Loss Premier League: Manchester City 4 - 1 Arsenal | Wednesday 26th, April | KO: 20:00 BST | BT Sport

Last night was not good enough and we must not repeat the mistakes we made if we must get a result here. Even a draw will be good enough.

We just need to abandon our principle but you know Mikel will never do that. He's so obsessed with winning his own philosophy rather trying to be pragmatic.

Even Pep sacrificed possession when they came to the Emirates earlier in the year. We have to pragmatic. We have to protect Holding like a group of wildebeest would protect their youngest calf.

Prediction

Man city 0-1 Arsenal

COYG!

 

[CaseUteinberger]

So abit like the other fella I told. You've said something, ran with it, and when asked to back it up can't. Makes you look abit stupid pal.

Go back and read my first response to you. I said don't ask for examples! If you think I will sift through your **** posts here forget it. It is bad enough having to read them in the first place. I don't need seconds of that manure. So do it yourself and see if you change your mind. I have seen/read enough to have an informed position on what you post in general. If you feel it unjustified it isn't the worst of outcomes for either of us.

 

[14Henry]

Go back and read my first response to you. I said don't ask for examples! If you think I will sift through your **** posts here forget it. It is bad enough having to read them in the first place. I don't need seconds of that manure. So do it yourself and see if you change your mind. I have seen/read enough to have an informed position on what you post in general. If you feel it unjustified it isn't the worst of outcomes for either of us.

Another one bites the dust

 

[Gooner Zig]

“We stay loyal to the things that got us in this position” was his reasoning

I don't think he truly believes that.

 

[Gooner Zig]

I don't understand Arteta. I don't understand the limitations. KDB literally came out an explained they used a double pivot for more control. Yet we leave Partey by himself.

We should have also used a double pivot, we still would have lost imo but I don't think we would have been as bad as what we dished up.

 

[ArtetaOut]

The performance was a ****ing disgrace. No heart, no vigor. Representative of Cone Boy himself. Bunch of ****ing defeatists

 

[Kobi]

I don't understand Arteta. I don't understand the limitations. KDB literally came out an explained they used a double pivot for more control. Yet we leave Partey by himself.

In possession we play the exact same system as them, Zinchenko forms a double pivot with Partey, the only difference is when we lose it Zinchenko drops to LB to make a four where as they have Rodri dropping into CB.
The reason we had no control is we couldn’t keep the ball, they had it for most of the game meaning Zinchenko spent most of the time at LB and Rodri at CDM, if we had dominated possession then we would have had a double pivot for most of the game and Rodri would have had to drop back.
They are just a lot better than us.

 

[Gursha]

I don't disagree that having better players will help. It will.

My issue is that, as we saw last year against Sp**s, it was obvious that what Mikel was going to do wasn't going to work.

Hence why everyone and their dog on this forum said 4 3 3 with Holding isn't going to work here. It's why on Sky Sports and all the other media outlets there was a discussion about our tactics.

This isn't hindsight. It's foresight.

And it seems that Mikel will not be flexible in his formations. That's all I was saying. And I stand by it.

If you go and look at my pre match thread posts. I said a back 5 with Tierney LCB to limit the space both across and behind.

I said Trossard over Jesus because I knew chances would be limited and I believe Trossard to be more clinical both inside the box and outside if we were limited to long distance chance.

The one thing you cannot do is give Haaland and KDB big spaces between midfield and defence and thats what we did.

Pep knew what Mikel was going to do and exploited it. Yet Mikel didn't think ahead of Pep. City will struggle to get an easier game this season as other teams will sit deep and defend. Yes they may lose 1-0 like Palace did. But if you only concede maybe 1 goal against City you are in a match 90+ minutes. One random attack or mistake and you take something. 3-0 down after what an hour? No chance.

I agree with everything you just said, but one thing cross my mind that might could be the reason...

