Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 , SS1

[redanddread]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

I can't imagine what the forum was like when Skrtel's goal went in....

My 10 cents worth:

1. The Debuchy/Chambers switcheroo, although totally unexpected wasn't a total failure and was done (I am assuming) to combat Sterling's pace up front. The Chambers/Per/Flamini trimumverate was just too slow to match up with Liverpool's pace in the centre of attack. Would we have been able to attack more up the right with Debuchy at RB, maybe, but we had so little possession I doubt it made a difference.

2. Undone at a set piece again! We had defended them pretty well during the course of the game but not the first time an opponent has gotten a running headstart and scored-Both Monreal & Chambers saw the danger but nothing was done. Per's a *****.

3. Our midfield was all at sea today and as a result we had little possession. The Ox was anonymous-I can only assume he wasn't match fit. Cazorla played well today though. Flamini was using his finger to plug the hole in the dyke.

4. The fabled "handbrake"! It was on and for sure the team was conscious of the battering they took up there last season. As a result in the 1st half the defense (led by Per) sat too deep and so the team was too spaced apart. Last season's result definitely affected yesterday's performance imo.

5. Welbeck & Alexis were ****e today also.

6. We played badly against a rapidly improving Liverpool and came away with a 2-2 draw-not all negative. However, the concession of that late equalizer takes the gloss off a battling but limited performance and does little to ease the feeling that we just can't defend when it really counts.

7. Wenger needs to go into the market to buy a new CB and a DM. Per looks a busted flush and no top team will win things with a DLP/DM of Arteta/Flamini.

8. Liverpool were toothless and thankfully so. However, Rodger's formation 3-4-3, caused us all sorts of problems but more, imo, due to the "handbrake" affect as the team was overly cautious in their approach and as a result our lines were stretched and our midfield was never in position to support our attack nor help out in defense (particularly in the 1st half)

9. Debuchy schooling Skrtel at the far post for the equalizer was superb, as was Giroud's goal. Those that said he can't score against the big teams may have to revise their opinion of him.

10. I'm still at a loss to understand how a team renowned for it's possession game can so often cough up possession when under pressure, defending a lead. I've seen it all too often where we constantly give the ball away and give away needless free kicks & corners, where with more composure on the ball and a few extra passes we could nullify our opponents threat.

 

[Song Billong]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Is it worth analysing this performance?

Same mistakes, same confort zone, and same garbage on Arsenal Fan Tv. Our "Who am I" buddy calls this a positive result.

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdwv_i8ay0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdwv_i8ay0</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I will call out those who asked us to grow a pair, "we will blitz them", "we will have too much for them" "Silly paranoia gripping the forum. We usually dominate Liverpool".

you see, some people get carried away and forget we have a tactically clueless manager, so all those game we should realistically win turn in to draws or losses...

 

[redanddread]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Give Liverpool credit also for playing well, although we "allowed" them to do so. That they played so well and still needed a last minute equalizer, albeit with 10 men, indicates that they have huge problems also. If we had played so well and only eked out a last minute draw our forum would have gone as equally nutz as it has today.

This was never going to be an easy game-never has been.

They can't defend when it really counts and neither can we.

 

[celestis]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

In all honestly even if when we have beat them the last few times they have really harried us . I thought you could see we worked hard in our press which resulted in turnovers . We had a non existent midfield with the only one that was fit being flamini . We fought damn hard and I'm happy with that.

 

[redanddread]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Oh and Rodgers is a ****. He's saying that Alexis dived for the freekick that led to our equalizer. It was a clear trip by Gerrard. Anyway, he's trying to brush over the fact that his team can't ****ing defend properly-he's so **** at times.

 

[HollandGooner]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Mertesacker has no place in this team anymore, on the base of this season's performances.

With all respect but we need Koscielny more then we need Mertesacker, he has been average when Koscielny is not playing, Koscielny is a WC defender if you ask me.


