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Player Ratings - CL: Arsenal vs Juventus | 28/03/06

asajoseph

Established Member
Usually I like to be cool, calm and objective when I take part in these threads - I like to get happy about a win, but will hand out criticism where it's due and praise where it's earned. I'll appreciate the football, but call a spade a spade where due.

Unfortunately though, last night I was pissed by half time (I drink too quickly when I get nervous), watching the game in the Twelve Pins because I couldn't get a ticket, and missed about 15 minutes after the second goal trying to stop my mate getting into a fight with some **** standing behind him. So, all in all, I can't really be arsed. But I do have a fair few comments about this game.

Firstly, Sabre, I love you mate but you're way, way too harsh (although I was wearing beer goggles, which have the same effect on Arsenal football players as they do on women). Yes, Juve didn't look like they played that well, but that was more down to the way we fought than anything else - we didn't allow them a single good chance all night, and considering they were playing two strikers (none of this negative 4-5-1 nonsense ;) ), big, strong and skillful, that's a fantastic feat.

Whilst I'm not going to run through a whole list of ratings, I think a few players do deserve a special mention. Firstly, I feel duty bound in this one to take my hat off to Matty Flamini. I've earned myself a reputation for being one of his biggest skeptics, and, to be honest, I still don't think he's a great midfielder. But his performances at left-back this season, particularly in the last few weeks, have really begun to endear him to me. Last night though, I believe, was the best of the bunch, and a defensive display that any LB in the world would have been proud of. He harried the wingers so so well, won some fantastic balls, was tough, fast, and perhaps even a little bit 'nutty'.

The whole of the back four played fantastically well, positioned themselves in the right places, and Jens, although most are rightly saying he had little to do, controlled his penalty area extremely well. Kolo Toure in particular must now be surely considered among the premier central defenders in Europe.

As for the midfield, again, I really think everyone (even the much maligned Pires and Gilberto) played their part, but Fabregas again stole the show. Whoever was telling us but a month ago that he's overrated and doesn't deserve to be considered in the same breath as 'true wonderkids' really needs to hang their head in shame. Gilberto too, still fairly ropey in his passing, is beginning to pull his defensive weight once more - I'd almost forgotten what that shrug of the shoulders and 'what, me?' expression looked like, but after some of his challenges in the midfield tonight, I surely now remember! Enjoyed his little spat with Camoranesi (I think) too, was great fun!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I'm gonna get back to finding my voice!
 

quattro

Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Juventus: Player Ratings

qs said:
Im not exactly sure who those players in the redcurrent shorts were, I mean they looked familiar but last time I seen our players get kicked that much they rolled over and let Bolton take the points. Last night they just stood back up and kept on fighting. It was all well and good out playing an open side like Real but beating Juve was a whole other ball game. Im absolutely delighted with the resiliance and determination our players showed.
i agree. juventus executed their game plan the best they could (ie harass us, not give us time or space) but we adapted quite well. also, anybody notice us using more width lately? sure we still dont play the winger-crossing to the box thing, but i think we really stretched them enough to make room enough in the middle for the rapier thrusts.
 

Sammer

Established Member
asajoseph said:
Usually I like to be cool, calm and objective when I take part in these threads - I like to get happy about a win, but will hand out criticism where it's due and praise where it's earned. I'll appreciate the football, but call a spade a spade where due.

Unfortunately though, last night I was pissed by half time (I drink too quickly when I get nervous), watching the game in the Twelve Pins because I couldn't get a ticket, and missed about 15 minutes after the second goal trying to stop my mate getting into a fight with some **** standing behind him. So, all in all, I can't really be arsed. But I do have a fair few comments about this game.

Firstly, Sabre, I love you mate but you're way, way too harsh (although I was wearing beer goggles, which have the same effect on Arsenal football players as they do on women). Yes, Juve didn't look like they played that well, but that was more down to the way we fought than anything else - we didn't allow them a single good chance all night, and considering they were playing two strikers (none of this negative 4-5-1 nonsense ;) ), big, strong and skillful, that's a fantastic feat.

Whilst I'm not going to run through a whole list of ratings, I think a few players do deserve a special mention. Firstly, I feel duty bound in this one to take my hat off to Matty Flamini. I've earned myself a reputation for being one of his biggest skeptics, and, to be honest, I still don't think he's a great midfielder. But his performances at left-back this season, particularly in the last few weeks, have really begun to endear him to me. Last night though, I believe, was the best of the bunch, and a defensive display that any LB in the world would have been proud of. He harried the wingers so so well, won some fantastic balls, was tough, fast, and perhaps even a little bit 'nutty'.

