Loss Premier League: Manchester City 4 - 1 Arsenal | Wednesday 26th, April | KO: 20:00 BST | BT Sport

Last night was not good enough and we must not repeat the mistakes we made if we must get a result here. Even a draw will be good enough.

We just need to abandon our principle but you know Mikel will never do that. He's so obsessed with winning his own philosophy rather trying to be pragmatic.

Even Pep sacrificed possession when they came to the Emirates earlier in the year. We have to pragmatic. We have to protect Holding like a group of wildebeest would protect their youngest calf.

Prediction

Man city 0-1 Arsenal

COYG!

 

[Rex Stone]

Every time we play them it’s almost always an embarrassing non contest.

How many times have Sp*rs punked them again and again even under Pep?

Feel like every other big 6 team does them in but with us you might as well bet on a 3 goal loss as standard.

 

[Clrnc]

The other tactic he speaks about, switching roles with Haaland was simple, yet also so brilliant.

Yes, Guardiola had a state backing him, but I think he’s the best coach in the world, probably by a gap. Guy comes up with so many ideas, in every aspect of play.

Agreed. Swap the teams around and he will probably find a way to win for Arsenal at the Ettihad yesterday.

 

[14Henry]

The key thing is, Pep's key players can change tactics, style and position instantly, so they would have adjusted. We've got some very good players, but most are more limited in that flexibility. We could have sat deeper with a double pivot and more conventional left back, and tried to counter, but we still would have lacked the legs in midfield and physical strength up front to really make that work against the City team that played last night - their most physically dominant and hardest working possible 11.

Haaland can play on the shoulder, he can be a target man and both to ELITE levels. KDB can play 6, 8, 10, support striker or even wide. Gundogan 6, 8 or 10. Bernado Silva - anywhere but centre back or centre forward. Akanji has played 4 positions this year. Stones has played 3 totally different roles this season (after years with Pep his finally hit his potential this year).

How many of our guys can play multiple different roles to the same level? Xhaka can do a few, but not at the level of any of City's players. White a couple (but no Tomi limits our options). Zinchenko a couple, but wouldn't have helped the situaition. Moving Saka wouldn't have helped. Jesus can play wide, but then we only have Eddie at CF.

Pep outsmarted Arteta again for sure, but having better players in almost every position, most of whom at the absolute peak of their careers, is a big help too!

I don't disagree that having better players will help. It will.

My issue is that, as we saw last year against Sp**s, it was obvious that what Mikel was going to do wasn't going to work.

Hence why everyone and their dog on this forum said 4 3 3 with Holding isn't going to work here. It's why on Sky Sports and all the other media outlets there was a discussion about our tactics.

This isn't hindsight. It's foresight.

And it seems that Mikel will not be flexible in his formations. That's all I was saying. And I stand by it.

If you go and look at my pre match thread posts. I said a back 5 with Tierney LCB to limit the space both across and behind.

I said Trossard over Jesus because I knew chances would be limited and I believe Trossard to be more clinical both inside the box and outside if we were limited to long distance chance.

The one thing you cannot do is give Haaland and KDB big spaces between midfield and defence and thats what we did.

Pep knew what Mikel was going to do and exploited it. Yet Mikel didn't think ahead of Pep. City will struggle to get an easier game this season as other teams will sit deep and defend. Yes they may lose 1-0 like Palace did. But if you only concede maybe 1 goal against City you are in a match 90+ minutes. One random attack or mistake and you take something. 3-0 down after what an hour? No chance.

 

[celestis]

Every time we play them it’s almost always an embarrassing non contest.

How many times have Sp*rs punked them again and again even under Pep?

Feel like every other big 6 team does them in but with us you might as well bet on a 3 goal loss as standard.

Last year when they won 2-1 we actually dominated them to be fair , we neither pressed nor employed a deep block .... no one fouled De Bruyne , Grealish simply running through. Argh I don't want to talk about it .
To me a few have lost their places . Bring Trossard and Nelson , they deserve to show what they are made off .