Mertesacker deserved to be dropped indeed.

 

[onetowatch]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Agree with pretty much all of redanddreads 10 cents worth.

At the end of the day, all teams concede from set pieces and all teams concede late winners/equalisers. Chelsea let leads drop at Etihad and Old toilet this season and Anfield not too long ago (Suarez bit Ivanovic, then scored the equaliser). It happens.

A point at Anfield isn't the worst result. What is worrying though is the level of our performance after we had more than a week off. The injuries don't help in this regard but the lack of confidence and authority in our game is the most concerning.

Shout out to Szcscezny btw who was, bar that one moment when he came out to get the ball and missed it, superb. Had it been Courtois or De Gea, the sky commentators would've been jizzing all over our screens. And talking of them, Gary Neville is a ****ing manc **** bastard.

 

[BobP]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Here we go:

Liverpool's 343 caused us problems, the main issue revolving around who was going to be picking up the wing backs? The wing backs were present in the midfield line meaning if our "wingers" were to track back we would lack definitive presence up front and if our fullbacks were to push up to confront them they would vacate space in behind them. We never really dealt with the issue and on numerous occasions Santi and Ox would spread out wide to confront the wing backs, this left Flamini totally isolated and created acres of space for Lallana and Coutinho, who are both traditionally attacking midfielders and were playing on either side of Sterling, to tuck in and wreak havoc in that zone 14 area which was left completely bare at times. This issue was further exasperated by the defensive line retreating as a result of the limitations of Mertesacker thus ceding and creating even more space for Liverpool's tucked in attacking midfielders to create danger. This particular issue has been evident all season, we press, we fail to be vertically compact to eliminate space for circumventing of the press and thus allow the opposition runners to have a clear run at our bare defense, all down to Mertesackers limitations and Wenger's insistence on playing in a particular way regardless of the personnel available.

Our attacking impotence was, I believe, down to a complete lack of a bridge between the attack and midfield, Oxlade and Cazorla were both being pinned back and were unable to create that bridge, a solution to that may have been to have placed an attacking midfielder on the wing so as to create such a bridge but our injuries severely limited the options available to us. If Ox had been fit he might have been able to fulfill that role, Cazorla certainly did at times and that's where we were at our most dangerous. There was simply to much space for the midfield to cover.

I also wasn't happy with the way our attack was set up to play, instead of remaining so narrow, it would have been much more fruitful if in particular Welbeck and Sanchez had tried to stretch the Liverpool back 3 creating space in between the channels for midfield runners to run into, would have really tested the defensive aptitude of a possibly suspect Markovic and Henderson in positions unfamiliar to them.

Wenger's was tactically out thought by Rodgers well and truly, it was clear for all to see.

We unfairly scapegoat Mertesacker and Flamini, something I am definitely guilty of in the heat of the moment. Although they haven't been at their best this season Wenger is exasperating their limitations.

Flamini should not be starting for us by any stretch of the imagination, he is at best a role player and Mertesacker is simply not conducive to the style of play which Wenger is trying to achieve.

 

[redanddread]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Agree with pretty much all of redanddreads 10 cents worth.

At the end of the day, all teams concede from set pieces and all teams concede late winners/equalisers. Chelsea let leads drop at Etihad and Old toilet this season and Anfield not too long ago (Suarez bit Ivanovic, then scored the equaliser). It happens.

A point at Anfield isn't the worst result. What is worrying though is the level of our performance after we had more than a week off. The injuries don't help in this regard but the lack of confidence and authority in our game is the most concerning.

Shout out to Szcscezny btw who was, bar that one moment when he came out to get the ball and missed it, superb. Had it been Courtois or De Gea, the sky commentators would've been jizzing all over our screens. And talking of them, Gary Neville is a ******* manc **** bastard.

That's what has everyone so pissed.

A point at Anfield is never a bad thing but our overall lack of composure with the ball and our porous midfield was worrying.