Holding had a few monster performances in his locker (vs aguero and costa).

maybe he knows saliba is out for the rest of the season, by dropping holding like everyone suggested its basically draining every bit of confidence still left for holding and ruling him out for the season mentally specifically

maybe he hoped he'll pull one of his monster duel performances...

thats the only reason i can see him playing... other then that, he was a hole in both phases of play... usually he defends ok minus, and his real struggle is on the ball when we basically ignore him as he offers nothing on the ball...

this game he was pretty much like a cone to haaland.. i seriously dont think he did anything right defensively the entire game


I think arteta is good when he has quality players at his disposal, with that, he is world class and rivals the best in the game...
what would you rather have? a manager that can squeeze the potential of quality players and make us a monster and big club in every competition, or a manager that can adjust to mediocre players and make them over perform once a while? in the end no manager can make a mediocre squad be a dominant force in europe and domestically.

Guys, the squad isnt good enough - creating a squad like city's takes years... many years... you cant have all your signing hit... you will miss a few... some take time to adjust... but it takes time...
i prefer to give arteta the quality he deserves rather than whine about the fact he cant adjust with **** players... holding cannot be 3rd or even 4th CB in any top team.
and at that level, every player counts. the ppl saying we had 10/11 first team on just doesnt understand how small the margins are to the way we play... an extra second in decision making, being predictably safe with your passes, all leads to loss of possession and inviting pressure
when you deploy a press like city does it can go 2 ways...
you either collapse and lose everything - which breeds confidence for them to continue faster and harder
but the other option doesnt necessarily means to always be able to beat their press for the entire game...
you only need to break the press 3-4 times to plant doubt in their press... after 3-4 times you broke it and got a good attacking scenario suddenly they wont press as intense as before, cause they got punished for it, psychologically you are afraid to press cause it can lead to a dangerous counter.
then we couldve have some time to breath and play our game
I do believe that with saliba we couldve broke their press 3-4 times in the first half to make them question it a little bit (i still think we wouldve lost, they were far better and unplayable, but we cannot know how those 2-3 breaking out of press would effect them) - with holding, its was impossible.
they targeted him and it gave them more and more confidence it snowballed out of control... against southhampton arteta actually dropped partey into the RCB spot on the ball so he can start the attack and not holding...
in the end of th day i dont understand why he started rob holding and not kiwior/tierney or at least tried to adjust, but i wouldnt go as far as question him as a manager cause we dont see the training, maybe kiwior plays even worse... i mean his cameos doesnt necessarily breeds confidence

 

[14Henry]

I agree with everything you just said, but one thing cross my mind that might could be the reason...

Holding had a few monster performances in his locker (vs aguero and costa).

maybe he knows saliba is out for the rest of the season, by dropping holding like everyone suggested its basically draining every bit of confidence still left for holding and ruling him out for the season mentally specifically

maybe he hoped he'll pull one of his monster duel performances...

thats the only reason i can see him playing... other then that, he was a hole in both phases of play... usually he defends ok minus, and his real struggle is on the ball when we basically ignore him as he offers nothing on the ball...

this game he was pretty much like a cone to haaland.. i seriously dont think he did anything right defensively the entire game


I think arteta is good when he has quality players at his disposal, with that, he is world class and rivals the best in the game...
what would you rather have? a manager that can squeeze the potential of quality players and make us a monster and big club in every competition, or a manager that can adjust to mediocre players and make them over perform once a while? in the end no manager can make a mediocre squad be a dominant force in europe and domestically.

