PL: Chelsea vs Arsenal | 10/12/06

[Captain]

Captain, I agree with your point about creating goal scoring chances but I don't think Senderos was too effective. Djourou was doing the job of two defenders back there.

I think Phil was doing okay in the air, had a few thumping headed clearances. Didn't offer much more but I wouldn't like to kick him while he is down; my views of him are already well known around the forum.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

As someone correctly stated, Chelsea rarely created any chances yesterday from open play. They all came from our own defensive mistakes/give aways(inexperiences of our defenders). And few others were from set pieces(corners/throw ins) . This is like a boxing match..where people usually remember the last 3 rounds of the fight. But all i know is once we scored, Chelsea still was not a major threat going forward, infact the period of sustained pressure form them was before we scored and we were the ones heaping pressure on ourselves with careless give aways at the back and in the middlefield.

 

[patrick42uk]

what does our record against the top sides recently say? .

i reckon it means we have a good cup side. in one-off games, we can use our 4-5-1 and play an organised tactical game where we work at stifling the opposition. then, with the possesional players we have, we are able to keep the ball at crucial times. thats been the case particularly this season with the increasing understanding between hleb and fabregas and addition of rosicky. theres also a sprinkling of pace, with players like ade and henry and reyes last year to give us a counter attacking threat. although that was more the case this year than last, due to the loss of reyes and his direct running/falling over on the break. ade did a good job of that yesterday, running into channels then waiting for others to join like for fabregas' shot.

kinda reminds me of the valencia and depor sides that cause us so much grief in europe. perhaprs explains wenger's recent liking for spaniards.

thing is, these styles are better suited to the cl and spain. you cannot get away with playing at a pedestrian pace in england because a) fulham can happen where a team ups the tempo for 90 minutes b) the story of emirates can happen where we help teams defending in numbers by playing 'slow, slow bloody slow' football.

its early days yet but i'm hopeful that wenger can adapt our style a bit more to become more premiership friendly. beating the top teams alone wont win you a league.

 

[Viper]

Am I the only one that thinks Essien toe punted the ball into the net yesterday?

Whats so bad about toe-punting it anyway? It was a fantastic goal nevertheless. Should never have happened though, as that **** Cole clearly fouled Hleb.

It's a shame Hleb missed that absolute sitter too. Oh well, Chelsea gave us a couple of scares in the last five minutes and luckily they hit the post twice as opposed to hitting the back of the net.

 

[thegame24]

obviously it was hit and hope but thats what he was goin for so fair play to him.

 

[lagos]

Apparently Wenger was heard swearing "he always does that" when Hleb missed that chance

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

what does our record against the top sides recently say? .

i reckon it means we have a good cup side. in one-off games, we can use our 4-5-1 and play an organised tactical game where we work at stifling the opposition. then, with the possesional players we have, we are able to keep the ball at crucial times. thats been the case particularly this season with the increasing understanding between hleb and fabregas and addition of rosicky. theres also a sprinkling of pace, with players like ade and henry and reyes last year to give us a counter attacking threat. although that was more the case this year than last, due to the loss of reyes and his direct running/falling over on the break. ade did a good job of that yesterday, running into channels then waiting for others to join like for fabregas' shot.

kinda reminds me of the valencia and depor sides that cause us so much grief in europe. perhaprs explains wenger's recent liking for spaniards.

thing is, these styles are better suited to the cl and spain. you cannot get away with playing at a pedestrian pace in england because a) fulham can happen where a team ups the tempo for 90 minutes b) the story of emirates can happen where we help teams defending in numbers by playing 'slow, slow bloody slow' football.

its early days yet but i'm hopeful that wenger can adapt our style a bit more to become more premiership friendly. beating the top teams alone wont win you a league.

http://www.arsenal-mania.com/forum/view ... ht=#743652

Getting that balance is going to be tough. In our Vieira days we were suited for the EPL more..time has changed..our current set of playes are more suited for the EPL. Manure's current style (high tempo) is ideal for the EPL but wil backfire in the CL. Chelsea's style fits in any league..even Sunday league. I am telling you, even the free flowin barca will struggle to win the EPL without adding a different set of players. I think with Diaby back (one of the few guys ithe middle who will win and immediately bolt forward(Vieira's style) and guys like Baptista...coming through we should have the personned to play the high tempo/physical game..when necessary.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Apparently Wenger was heard swearing "he always does that" when Hleb missed that chance

Funny thing i could have bet 9 out of 10 times Hleb would have trapped the ball and try to pass it again. Thats what he always does in games. I know it was an missed opportunity that required him trap the ball, but the fact he took a shot is a positive thing because in so many cases he doesnt take shots when he is supposed to.