We have real issues with teams that press effectively, high up the pitch. We saw it at Dortmund earlier this season. Our midfield needs to be smarter & braver. It's in games like this where Cesc would have come to the fore imo.

You mean the moment Sterling handballed the ball past Chezzers.......he had a solid game though.

 

[BobP]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Liverpool got into the same positions time and time again and had it not been for their profligacy we would have lost quite comfortably.

 

[HollandGooner]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Here we go:

Liverpool's 343 caused us problems, the main issue revolving around who was going to be picking up the wing backs? The wing backs were present in the midfield line meaning if our "wingers" were to track back we would lack definitive presence up front and if our fullbacks were to push up to confront them they would vacate space in behind them. We never really dealt with the issue and on numerous occasions Santi and Ox would spread out wide to confront the wing backs, this left Flamini totally isolated and created acres of space for Lallana and Coutinho, who are both traditionally attacking midfielders and were playing on either side of Sterling, to tuck in and wreak havoc in that zone 14 area which was left completely bare at times. This issue was further exasperated by the defensive line retreating as a result of the limitations of Mertesacker thus ceding and creating even more space for Liverpool's tucked in attacking midfielders to create danger. This particular issue has been evident all season, we press, we fail to be vertically compact to eliminate space for circumventing of the press and thus allow the opposition runners to have a clear run at our bare defense, all down to Mertesackers limitations and Wenger's insistence on playing in a particular way regardless of the personnel available.

Our attacking impotence was, I believe, down to a complete lack of a bridge between the attack and midfield, Oxlade and Cazorla were both being pinned back and were unable to create that bridge, a solution to that may have been to have placed an attacking midfielder on the wing so as to create such a bridge but our injuries severely limited the options available to us. If Ox had been fit he might have been able to fulfill that role, Cazorla certainly did at times and that's where we were at our most dangerous. There was simply to much space for the midfield to cover.

I also wasn't happy with the way our attack was set up to play, instead of remaining so narrow, it would have been much more fruitful if in particular Welbeck and Sanchez had tried to stretch the Liverpool back 3 creating space in between the channels for midfield runners to run into, would have really tested the defensive aptitude of a possibly suspect Markovic and Henderson in positions unfamiliar to them.

Wenger's was tactically out thought by Rodgers well and truly, it was clear for all to see.

We unfairly scapegoat Mertesacker and Flamini, something I am definitely guilty of in the heat of the moment. Although they haven't been at their best this season Wenger is exasperating their limitations.

Flamini should not be starting for us by any stretch of the imagination, he is at best a role player and Mertesacker is simply not conducive to the style of play which Wenger is trying to achieve.

I agreed but when you are playing against a 3-4-3 you need your fullbacks to push up on the pitch so the midfielders can stay central, to make it 4 vs 4 . it isnt that difficult isnt it?

 

[HollandGooner]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Here we go:

Liverpool's 343 caused us problems, the main issue revolving around who was going to be picking up the wing backs? The wing backs were present in the midfield line meaning if our "wingers" were to track back we would lack definitive presence up front and if our fullbacks were to push up to confront them they would vacate space in behind them. We never really dealt with the issue and on numerous occasions Santi and Ox would spread out wide to confront the wing backs, this left Flamini totally isolated and created acres of space for Lallana and Coutinho, who are both traditionally attacking midfielders and were playing on either side of Sterling, to tuck in and wreak havoc in that zone 14 area which was left completely bare at times. This issue was further exasperated by the defensive line retreating as a result of the limitations of Mertesacker thus ceding and creating even more space for Liverpool's tucked in attacking midfielders to create danger. This particular issue has been evident all season, we press, we fail to be vertically compact to eliminate space for circumventing of the press and thus allow the opposition runners to have a clear run at our bare defense, all down to Mertesackers limitations and Wenger's insistence on playing in a particular way regardless of the personnel available.