Guys, the squad isnt good enough - creating a squad like city's takes years... many years... you cant have all your signing hit... you will miss a few... some take time to adjust... but it takes time...
i prefer to give arteta the quality he deserves rather than whine about the fact he cant adjust with **** players... holding cannot be 3rd or even 4th CB in any top team.
and at that level, every player counts. the ppl saying we had 10/11 first team on just doesnt understand how small the margins are to the way we play... an extra second in decision making, being predictably safe with your passes, all leads to loss of possession and inviting pressure
when you deploy a press like city does it can go 2 ways...
you either collapse and lose everything - which breeds confidence for them to continue faster and harder
but the other option doesnt necessarily means to always be able to beat their press for the entire game...
you only need to break the press 3-4 times to plant doubt in their press... after 3-4 times you broke it and got a good attacking scenario suddenly they wont press as intense as before, cause they got punished for it, psychologically you are afraid to press cause it can lead to a dangerous counter.
then we couldve have some time to breath and play our game
I do believe that with saliba we couldve broke their press 3-4 times in the first half to make them question it a little bit (i still think we wouldve lost, they were far better and unplayable, but we cannot know how those 2-3 breaking out of press would effect them) - with holding, its was impossible.
they targeted him and it gave them more and more confidence it snowballed out of control... against southhampton arteta actually dropped partey into the RCB spot on the ball so he can start the attack and not holding...
in the end of th day i dont understand why he started rob holding and not kiwior/tierney or at least tried to adjust, but i wouldnt go as far as question him as a manager cause we dont see the training, maybe kiwior plays even worse... i mean his cameos doesnt necessarily breeds confidence

Ideally you want both.

You want a manager who is world class with top players....but also a manager who can get results when he doesn't have his perfect 11.

It isn't and shouldn't be one or the other. You could find a thousand examples of similar level teams playing each other, one with a few players missing and one with their full team and the one with a few players missing find a way to win or at least draw.

You cannot be a world class manager if you only ever get results when your first 11 are fit. Which Arteta showed he could do when Jesus was out and we still won.

But what he needs to do is find a solution in defence when one of the central pairing are out.

It's all spilt milk now but there had to be another solution.

Klopp made Henderson look a top player by adjusting his role and system. Conte had Victor moses playing as a wing back and he was phenomenal. Ten Hag played a RB at LB the other day and a LB at CB. And found a way to win. Little things like this are needed.

 

[Coolin]

City gave us a lesson yesterday. We went 2-0 up at Liverpool and started playing party football. Then we went 2-0 up at West Ham and stopped playing completely.

Yesterday City went 2-0 and completely shut the door. Took the ball from us, suffocated our attack and picked us off at will.

That’s what the very best do.

 

[BergMan]

Player ratings

 

[Gursha]

Ideally you want both.

You want a manager who is world class with top players....but also a manager who can get results when he doesn't have his perfect 11.

It isn't and shouldn't be one or the other. You could find a thousand examples of similar level teams playing each other, one with a few players missing and one with their full team and the one with a few players missing find a way to win or at least draw.

You cannot be a world class manager if you only ever get results when your first 11 are fit. Which Arteta showed he could do when Jesus was out and we still won.

But what he needs to do is find a solution in defence when one of the central pairing are out.

It's all spilt milk now but there had to be another solution.

Klopp made Henderson look a top player by adjusting his role and system. Conte had Victor moses playing as a wing back and he was phenomenal. Ten Hag played a RB at LB the other day and a LB at CB. And found a way to win. Little things like this are needed.

again, i fully agree with you... but what im trying to say is thats currently what he has, and kiwior is a left footed CB, holding was inherited to him... he couldve adjusted but tomi and saliba injured at the same time made his little flexibility with the players he can trust very limited...

when this scenario will happen with a squad player he bought i will start wondering...
in the end i cannot excuse that... what i liked so much about arteta is the fact he saw and addressed all the deficiencies we as fans saw, after years upon years of not addressing blatant issues...

i cannot say this about the recent run of games tho, everyone and his sister couldve seen holding single handily ****ing our entire play from the back, an adjustment had to be made... and it didnt... it is worrying, i cannot defend that tbh..

i believe holding is at his ceiling in all aspects, no1 can get more of him, but not realizing that and trying to adjust, no idea why.. arteta is a super believer in first touch and body position when recieving the ball, maybe thats why he simply cannot allow a worng footed player in a position its against everything hes coaching

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Arteta is 100 percent responsible for Holding a trash player stealing a living and playing the biggest part in losing CL last year and blowing a once in lifetime chance at league. After all the time and money Arsenal not having quality back up CB or failing to change tactics to keep lower league trash Holding from playing is criminal negligence.

