UCL |Olympiacos v Arsenal| Wed 9/12/09|19:45| ITV1(finally)

[True Gooner]

Doesn't help that he was out injured most of the time since he scored the hattrick though.

That is his problem he needs to overcome pronto. The injury excuse doesnt really wash with me. If the majority of the time he has been injured since that hattrick then he is no use to us anyway.

Maybe, but when making any assertions on his quality as a footballer you can't deny that injuries have affected his performance and consistency.

It's a problem and may eventually affect his Arsenal career but that's very much another debate.

 

[True Gooner]

This Walcott boy has not done enough to warrant all the hype. There are at least a dozen players on a team who are better than him and nothing suggests that he will pan out to be a better play than our other youngsters like Gibbs, Ramsey, Merida, etc.

Meh. I've seen it happen time and again for every young player at the club.

When they first come on the scene and are protected by the manager they're in their comfort zone and do a few good things. Wherein the fans want the younger players to displace the supposedly average players playing above them etc etc

Then once the younger players are moved up the pecking order, fans grow tired of the mistakes that they make because they lose the protection that they've had before that and people question whether they'll make it at the club.

I've seen it happen to players since I first watched football - not just at Arsenal (Denilson, Bentley, Diaby, Aliadire, Pennant, Fabregas '06, Clichy, Eboue, Flamini, Senderos - the list goes on) but at every club. Only a select few like Messi and Fabregas remain relatively consistent from a young age. In a couple of seasons I expect the current lot of young players to be in the firing line.

It's true that they are overrated - which is why it's important to maintain realistic expectations of them. Even Wilshere's started to attract some flak tonight.

 

[outlaw_member]

Vela did nothing to aid his case for a first team start.

Ramsey on the other hand looked great.

Ramsey was excellent and made some brilliant passes throughout. The pass to Walcott with the outside of his foot was just out of this world. The only thing is that Ramsey and Walcott bar his finishing were extremely decisive players but the space they were afforded today cannot be understated. All of our players look great under those conditions but when we need to come up against deep lines and compact midfields than they are liabilities, for the mean time anyway.

 

[outlaw_member]

Again true, but despite people's rants to convince themselves otherwise - you don't play for a club like Arsenal unless you have a certain level of ability and like I said somewhere else, Walcott has the right attributes to be an effective player - even if he doesn't have the 'skillz' to be easy on the eye.

If Walcott's first touch doesn't improve than he could have all the skills but it wouldn't matter. A horrible first touch in a game with large amounts of space is inexcusable.

 

[AshburtonGhost]

Thanks, Outlaw. I asked about space afforded and noone answered.

 

[dyeruz]

Again true, but despite people's rants to convince themselves otherwise - you don't play for a club like Arsenal unless you have a certain level of ability and like I said somewhere else, Walcott has the right attributes to be an effective player - even if he doesn't have the 'skillz' to be easy on the eye.

If Walcott's first touch doesn't improve than he could have all the skills but it wouldn't matter. A horrible first touch in a game with large amounts of space is inexcusable.

just like Eduardo or Arshavin?

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Again true, but despite people's rants to convince themselves otherwise - you don't play for a club like Arsenal unless you have a certain level of ability and like I said somewhere else, Walcott has the right attributes to be an effective player - even if he doesn't have the 'skillz' to be easy on the eye.

If Walcott's first touch doesn't improve than he could have all the skills but it wouldn't matter. A horrible first touch in a game with large amounts of space is inexcusable.

Agreed. It's, however, possible that he didn't stay sharp because of the amount of space being offered. Maybe he relaxed too much. It's too small a sample size to judge. What's clear is that I've seen his first touch a lot better than what it was tonight.

 

[dyeruz]

First touch is a tad more difficult to achieve when you're running at a hundred miles an hour..cut the boy some slack, it at least shows he should be playing through the middle burning ****ers with his pace, the stop start nature of his career means he will blow hot and cold, when he had a decent run last year, he did catch fire..until he got injured again

 

[True Gooner]

Again true, but despite people's rants to convince themselves otherwise - you don't play for a club like Arsenal unless you have a certain level of ability and like I said somewhere else, Walcott has the right attributes to be an effective player - even if he doesn't have the 'skillz' to be easy on the eye.

If Walcott's first touch doesn't improve than he could have all the skills but it wouldn't matter. A horrible first touch in a game with large amounts of space is inexcusable.

It was quite bad, wasn't it? But by and large he's got a decent first touch. Certainly for the kind of role I think he'll play in anyway where his running into space where his timing of runs will be the single most decisive factor.

I think his decision making and ability to dribble with the ball need to improve much more than his first touch tbh.