 

[IBL]

I keep thinking about the Hleb missed chance and how if he had only tried to control-pass it into the net rather than kick seven shades of sh*t out of it....the pace already on the ball from the cross so he only had to divert it. Oh well. what's done is done

 

[RockyRocastle]

p.s when that goal went in i cant describe what went on....
ended up 3 rows in front somehow absolute quality...
singing as we came out as well- still recovering now

As I said before, that celebration is in my top 5 ever. I dont think it went that mad even at the CL final. I wish I could have seen what it looked like from the Chelsea end - how s**t were they by the way!

Loads of good lads out yesterday, our away support especially in London is getting its old egde back which is only a good thing. Shut the mugs up outside who usually scare everyone away.

Who are those mugs Rocky? The Chelsea Headhunters?

No, the 'headhunters' havent been around for 20 years! Just a load of sad knuckle draggers that always wait outside looking to bully shirts. Unfortunately they found no shirts to bully this time.

 

[sabret00the]

Why cant you never be proud of beeing a gooner, Sabret? We had a average age of about 23 on the field yesterday with two, i must say, very unexperienced central defenders. Playing 442 woulndt give us more attacking options because as you all saw yesterday the battle was mostly done in midfield. With one less player there i dont think we would ever have the ball to attack. Dont think Wenger instructed Arsenal to play defence either. That is just something that happens when our team knows they have to defend for eachother. Or do you think Eboue-Djourou-Senderos-Clichy would have done the job on their own? Your hate for 451 is pretty obvious, but frankly its getting pathetic now. Be glad our kids walked away with one point on a bad day against cska chelski.

Proud Gooner? What the f**k does that have to do with anything? i should be proud of what exactly? I'm proud to be a gooner? i get very proud when we perform well? i'm proud of the fight we show? but that doesn't mean i can't be disappointed with the tactics deployed or the result.

You talk about the team defending for eachother, what makes you think that if we play 4-4-2 we can't defender for eachother? you talk about the game being battled and won in midfield, tell me how many tackles we won in midfield? Gilberto won his balls on the edge of our box and inside our box while Cesc kept on hazing in and out of the game like something out of WoW and Flamini was a passenger up until his goal.

Why am i lauding 4-4-2 on this occasion? because we had no choice but to play in midfield. going forward there was no options and for all of Adebayor's running and harassment he had substandard support which is what happens when you require a midfielder and a 19 yo at that to do the job of a striker? so what am i saying exactly? i'm saying that if you play ball to feet with both Manu and Robin in an attacking position, you had a much bigger opportunity to exploit the spaces which were being created in Chelsea's team and a chance to kill of the opposition early? why would be do that? because that's how we've won trophies and what's happened since we stopped doing that? we've relied on penalties to get us one trophy.

As previously stated, you can talk about 4-5-1 all you like, but the fact of the matter is, goals win games. how many times did we win by outscoring the opposition and dictating the nature of the game aggressively as opposed to this bullshit 4-5-1 system where you rely on luck? and while you continue to question my loyalties to the team because the result went the way you wanted. you have to question the fact that without luck it could've been another story for us all together. because while they were hitting posts, what were we doing? passing the ball around midfield. and when they went and started attacking while we continued to try and play the possession game, we got ripped to shreds.

The scoreline was kind to us. yes we deserved to have something go out way finally but let's not be ignorant to the facts.

I did however enjoy the match, that being something that you may have missed.

All im saying is that your bollocks about the 451 or Wenger starts to be too pathetic now. Im not pro 451 nor against 442, but i believe in Wenger to put together the team available and required. Im not questioning your lojalty. Im not a judge of how much of a gooner you are. You can be a spud for all i care. But what im saying is that our team, Wenger included, should get much more respect then you are shoving them. As someone else said... we were five minutes away from doing what no team has done to Chelsea in 51 games and that with a team filled with 4-5th options in crucial aerias. Football, or Arsenal at least, is not just about the result. And yesterday our young lads fought hard enough and Wenger instructed them good enough, to recieve some credit. You dont have to have a go at Wenger for every point we loose. If you cant take dissapointments maybe teletubbies is more suitable for you.

And for the Senderos-Henry thing. I dont care if you are paid one mill or 10 pence. Humans are humans and as long as they do their best, who are we to judge? Just because you are getting a s**t load of money, doesnt make you a super human. If you struggle you struggle and you need time and help to get over that.