 

[14Henry]

I did question whether my assertion was wrong, so did look up your profile, and you've had so many posts slagging off arteta in the last 2 months.
If my impression is inaccurate, and I missed lots of Arteta love, I apologise, but it certainly reflects your posting in recent times and (as you say) historically.

Quote me some of my posts from 2 months ago were I have slagged Arteta off and post them. I want to see what you define as slag off.

 

[lomekian]

It doesn’t matter that Trossard and Jorginho have only been here 3 months, it’s been those 3 months we’ve needed them and that’s why we bought them in Jan. Both played well when they first came in, play well when they get subbed on and generally been better than those who start ahead of them. You can’t really say they are part of a poor squad tbh.

Teams worked out how to play against the Inverted LB system and Zinchenko has been poor for a lot of games now, should have brought Tierney in but let him play his own game. He’s also a good LCB, if Arteta could change the system.

The squad might be light with a few injuries but my point is just that we have overall a very good quality squad but Arteta just doesn’t use it.

Problem is, Trossard is great, but is he better than Jesus, Saka or Martinelli, who until yesterday have been incredibly productive as a trio? He's got decent minutes for the most part. My only big complaint about his usage is that he should have started ahead of FV vs Southampton (though if Ramsdale doesn't have a 30 second brain fart, it wouldn't have mattered).

Jorginho needs to be used as a double Pivot, because he can't do the Partey role against anyone with legs in midfield. Should be getting off the bench more, and probably should have started last night.

Re Zinchenko and inverted LB, agree his form has dropped off, but I think that's in part Saliba's absence changing our distances. Agree Tierney should have got more time recently. Too late coming on vs Liverpool, maybe should have played last night. Was poor in the inverted role vs West Ham, but frankly if we don't decide to try to hold what we have at 2-0 it wouldn't have been a factor. That game was down to the midfield becoming super passive at 2-0.

I agree that Arteta should rotate more, but bar those 3 guys, the drop off to the rest of the subs has been too high this season. 3-4 good signings this summer and we should be in a place where Arteta has no excuses for any lack of rotation.

 

[BergMan]

Bayern played much better against City. They posed much more problems than we did.
And I felt City took mercy on us after 3-0. They easily could’ve scored 6 or more.

 

[lomekian]

I don't disagree that having better players will help. It will.

My issue is that, as we saw last year against Sp**s, it was obvious that what Mikel was going to do wasn't going to work.

Hence why everyone and their dog on this forum said 4 3 3 with Holding isn't going to work here. It's why on Sky Sports and all the other media outlets there was a discussion about our tactics.

This isn't hindsight. It's foresight.

And it seems that Mikel will not be flexible in his formations. That's all I was saying. And I stand by it.

If you go and look at my pre match thread posts. I said a back 5 with Tierney LCB to limit the space both across and behind.

I said Trossard over Jesus because I knew chances would be limited and I believe Trossard to be more clinical both inside the box and outside if we were limited to long distance chance.

The one thing you cannot do is give Haaland and KDB big spaces between midfield and defence and thats what we did.

Pep knew what Mikel was going to do and exploited it. Yet Mikel didn't think ahead of Pep. City will struggle to get an easier game this season as other teams will sit deep and defend. Yes they may lose 1-0 like Palace did. But if you only concede maybe 1 goal against City you are in a match 90+ minutes. One random attack or mistake and you take something. 3-0 down after what an hour? No chance.

We all thought Holding might get murdered. ITs why Tomi's injury is such a *****, as is the fact that Kiwior looks terrified at the moment. Meant we had no other option at CB, unless we moved 3 -4 other player around to facilitate White at CB. Back 5 with Tierney? Who plays RWB? Would Zinchenko invert at LWB? Who do you take out? With Trossard ahead of Jesus with us sitting deep, who is winning duels or stretching their back line? Who can support from midfield?

We don't have the players at the moment to play that system effectively - agree it would have been a sensible option with different personnel.