 

[qs]

but the space they were afforded today cannot be understated. All of our players look great under those conditions but when we need to come up against deep lines and compact midfields than they are liabilities, for the mean time anyway.

Yeah thats true enough but don't forget Ramsey is 18. Diaby was lauded after the first leg, its the least I'd expect from senior players to be looking good against teams like this. When an 18 year old does it its slightly different though.

We've not much to be excited about these days, I'm going to allow myself a little bit of excitement about Ramsey. Clearly the best of our teenagers.

 

[outlaw_member]

If anyone hasn't said it already, based on his last two performances Fabianski > Almunia.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

Ramsey was excellent and made some brilliant passes throughout. The pass to Walcott with the outside of his foot was just out of this world. The only thing is that Ramsey and Walcott bar his finishing were extremely decisive players but the space they were afforded today cannot be understated. All of our players look great under those conditions but when we need to come up against deep lines and compact midfields than they are liabilities, for the mean time anyway.

Unfortunately your right Outlaw. I love Ramsey and he has the makings of a top midfielder but despite tonights performance he isn't ready for starting in the rough and tumble of PL football. When he is pressured and forced to make quick decisions with midfielders hustling him off the ball, he comes up short.

Tonights game was made for him though and he showed what he is capable of. In my opinion he will be able to perform to that standard in the league in a couple of years time.

 

[asajoseph]

Ramsey was excellent and made some brilliant passes throughout. The pass to Walcott with the outside of his foot was just out of this world. The only thing is that Ramsey and Walcott bar his finishing were extremely decisive players but the space they were afforded today cannot be understated. All of our players look great under those conditions but when we need to come up against deep lines and compact midfields than they are liabilities, for the mean time anyway.

Unfortunately your right Outlaw. I love Ramsey and he has the makings of a top midfielder but despite tonights performance he isn't ready for starting in the rough and tumble of PL football. When he is pressured and forced to make quick decisions with midfielders hustling him off the ball, he comes up short.

His pass setting up Walcott in the first half was under about as much pressure, and required about as much instinct as you can possibly ask of anyone.

He needs to concentrate a bit, and calm down, but it seems very obvious that he has the tools to eventually become a great player.

 

[MDGoonah41]

Walcott's problem is obviously his first touch and his close control. He has pace, when he's in space he can take a good shot, and he's scored some nice goals. But when the ball is played into his feet, he's not good at getting it under control and having his next move already planned out. Too many times he takes a woefully strong touch right into a defender. Or he tries his stutter step dribble right into a wall of defenders. I guess Wenger's plan with moving him wide was to get him to focus on dribbling and his control, but it obviously hasn't helped.

Vela's problem is similar, in that he seems tentative and doesn't really have the close control needed. He, like Theo, has scored a few wonderful goals, but he seems timid, and he's the most one-footed player I can remember in my time as an Arsenal fan. Way more so than van Persie was a few seasons ago. Maybe it will develop, maybe not, but he's a liability when he can't shift the ball to his right foot.

Walcott and Vela are both interesting guys who are very young, and who have potential, but neither should be counted on to play 90 minutes week in and week out on a consistent basis.

 

[kamikaze80]

walcott just has terrible awareness. his game is just so... english. he can finish a clear chance and put a nice ball in across the face of goal from out wide, but ask him to do anything other than those two things and he will mess it up.

 

[USArsenal]

walcott just has terrible awareness. his game is just so... english. he can finish a clear chance and put a nice ball in across the face of goal from out wide, but ask him to do anything other than those two things and he will mess it up.

well, those 2 things can be useful...

 

[gstew]

Vela's problem is similar, in that he seems tentative and doesn't really have the close control needed. He, like Theo, has scored a few wonderful goals, but he seems timid, and he's the most one-footed player I can remember in my time as an Arsenal fan. Way more so than van Persie was a few seasons ago. Maybe it will develop, maybe not, but he's a liability when he can't shift the ball to his right foot.

Have you forgotten about a young man named Jose Antonio Reyes?

 

[Lukazan]

Nah, Reyes wasn't as bad.

I said it before, but Vela really needs to develop his right foot otherwise I'm not sure he'll make it here. You can tell how one footed he is just by the way he runs.. I'm not even sure how that's possible.

 

[Zico]

Why do we tend to single out lefties for being one-footed?

 

[Klaus Daimler]

That's a good question actually. I suspect that it's for the same reason we tend to single them out for being, by nature, more creative, even when cognitive science in latter years have shown that there are no conclusive fact that supports that theory.

In other words, it's a way of stereotyping. I think Vela's right foot is about as bad as an average footballer's left one. No doubt will it be subject to endless discussions, though.