The whole of the back four played fantastically well, positioned themselves in the right places, and Jens, although most are rightly saying he had little to do, controlled his penalty area extremely well. Kolo Toure in particular must now be surely considered among the premier central defenders in Europe.

As for the midfield, again, I really think everyone (even the much maligned Pires and Gilberto) played their part, but Fabregas again stole the show. Whoever was telling us but a month ago that he's overrated and doesn't deserve to be considered in the same breath as 'true wonderkids' really needs to hang their head in shame. Gilberto too, still fairly ropey in his passing, is beginning to pull his defensive weight once more - I'd almost forgotten what that shrug of the shoulders and 'what, me?' expression looked like, but after some of his challenges in the midfield tonight, I surely now remember! Enjoyed his little spat with Camoranesi (I think) too, was great fun!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I'm gonna get back to finding my voice!

Always great to read your match assessments, asa. Keep em coming :D

I enjoyed Arsène´s quote a lot

"If Robert starts to tackle that's a very good sign for Arsenal!"
 

Liberace

Active Member
asajoseph said:
Usually I like to be cool, calm and objective when I take part in these threads - I like to get happy about a win, but will hand out criticism where it's due and praise where it's earned. I'll appreciate the football, but call a spade a spade where due.

Unfortunately though, last night I was pissed by half time (I drink too quickly when I get nervous), watching the game in the Twelve Pins because I couldn't get a ticket, and missed about 15 minutes after the second goal trying to stop my mate getting into a fight with some **** standing behind him. So, all in all, I can't really be arsed. But I do have a fair few comments about this game.

Firstly, Sabre, I love you mate but you're way, way too harsh (although I was wearing beer goggles, which have the same effect on Arsenal football players as they do on women). Yes, Juve didn't look like they played that well, but that was more down to the way we fought than anything else - we didn't allow them a single good chance all night, and considering they were playing two strikers (none of this negative 4-5-1 nonsense ;) ), big, strong and skillful, that's a fantastic feat.

Whilst I'm not going to run through a whole list of ratings, I think a few players do deserve a special mention. Firstly, I feel duty bound in this one to take my hat off to Matty Flamini. I've earned myself a reputation for being one of his biggest skeptics, and, to be honest, I still don't think he's a great midfielder. But his performances at left-back this season, particularly in the last few weeks, have really begun to endear him to me. Last night though, I believe, was the best of the bunch, and a defensive display that any LB in the world would have been proud of. He harried the wingers so so well, won some fantastic balls, was tough, fast, and perhaps even a little bit 'nutty'.

The whole of the back four played fantastically well, positioned themselves in the right places, and Jens, although most are rightly saying he had little to do, controlled his penalty area extremely well. Kolo Toure in particular must now be surely considered among the premier central defenders in Europe.

As for the midfield, again, I really think everyone (even the much maligned Pires and Gilberto) played their part, but Fabregas again stole the show. Whoever was telling us but a month ago that he's overrated and doesn't deserve to be considered in the same breath as 'true wonderkids' really needs to hang their head in shame. Gilberto too, still fairly ropey in his passing, is beginning to pull his defensive weight once more - I'd almost forgotten what that shrug of the shoulders and 'what, me?' expression looked like, but after some of his challenges in the midfield tonight, I surely now remember! Enjoyed his little spat with Camoranesi (I think) too, was great fun!

Anyway, that's my two cents, I'm gonna get back to finding my voice!

can you remind us what you said of Wenger during the summer when he sold Vieira? :D
 

Sammer

Established Member
asajoseph said:
That he needed to be replaced.

And I still stand by that - the league table doesn't lie.

Always disagree here. Cesc was always up for the job, but it was the midfielders around him that let him down.

With the workrate, grit and comittment of yesterdays Pires, Reyes, Gilberto and Reyes we would have won many league games with ease...

Anyway, let´s not get into that again (wrong topic), but let´s celebrate this fantastic win :D
 
Post subject: Arsenal vs Juventus: Player Ratings
Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:41 pm

Arsenal

* Jens Lehmann (6) nothing to do
* Emmanuel Eboue (7) one of our better players
* Kolo Toure (7) good game
* Philippe Senderos (7) played well
* Gilberto (6) came alive in the second half
* Francesc Fabregas (7) done well, second half was alot better for him
* Mathieu Flamini (6) done his job well
* Alexander Hleb (6) not one of his better game
* Robert Pires (6) done the marking job well, but nothing else spectacularly
* Jose Reyes (6) came alive in the last half hour
* Robin Van Persie 82 (6) not enough time
* Thierry Henry (7) worked hard

* Arsène Wenger (6) the formation clearly wasn't working, and if not for players standing up to be counted we could've been punished, we lacked rhythm and looked off the pace for most of the game, he also left it all too late to make the changes, but a win means you're right irrespective of hindsight.