I do however think 4-2-3-1 with Tierney rather than Zinchenko would have been a better option. Felt it pre-match too. Still think we would have lost, but it would have cut those spaces down. A big issue is the lack of players who can cover ground in midfield, and the lack of players who can comfortably interchange multiple roles. Such a shame AMN could never find the consistency of focus for this level, as his physical gifts and technical potential would be amazing if realised fully.

If we add the likes of Rice/Caicedo & Kudus/someone similar (and maybe a striker with more physical presence in a dream world) and replace those who will depart in the summer, we will have so much more tactical flexibility, competitiveness in duels, running power and ability to play multiple systems game to game and in game. Then we can really see how smart Arteta is tactically, because he'd have the tools to change things as required.

 

[LittleMo]

Problem is, Trossard is great, but is he better than Jesus, Saka or Martinelli, who until yesterday have been incredibly productive as a trio?

Yes. Look form matters, it’s not about who is the better player overall but who is playing well at the moment, and sorry but yes, Trossard has been better than Jesus and possibly Saka right now.

Re Zinchenko and inverted LB, agree his form has dropped off, but I think that's in part Saliba's absence changing our distances.

He has been off form for ages, well before Saliba got injured. The truth is that the drop off in form across the team in terms of quality of play, has been the case for a couple of months. We were still winning games though, so it didn’t matter or was less noticed.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Mate your barking up the wrong tree. I was Arteta out about 2 years ago. Since then I've backed him and he's proven me wrong. Something I've said about half a dozen times. Esepcially when I tag HairSpray in it or mention his name.

You've made an incorrect judgement. You've ran with it, and now you are too proud to say you're wrong.

I think Arteta is a brilliant manager. But you can think that and see his faults at the same time. It isn't exclusively one or the other.

You really are trying to bullshit the forum now. You ***** and moan about Arteta and players constantly. And don't ****ing ask for examples, you know what you are up to!

 

[Rex Stone]

We all thought Holding might get murdered. ITs why Tomi's injury is such a *****, as is the fact that Kiwior looks terrified at the moment. Meant we had no other option at CB, unless we moved 3 -4 other player around to facilitate White at CB. Back 5 with Tierney? Who plays RWB? Would Zinchenko invert at LWB? Who do you take out? With Trossard ahead of Jesus with us sitting deep, who is winning duels or stretching their back line? Who can support from midfield?

We don't have the players at the moment to play that system effectively - agree it would have been a sensible option with different personnel.

I do however think 4-2-3-1 with Tierney rather than Zinchenko would have been a better option. Felt it pre-match too. Still think we would have lost, but it would have cut those spaces down. A big issue is the lack of players who can cover ground in midfield, and the lack of players who can comfortably interchange multiple roles. Such a shame AMN could never find the consistency of focus for this level, as his physical gifts and technical potential would be amazing if realised fully.

If we add the likes of Rice/Caicedo & Kudus/someone similar (and maybe a striker with more physical presence in a dream world) and replace those who will depart in the summer, we will have so much more tactical flexibility, competitiveness in duels, running power and ability to play multiple systems game to game and in game. Then we can really see how smart Arteta is tactically, because he'd have the tools to change things as required.

All those options probably suck as well. A back 5 with Kiwior and 10 men camped behind the ball is redundant as soon as they score.

As soon as we went that way at Anfield we conceded, the players didn’t look comfortable in the system.

Tierney at RB is just not ideal either. We need another defender in the summer.

Maybe a top shelf RB because Tomiyasu mugs you off if you count on him even if he’s a good player.

 

[lomekian]

Last year when they won 2-1 we actually dominated them to be fair , we neither pressed nor employed a deep block .... no one fouled De Bruyne , Grealish simply running through. Argh I don't want to talk about it .
To me a few have lost their places . Bring Trossard and Nelson , they deserve to show what they are made off .

We should have beaten in the cup this year too

 

[lomekian]

Quote me some of my posts from 2 months ago were I have slagged Arteta off and post them. I want to see what you define as slag off.

