up the pitch instead.

Agreed its not Cesc's fault, but I dont understand why one of Hleb, Rosicky, Robin cant join theirry and make a "forward run" in the 4-5-1.

Because Arsène once saw a game where every member of the team got four touches in a build up to a goal (tap-in), no one dribbled it was just sublime one touch football. ever since that day he's been trying to replicate the prowess of that team and that goal, sadly at the behest of points.