Ok, so when we've finished celebrating the fact that our thin squad full of kids (by design may i add) done what it was paid to do, then what? Kel raised a solid point. he said paraphrasing to make it sound good

"we're all happy to celebrate the achievements of our team but what does it say when we have to celebrate the fact that they showed fight? should that not be a necessity of every game? and why must showing fight come at the cost of stringing two passes together? these are professional footballers who are paid to at the very least pretend to want to sweat blood for the club and yet because they've done it for the the third time this season, we're like wow. that was good. and if we are going to celebrate the odd show of passion and fight, how are we supposed to feel for the rest of the season?"

as i said. i enjoyed the game. but all this playing for a draw bollocks hurts me, i feel we're better than that. and that's in the face of a win or a loss. we rode our luck to one point yesterday and if luck hadn't been on our side then wed' all be pissed off. i however aren't pissed off. i'm just on an Arsenal site trying to discuss the intricacies of our game. if it was sheer unadulterated fandom and glory hunting i was after. i'd surely go to the fluffy-bunny version of this site where bad words can't be said and everyone meets up once a month to on our match results sitting in a circle singing church hymns in the names of better results.

Oh and Henry vs Senderos: One was strolling around blaming everyone else for misfortune bar himself while the other sat patiently and waited for his chances and when he got them showed visible improvement on a per game basis. As we have it. one's been sent on holiday while the other busts a gut to prove his worth.

 

[Alfonso]

If Chelsea came to Arsenal without Terry, Carvahlio, Lampard and Drogba they would struggle, and i would be suprised if they came away with a point. This could be said about any of the teams in top 4 as well. Therefore, considering our situation, we did well.

Sabre, dont let the last 5 mins of the game blind your overall impression of the game. In the first half we were clearly the better team. Yes, Arsenal could have played better, and maybe when we scored we were like "oh ****, what shall we do now!", but we were playing Chelsea away, their not exactly mugs you know. Hopefully, with experience, we will improve this aspect of our game.

This season everyone has shouted out that Arsenal should add substance to their style, and against Chelsea i felt we did that.

Now i want to see if we can apply the same approach to the Wigan and Pompey games. If we can, then we are slowly, but surely "on the right tracks" again.

Theres a lot more to come from this Arsenal side. The win's against Man Utd, Liverpool and Spur's and the performance against Chelsea is just the begining i feel.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Ok, so when we've finished celebrating the fact that our thin squad full of kids (by design may i add) done what it was paid to do, then what? Kel raised a solid point. he said paraphrasing to make it sound good

"we're all happy to celebrate the achievements of our team but what does it say when we have to celebrate the fact that they showed fight? should that not be a necessity of every game? and why must showing fight come at the cost of stringing two passes together? these are professional footballers who are paid to at the very least pretend to want to sweat blood for the club and yet because they've done it for the the third time this season, we're like wow. that was good. and if we are going to celebrate the odd show of passion and fight, how are we supposed to feel for the rest of the season?"

as i said. i enjoyed the game. but all this playing for a draw bollocks hurts me, i feel we're better than that. and that's in the face of a win or a loss. we rode our luck to one point yesterday and if luck hadn't been on our side then wed' all be pissed off. i however aren't pissed off. i'm just on an Arsenal site trying to discuss the intricacies of our game. if it was sheer unadulterated fandom and glory hunting i was after. i'd surely go to the fluffy-bunny version of this site where bad words can't be said and everyone meets up once a month to on our match results sitting in a circle singing church hymns in the names of better results.

Oh and Henry vs Senderos: One was strolling around blaming everyone else for misfortune bar himself while the other sat patiently and waited for his chances and when he got them showed visible improvement on a per game basis. As we have it. one's been sent on holiday while the other busts a gut to prove his worth.

You got 19 clubs that always come to Stanford bridge to do WHAT they are paid to do. They also sweat, work hard and in most cases dont achieve the desired results. Our kids, were able to achieve the result. Yes we got lucky somehows but sh* we gave them most of the best chances. GAVE THEM.

So the reason we should be happy is because our kids managed to get a descent draw and infact had a chance to win it also. Listen, we been playintg enough games..outplaying teams and still drawing. This wasn't even the case of really being outplayed. We held our own. That is something we can be very proud of.

Its really stupid suggesting "cos they are professionals" they should do what they are supposed to do. Yes, but am sure (don't know your age) but even at work..if you do someting that you are paid to do right, sometimes you get your praise. Its a matter of the person appreciating the effort of the team (WIN or LOSE). By the way, had Lampard's goal gone in, I still would have been proud of our team..cos once again at the end of it, we did hold our own, yes with the 4-5-1 which was necessary. This is not about the result only, its about how we played and how we coped with the russian machine. Just look at it this way, since some of you perfectionists claim we played poorly but we managed a draw, does that mean if we had played well, we could have won this game? And if that is the case, prior to this game, when you thought we would lose was that based on the fact that you KNEW we would play even worse than how we did? Because according to you, if we played to our potential, then this would have been a win right?