God I really can't be arsed to go through them again! We shall agree to differ and I will concede that my impression may well have been inaccurate, based on a themed sample rather than a bigger picture totality - its easy to get impressions based on a period of time or a particular discussion threads, so I apologise if my view was formed more by coincidence than the broader reality.

Maybe an over-reaction from me too as quite a few on here are relentlessly miserable, critical and unrealistic, and it does my head in. I'm perhaps too supportive of the players and management, but I hate the way so many talk is if operating as the absolute elite levels of an uber competitive field is somehow piss easy and that broader context is irrelevant.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

Tomi injury didn't help either we could have gone back to last season back 4 but the problem Arteta do keep playing high line with holding it keep affecting us.

Arteta is stubborn he won't change a thing but we conceded 11 last 4 games this is not good enough even tho half of it against best tow teams last season but something need to change we don't look comfortable and we look so open

 

[Kobi]

The Holding/Saliba situation is exacerbated by the fact that the way we play means he is the middle centre back, our most important distributor when we have possession and the one who is marking the centre forward when possession gets turned over quickly.
So it’s fine when it’s Saliba but when he is out the worst defender at the club suddenly becomes the key defender in the team because Arteta is unable/unwilling to change anything other than like for like.
If we had mirrored the way City play

……….……Jesus…………….

MartinellI…Xhaka..Ødegaard..Saka

……..Zinchenko….Partey…..

….Tierney….Gabriel…White

It’s literally exactly the same as we play now with the ball, just it would need Partey to do what Rodri does and occasionally drop in to make up a four, Tierney plays that position for Scotland and Zinchenko plays in the same position he does now. Surely that wouldn’t have been any worse?

 

[lomekian]

Yes. Look form matters, it’s not about who is the better player overall but who is playing well at the moment, and sorry but yes, Trossard has been better than Jesus and possibly Saka right now.



He has been off form for ages, well before Saliba got injured. The truth is that the drop off in form across the team in terms of quality of play, has been the case for a couple of months. We were still winning games though, so it didn’t matter or was less noticed.

When would you drop Jesus? Had 4 in 3 and prior to Southampton and came off early in that game. Saka had a goal and an assist vs Southampton and had been very good v Liverpool.

Our attackers has not been where the issues have been. But yes, he should have got more minutes.

Agree team performance has been in decline since the world cup tbh - but think its only recently that Zinchenko has stopped providing enough on the ball to overlook defensive weakness. I would have played Tierney last night (though Tierney has been killed by City every time he's played them too!)

 

[Gunner D]

I am with you mate! But nothing gained in feeling too miserable! Time to dust ourselves down and get going again! We are still top of the league! Don't forget that!

Just hoping Man City can have a few slip ups. I hate that club.

Just gutted we’ve come so far to then seemingly throw it all away. But yeah like you said, we’re still top of the league and it’s not over till it’s over!

 

[BergMan]

I did something different in this thread which was abandon my usual positive optimistic self and be negative instead hoping it will make a difference. Didn’t work. Note to self: The supernatural doesn’t exist.

 

[lomekian]

All those options probably suck as well. A back 5 with Kiwior and 10 men camped behind the ball is redundant as soon as they score.

As soon as we went that way at Anfield we conceded, the players didn’t look comfortable in the system.

Tierney at RB is just not ideal either. We need another defender in the summer.

Maybe a top shelf RB because Tomiyasu mugs you off if you count on him even if he’s a good player.

Looks like we are still in for the young Spanish full back, so that will help.
Hopefully after the summer Kiwior will have had a preseason and be settled rather than looking terrified. Sadly there's been no low stakes games to ease him in.

 

[Penn_]

Game was over in the first five, to beat City playing our own game would’ve required everyone fit and a monumental effort.

Prime Mourinho would’ve rocked up backed the central areas and escaped with the win or a point.

That would’ve required dropping Ode for Jorginho, possibly even Jesus. So never likely to happen.

Hell we kick started ESR time in a big game. Give Nelson a go with Gabi on the counter.