Arteta botched it again, i told you guys Holding is trash now i am spending thousands to go to a ****ty meaningless Brighton match. Fire this fcking fraud Stan. ETH or Emery would not of botched the title and we would already be booking the parade if you gave a real manager homegrown talent like this, 4 years time almost and massive transfer budgets it is a done deal.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Fire this idiot for humiliating us two years in a row with the same piece of garbage defender. You enjoy being laughed at, then keep this fcking tosser

 

[Big Poppa]

I think we can if we have a proper CDM which Partey was for a lot of this season.

Just felt like Partey couldn’t get near anyone.

He was trying to press Gundogan and Rodri in what was basically a 1 man midfield as Xhaka and Ødegaard were both so high. With Haaland occupying our CBs, it left KDB free to run off him into space.

It was an impossible job but for some reason we saw everything that was happening and never adjusted our set up.

 

[sergio_giorgini]

Ok we won't win it, but we are still top and could still equal our best ever points total if we wake up. If that is so bad that you can't follow the club any more, all I can say is don't let the door hit you on the way out, and I hope life in general isn't so traumatic for you.

I couldn’t give a monkeys about points total. Means nothing when we’ve lead the league for most of the season, playing the best football with everything seemingly going our way and falling into place only to predictably self-destruct in the final straight. For me it’s not that we’ve fallen short it’s the manner in which we’ve done it. The Liverpool match epitomized this club and the way the season panned out. We played a demoralized and down and out Liverpool off the park going 2-0 up. All we needed to really do was step on their necks and finish them off instead we somehow contrive out of nowhere to spark them into life and get them back into the game then we go into our shells. We did the same thing with City. They clearly had motivation issues in the first half of the season. They rock up at the emirates sh!ting themselves and we basically gift them 3 goals and kick start their season. Sick of this crap.

 

[Big Poppa]

I don't understand Arteta. I don't understand the limitations. KDB literally came out an explained they used a double pivot for more control. Yet we leave Partey by himself.

The next phase of our development will require balancing our structure with new ideas and different approaches. We are transitioning from "Norming" to "Performing" in Tuckman terms.

Arteta at the moment is too fearful of disturbing patterns.

 

[Big Poppa]

Player ratings

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How does Granit's eggplant taste?

 

[BergMan]

How does Granit's eggplant taste?

-
What a strange thing to post.

 

[andeoch1]

Why oh why would Teta play right into Pep's hands? It was embarassing.

Zinny the clown was rattled, Jesus invisible. Our team too stretched, couldn't pass for the life of it, Holding... no words.

If you want to play 4 at the back, play Tirney to overlap Martinelli and keep Walker and Bernardo at bay, Jorginho next to Partey to maintain tightness and passing in the middle of the park. Trossard who's in form to complete a square with Ode and get their defenders out of position to release Martinelli and Saka. Or go 5atb to nullify their 5. Anything.

But instead you play the same team that couldn't maintain a clean sheet vs Southampton at home and bad West Ham? That's sui-cide and idiocy imo.

Isn’t that the definition of madness to do the same thing over and over and expect a different result each time.

 

[Beany]

Yeah. The gun is giving off a lot of smoke. City are guilty as hell and everyone knows it, but they have a nation state funding an army of lawyers. Its why the UEFA charges fell down - they were time bound, and the City legal machine just clogged the process up beyond that timescale. That's why the key EPL thing is that are NOT time bound, and have already been building their case for years.

May be quicker to ferment a revolution that overthrows the evil corrupt ****ers running that country at the expense of their citizens.

The way to see it is that we’d have walked the league without these cheating, massively financially doped cnuts.

I’m sure the plan is to drag this out for so long that it’s politically expedient to cut a deal or try and brush it under the carpet.