Chelsea gave it their best shot cos they needed the win. This was a massive game for them. They got a draw and won't *****" too much about it. But to some here, what the kids did is still not good enough.

 

[bazza_afc]

I'm glad Cesc didn't shake his hand, that c*nt questioning Cesc's ability (the super feather weight jibe) and all the pathetic innuendo about the young players egos etc.

That c*nt is a coward, writing his sad little book slagging our players off, then coming face to face with them & expecting everything to be sweetness & light.

Good on Cesc, his heart and loyalties are in the right place.

 

[stuart]

we should make up a cesc appreciation song. a true gooner at heart.

 

[Alfonso]

Did anyone see the players line up in the tunnel before kick off? All our players looked determined and none were having any eye contact with Ashley. Good on them. If Titi was there im not sure if it would be the same, as he would prob want to hug John Terry for half an hour.

 

[sabret00the]

Ok, so when we've finished celebrating the fact that our thin squad full of kids (by design may i add) done what it was paid to do, then what? Kel raised a solid point. he said paraphrasing to make it sound good

"we're all happy to celebrate the achievements of our team but what does it say when we have to celebrate the fact that they showed fight? should that not be a necessity of every game? and why must showing fight come at the cost of stringing two passes together? these are professional footballers who are paid to at the very least pretend to want to sweat blood for the club and yet because they've done it for the the third time this season, we're like wow. that was good. and if we are going to celebrate the odd show of passion and fight, how are we supposed to feel for the rest of the season?"

as i said. i enjoyed the game. but all this playing for a draw bollocks hurts me, i feel we're better than that. and that's in the face of a win or a loss. we rode our luck to one point yesterday and if luck hadn't been on our side then wed' all be pissed off. i however aren't pissed off. i'm just on an Arsenal site trying to discuss the intricacies of our game. if it was sheer unadulterated fandom and glory hunting i was after. i'd surely go to the fluffy-bunny version of this site where bad words can't be said and everyone meets up once a month to on our match results sitting in a circle singing church hymns in the names of better results.

Oh and Henry vs Senderos: One was strolling around blaming everyone else for misfortune bar himself while the other sat patiently and waited for his chances and when he got them showed visible improvement on a per game basis. As we have it. one's been sent on holiday while the other busts a gut to prove his worth.

You got 19 clubs that always come to Stanford bridge to do WHAT they are paid to do. They also sweat, work hard and in most cases dont achieve the desired results. Our kids, were able to achieve the result. Yes we got lucky somehows but sh* we gave them most of the best chances. GAVE THEM.

So the reason we should be happy is because our kids managed to get a descent draw and infact had a chance to win it also. Listen, we been playintg enough games..outplaying teams and still drawing. This wasn't even the case of really being outplayed. We held our own. That is something we can be very proud of.

Its really stupid suggesting "cos they are professionals" they should do what they are supposed to do. Yes, but am sure (don't know your age) but even at work..if you do someting that you are paid to do right, sometimes you get your praise. Its a matter of the person appreciating the effort of the team (WIN or LOSE). By the way, had Lampard's goal gone in, I still would have been proud of our team..cos once again at the end of it, we did hold our own, yes with the 4-5-1 which was necessary. This is not about the result only, its about how we played and how we coped with the russian machine. Just look at it this way, since some of you perfectionists claim we played poorly but we managed a draw, does that mean if we had played well, we could have won this game? And if that is the case, prior to this game, when you thought we would lose was that based on the fact that you KNEW we would play even worse than how we did? Because according to you, if we played to our potential, then this would have been a win right?

Chelsea gave it their best shot cos they needed the win. This was a massive game for them. They got a draw and won't *****" too much about it. But to some here, what the kids did is still not good enough.

Don't get me wrong, my counter argument to Kel was "how often do you go to work and put in 110%?" that's the nature of life. but at the same time, while i take nothing away from how happy i was at that goal. shell shocked first might i add, i went mad like a whole minute after the goal even went in such was my disbelief. i'm just saying i felt we could've worked harder for the win. just like in those games where you talk about out playing the opposition, i don't agree that passing the ball around midfield with no killer intent is outplaying, but that's a question of what each of us deem as good football and inevitably my idea of football is reliant on attacking threats.