* MOTM: Francesc just edging it over Eboue for me.

Which game did you watch mate?
I thing all players were 9/10 except Fabregas 10/10
 

asajoseph

Established Member
Cesc has been brilliant over the last few weeks and months, no doubt, and there's absolutely no doubting his quality. I've ALWAYS had him pegged as one of, if not the best young midfielder in the world in his agegroup. But he hasn't played well throughout the whole season - he started brightly, and has been fantastic of late, but he also went through more barren patches (although he was far from the only one), enough for a fair few people to lose faith in him altogether.

Fabregas has grown massively in stature over the last few months, no doubt, but we still really can't afford a season where we don't finish at least fourth - what's the reason that this looks possible? Well, it's not failing to replace Vieira exclusively, but it is a factor no doubt. Vieira was, for many years, a wonderful player for us - even when he was in his last season when many were panning him, he still played an important role in a reasonably successful (albeit disappointing) season. To say that selling him would have no impact on the side whatsoever really underestimates the quality of the player and the man himself.

Whilst Cesc's perfomances in big games against Real, Juventus and Liverpool in recent weeks have been lightyears ahead of anything one could reasonably expect from a player his age, he simply hasn't been as good as that all season - yes, he hasn't been helped much by the woeful form that Pires, Ljungberg and especially Gilberto have shown for much of the year, but Paddy, in his prime, was good enough to run a midfield on his own for most of a season.

Fact is, two seasons ago we were undefeated and last year we were comfortably second and won the FA Cup. Now we're 6th, battling Sp**s, Bolton and Blackburn for a Champions League spot, and miles behind a Manchester Utd side that had a woeful start to the season - despite our brilliance in Europe this year, you can't argue that something hasn't gone wrong this year at least.

Of course, this isn't entirely down to any one factor - injuries, a thin squad, some naive tactics and a lack of inspiration have all been our undoing on numerous occasions - but selling our captain, our talisman and our midfield enforcer, and starting the season with only three legitimate central midfielders, and a relatively inexperienced bunch at that, was always going to be a mistake - in fact, if you look at the depth of our squad, failing to replace Vieira from a numbers point of view alone seems like a bad idea.

Simply put, if you'd suggested in January that we hadn't needed to replace Vieira, at the point of the season where we were getting beaten with alarming regularity and our midfield was frankly pathetic, you'd probably have been lynched - crucially, we dropped points we would NEVER have dropped last season, and although things have really picked up now, it remains to be seen if the damage caused by those poor months can be repaired. And that's why not replacing Vieira was, obviously in my eyes, a mistake.

Anyway, I really intended to keep this a short post, because I don't much enjoy criticising anyone associated with Arsenal on a morning like this - but I've failed and waffled on for far too long. I will, always, stand up and admit it when I've been wrong about things in the past, so this isn't a matter of pride to me. But I really do feel that, on balance over the season, the quality of our midfield play simply has not been high enough.
 

dafish

Active Member
sabre's got an occasional insightful post among his piles of trash posts so i rarely bash him... but i've just lost all respect for him today.

After dumping the top italian team on their ass, you don't rate half the team 6's and the other half 7's. If you have seen Juve play at all they look like **** 90% of the time. but they just some how manage to scramble the ball inside the goal once or twice every game.

Werder Bremen for example actually played better than Juve over both legs, but still lost. thats just their style.

think of a juve as a chelsea team in a 4-4-2 formation. ****ty play but the opponents open up to them as they get fustrated giving away easy goals. I didn't see the match, but from the impression i got, we pressured them so much they couldn't even take advantage of the gaps we opened up for them.

if you make the top team in any league look like little girls on the pitch, not to mention the Serie A, its a sign that the team has done well. not 6's and 7's. that is unless you were one of those kids in school that achieved a 60% and felt satisfied.
 