Our attacking impotence was, I believe, down to a complete lack of a bridge between the attack and midfield, Oxlade and Cazorla were both being pinned back and were unable to create that bridge, a solution to that may have been to have placed an attacking midfielder on the wing so as to create such a bridge but our injuries severely limited the options available to us. If Ox had been fit he might have been able to fulfill that role, Cazorla certainly did at times and that's where we were at our most dangerous. There was simply to much space for the midfield to cover.

I also wasn't happy with the way our attack was set up to play, instead of remaining so narrow, it would have been much more fruitful if in particular Welbeck and Sanchez had tried to stretch the Liverpool back 3 creating space in between the channels for midfield runners to run into, would have really tested the defensive aptitude of a possibly suspect Markovic and Henderson in positions unfamiliar to them.

Wenger's was tactically out thought by Rodgers well and truly, it was clear for all to see.

We unfairly scapegoat Mertesacker and Flamini, something I am definitely guilty of in the heat of the moment. Although they haven't been at their best this season Wenger is exasperating their limitations.

Flamini should not be starting for us by any stretch of the imagination, he is at best a role player and Mertesacker is simply not conducive to the style of play which Wenger is trying to achieve.

I agreed but when you are playing against a 3-4-3 you need your fullbacks to push up on the pitch so the midfielders can stay central, to make it 4 vs 4 . it isnt that difficult isnt it?

 

[BobP]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

But then what about the space in behind the fullbacks, Coutinho and Lallana could have just as easily been instructed by Rodgers to make use of that space after he had seen what we were doing to solve the issue of the wing backs.

 

[BobP]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Football is so much like chess, Rodgers set up a tactical dilemma for Wenger who did not adequately respond thus playing into the hands of Liverpool who exploited our failure to respond effectively.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

I think our lack of midfielders who like to get on the ball was telling, no way we'd have been dominated by that Liverpool side with Arteta, Ramsey and Özil in midfield with possibly Ox on one side and Alexis on the other for example.

Besides, it doesn't matter the reason we didn't win was due to poor defending from a set piece with 2 minutes of added time to go, Liverpools pseudo-domination had not really much to do with it.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Is it worth analysing this performance?

Same mistakes, same confort zone, and same garbage on Arsenal Fan Tv. Our "Who am I" buddy calls this a positive result.

<a class="postlink" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdwv_i8ay0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZdwv_i8ay0</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I will call out those who asked us to grow a pair, "we will blitz them", "we will have too much for them" "Silly paranoia gripping the forum. We usually dominate Liverpool".

Arsenal Fan Tv are really laughable the likes of Claude and this guy "who i'm I" becoming famous cuz of it they know nothing about football with all respect of them if we win they will cheer the team and Wenger know best etc.. ignoring the performance, when we draw or lose they will start the Wenger out rubbish. i want to find some one talk sense in Arsenal Fan Tv i just can't find one maybe this guy Robbie is interviewing people who are very emotional.

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Here we go:

Liverpool's 343 caused us problems, the main issue revolving around who was going to be picking up the wing backs? The wing backs were present in the midfield line meaning if our "wingers" were to track back we would lack definitive presence up front and if our fullbacks were to push up to confront them they would vacate space in behind them. We never really dealt with the issue and on numerous occasions Santi and Ox would spread out wide to confront the wing backs, this left Flamini totally isolated and created acres of space for Lallana and Coutinho, who are both traditionally attacking midfielders and were playing on either side of Sterling, to tuck in and wreak havoc in that zone 14 area which was left completely bare at times. This issue was further exasperated by the defensive line retreating as a result of the limitations of Mertesacker thus ceding and creating even more space for Liverpool's tucked in attacking midfielders to create danger. This particular issue has been evident all season, we press, we fail to be vertically compact to eliminate space for circumventing of the press and thus allow the opposition runners to have a clear run at our bare defense, all down to Mertesackers limitations and Wenger's insistence on playing in a particular way regardless of the personnel available.