As for playing to our potential. who knows. if i could judge things like that i'd be a millionaire. but what i will say is that if we did, then i doubt we would've been so sloppy and thus have gifted them the chances we gifted them and thus i feel we could've had an upset but i'm a biased fan. what am i supposed to say? if everyone played their best we would've lost?

 

[go49oner]

Crazy jens accusses fat Frank as “a specialist in insulting people.”

JENS LEHMANN last night branded Frank Lampard “a specialist in insulting people.”

Lamps, 28, enjoys a clean-cut image as a family-man England midfielder.

But Arsenal keeper Lehmann insists there is another side to the Chelsea star.

German No 1 Lehmann was involved in a childish shoving match with Blues striker Didier Drogba during Sunday’s 1-1 draw at Stamford Bridge but insisted Drogba was not the problem.

Gunners hero Lehmann, 37, said: “I like Drogba. I think the handshake between us says it all.

“You can have passion in the game but, as long as you get on with people nicely, it’s OK.

"He didn’t insult me in comparison to his team-mates and I can’t complain with him.

“Some of his team-mates insulted me terribly but Drogba never does that so I have no problem with him.

“Lampard is a specialist in insulting people very badly but Drogba is a nice guy — he doesn’t insult people.”

The bad blood between the two sides following Ashley Cole’s summer switch to the Bridge spilled over into a tunnel bust-up between the England left-back and Arsenal midfielder Cesc Fabregas after Sunday’s showdown.

The pair had a number of verbal exchanges during the game and, at one point, Cole called for Fabregas to be booked for a push on Drogba. Lamps had to step in and calm his team-mate.

At the final whistle Fabregas twice ignored Cole as they made their way off but, as SunSport exclusively revealed yesterday, the simmering tension eventually boiled over and the players had to be pulled apart by Blues backroom staff.

Lehmann, meanwhile, insists Arsenal were the better side.

He added: “We played well and deserved a win. When you compare the style of the teams, we were far above them.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2002 ... 56,00.html

 

[patrick42uk]

what does our record against the top sides recently say? .

i reckon it means we have a good cup side. in one-off games, we can use our 4-5-1 and play an organised tactical game where we work at stifling the opposition. then, with the possesional players we have, we are able to keep the ball at crucial times. thats been the case particularly this season with the increasing understanding between hleb and fabregas and addition of rosicky. theres also a sprinkling of pace, with players like ade and henry and reyes last year to give us a counter attacking threat. although that was more the case this year than last, due to the loss of reyes and his direct running/falling over on the break. ade did a good job of that yesterday, running into channels then waiting for others to join like for fabregas' shot.

kinda reminds me of the valencia and depor sides that cause us so much grief in europe. perhaprs explains wenger's recent liking for spaniards.

thing is, these styles are better suited to the cl and spain. you cannot get away with playing at a pedestrian pace in england because a) fulham can happen where a team ups the tempo for 90 minutes b) the story of emirates can happen where we help teams defending in numbers by playing 'slow, slow bloody slow' football.

its early days yet but i'm hopeful that wenger can adapt our style a bit more to become more premiership friendly. beating the top teams alone wont win you a league.

http://www.arsenal-mania.com/forum/view ... ht=#743652

Getting that balance is going to be tough. In our Vieira days we were suited for the EPL more..time has changed..our current set of playes are more suited for the EPL. Manure's current style (high tempo) is ideal for the EPL but wil backfire in the CL. Chelsea's style fits in any league..even Sunday league. I am telling you, even the free flowin barca will struggle to win the EPL without adding a different set of players. I think with Diaby back (one of the few guys ithe middle who will win and immediately bolt forward(Vieira's style) and guys like Baptista...coming through we should have the personned to play the high tempo/physical game..when necessary.

diaby cannot win the ball back. i find it strange that people talk about him as 'muscle', worst kind of stereo-typing there is. diaby is big but he cannot tackle, he barely gets near anyone in midfield to be able to do that. tactically he's all over the place.

but i do agree that for the prem, espcially at home, we'll need a sustained period of high tempo. i think thats why wenger bangs on about the first goal. with 4-5-1 if we get that goal, teams wont get back into it and we'll be dangerous on the break. reading was the perfect example where the early goal really helped.

 

[Sammer]

diaby cannot win the ball back. i find it strange that people talk about him as 'muscle', worst kind of stereo-typing there is. diaby is big but he cannot tackle, he barely gets near anyone in midfield to be able to do that. tactically he's all over the place.

Are you sure about this, patrick? I mean, there are plenty people talking about Diaby posessing all kinds of qualities, and he has bareley played a competitive match for us. Therefore, I would rather wait to make a final judgement on his qualities.