Smartly Dressed Morris

Well-Known Member
Well what do you know - we are know second favourites to win the champions league :D

Here are the latest odds

Barcelona 6/4
Arsenal 9/2
AC Milan 11/2
Inter 6/1
Lyon 15/2
Juventus 14/1 (lol)
Villarreal 18/1
Benfica 25/1
 

YuenBiaoFan

Established Member
asajoseph said:
Fact is, two seasons ago we were undefeated and last year we were comfortably second and won the FA Cup. Now we're 6th, battling Sp**s, Bolton and Blackburn for a Champions League spot, and miles behind a Manchester Utd side that had a woeful start to the season - despite our brilliance in Europe this year, you can't argue that something hasn't gone wrong this year at least.

Wenger: It wasn't my target tonight to justify selling Patrick. He is a tremendous player and you never lose a player like that without suffering a bit, but another team was born and is growing slowly. Football is like that
 

gunnerGH

Established Member
lehmann - 6
flamini - 8
senderos - 8
toure - 8
eboue - 7
reyes - 7
pires - 7
gilberto - 7
fabregas - 9
hleb - 7
henry - 8

My mom:fabregas
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
The euphoria of last night has now faded away to be replaced by, well, the euphoria of Wednesday afternoon, rubbing Sp**s fans faces in it, talking incessantly about last night with fellow Gooners and I now feel placed to give my ratings.

Lehmann- Nothing to do really (surely an indication of how well we played against the runaway italian league leaders) but did what he had to do without drama- 6

Eboue- Phenomenal first half, felt he dropped off a little in the second, but great performance defensively and made some good runs down the right- 9

Flamini- Looks more at home at left back than at centre mid. On this showing, young Ash may not be needed after all..- 8

Toure- Gets better and better and better. What a star. Positive and proactive with everything he did, and what a tackle that was!- 9

Senderos- Outshone a little by the energy of Toure, nonetheless the "mistake a game" merchants can surely have no complaints here. -7

Hleb- A little frustrating last night, gave the ball away a lot, held onto the ball too long. Nonetheless his ability to keep the ball has been key over the last few european games, had a hand in the second goal- 7.

Fabregas- Great goal, great assist (he knew EXACTLY where Henry was) and a great performance. Who the f'ck is Pat Vieira?-9

Gilberto- The "wall" was solid last night. Still gives the ball far too much for me, but worked hard and did well- 7

Pires- Great stuff from him, was superb all night. Obviously the stand out moment from him was the tackle on Vieira which started the move for the first goal.- 8

Reyes- Full of running, I only wish most of his runs ended in a pass, a cross, or a shot, rather than the endless free kicks. I'm sure Vieira knew what he was doing when he hacked him. However, he played well last night, seems to be cutting much of the "blind alley" stuff out. -7

van Persie- Too little time to make an impression so I won't rate him.

EDIT: I've left someone out..

Thierry Henry- Doesn't care about the club? Big game choker? His performance lasst night looked to me like a big "f'ck you" to his doubters (specifically those doubters of italian origin I guess). Top pass to Cesc, superbly taken goal, and he even brought out the afterburners to roast his friend and former captain. Constant menace. -9

We made the champions elect in Italy make rather ordinary last night, and whatever individual ratings I've given, the team was f'cking superb last night.

And sabre, I know you hate 4-5-1, we all know you do, but credit where it's due, Wenger got it right and once we got past a fraught ten minutes, we were superb. It isn't the formation's fault we didn't score more goals.
 

kel varnsen

Established Member
RocktheCasbah said:
Reyes- Full of running, I only wish most of his runs ended in a pass, a cross, or a shot, rather than the endless free kicks. I'm sure Vieira knew what he was doing when he hacked him. However, he played well last night, seems to be cutting much of the "blind alley" stuff out. -7

i think reyes played fairly well last night. sure, he hanged on the ball a bit too long, and was consequently fouled, but he did drift into the middle a lot. that is the only way he can be our left wing, if he starts to move off the ball like pires once did. drifting inwards, leaving space for henry and the left back. if he is no longer considered a forward, than he should at least be allowed to roam around a bit. maybe even switch sides with hleb during matches...
 

Gunner4Eva

Established Member
Loved seeing Gilberto get stuck into Ibrahimovic in the second half. It looked as though he was challenging him on the field (not to fisty-cuffs of course), at least thats what I gathered from the hand gestures and lip reading skills I have learnt.

It certainly got Gilberto fired up, that's for sure. That's what I like to see.

As for ratings....can't be stuffed. All the players played good. That's it. Although I think SKY SPORTS rating of Cannavaro (5 or 6) was way wrong. I thought he was their best outfield player by a mile, which really doesn't say much, but gotta give the man his credit.
 

Arsenal Quotes

A player's true character is in how he plays and not in his social life. You can hide your real personality in your social life, You cannot on the field.

Arsène Wenger

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