Our attacking impotence was, I believe, down to a complete lack of a bridge between the attack and midfield, Oxlade and Cazorla were both being pinned back and were unable to create that bridge, a solution to that may have been to have placed an attacking midfielder on the wing so as to create such a bridge but our injuries severely limited the options available to us. If Ox had been fit he might have been able to fulfill that role, Cazorla certainly did at times and that's where we were at our most dangerous. There was simply to much space for the midfield to cover.

I also wasn't happy with the way our attack was set up to play, instead of remaining so narrow, it would have been much more fruitful if in particular Welbeck and Sanchez had tried to stretch the Liverpool back 3 creating space in between the channels for midfield runners to run into, would have really tested the defensive aptitude of a possibly suspect Markovic and Henderson in positions unfamiliar to them.

Wenger's was tactically out thought by Rodgers well and truly, it was clear for all to see.

We unfairly scapegoat Mertesacker and Flamini, something I am definitely guilty of in the heat of the moment. Although they haven't been at their best this season Wenger is exasperating their limitations.

Flamini should not be starting for us by any stretch of the imagination, he is at best a role player and Mertesacker is simply not conducive to the style of play which Wenger is trying to achieve.

Excellent summary BobP. This is how I saw it too. Wenger is not setting his teams up to protect the obvious frailties of his personnel nor to address the questions posed by the opposition. It's a case of "as you were" every week and I find it exasperating that a man of his experience cannot see that our problem stems from a lack of off-the-ball prowess.

 

[Big Poppa]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

I think our lack of midfielders who like to get on the ball was telling, no way we'd have been dominated by that Liverpool side with Arteta, Ramsey and Özil in midfield with possibly Ox on one side and Alexis on the other for example.

Besides, it doesn't matter the reason we didn't win was due to poor defending from a set piece with 2 minutes of added time to go, Liverpools pseudo-domination had not really much to do with it.

You clearly didn't see the 5-1 defeat did you?

We had more than enough players who like to "get on the ball", but in games like this you don't just "get on the ball" need to win it back from the opposition. Our problem is we have too many of those (hence the reason we ball watch rather than mark effectively) and too few with tactical, defensive nous.

This is competitive football, if you prod your toe into a 50-50 and don't know how to use your head, chest or tackle against people that are bigger, stronger and faster then you will achieve nothing with your fancy footballers. One of the best chances we had in the game came from Coquelin winning the ball from Coutinho as Liverpool were on the attack.

 

[celestis]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

Just think there is waaay to much analysis going round , we had too many players that couldn't control a ball , Welbeck , Ox , Chambers even Alexis . All the tactics in the world aren't going to change that.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

Re: Premier League: Liverpool v Arsenal - 21/12/14, 16:00 ,

I think our lack of midfielders who like to get on the ball was telling, no way we'd have been dominated by that Liverpool side with Arteta, Ramsey and Özil in midfield with possibly Ox on one side and Alexis on the other for example.

Besides, it doesn't matter the reason we didn't win was due to poor defending from a set piece with 2 minutes of added time to go, Liverpools pseudo-domination had not really much to do with it.

You clearly didn't see the 5-1 defeat did you?

We had more than enough players who like to "get on the ball", but in games like this you don't just "get on the ball" need to win it back from the opposition. Our problem is we have too many of those (hence the reason we ball watch rather than mark effectively) and too few with tactical, defensive nous.

This is competitive football, if you prod your toe into a 50-50 and don't know how to use your head, chest or tackle against people that are bigger, stronger and faster then you will achieve nothing with your fancy footballers. One of the best chances we had in the game came from Coquelin winning the ball from Coutinho as Liverpool were on the attack.

We did have a back up midfield though

Back up DM
Back up B2B
Back up CAM

If we started with Arteta and Ramsey it'd be different.