UCL |Olympiacos v Arsenal| Wed 9/12/09|19:45| ITV1(finally)

[Swish]

The result doesn't make the blindest bit of difference, so I'm only going to take the positives from the game.

 

[asajoseph]

We were positive and overall I am disappointed because we lost the game but proud of the attitude of our young players.

Seriously, this doesn't need to be complicated.

 

[longrufus]

My opinion of last night - We looked good in possession, dominated, but didn't create enough chances, fluffed the chances we did have and looked shaky at the back.

It was just like watching the first team.

Ramsey was excellent, as was Song, but some of the players I thought would shine like Vela, Merida, Wilshere and Walcott were a big let down.

 

[Rohit]

We have seen some great Arsenal teams in the past crumble against average teams away in Europe when faced with a hostile crowd.

Our average age was 20 and they never looked fazed.

I am glad each of those guys is playing at my club rather than at any other.

It's laughable that some players are being written off based on last night but it's certainly disappointing we couldn't convert the performance into a win.

 

[USArsenal]

no one should be written off after yesterday (dont know much about Cruise TBH, and maybe we all know Gilbert wont make it here though)..

we have all seen Vela play better, we have seen Theo play better.. we have seen Jack play better.. we know they are capable of it.. they all had quiet games yesterday, and that happens to every player from time to time, especially when they are young and not particularly experienced yet..

away in Greece to the Greek champions.. outplayed them for the most part.. had some chances but didnt convert.. from all accounts, looked comfortable enough.. some standout performances (Ramsey in particular), some solid performances (Bartley, Merida, Cruise?).. playing a FULL STRENGTH Olymp. squad who needed to win to progress to the next round

yeah, we lost the game, but as I said earlier in the thread, i was expecting a 2 or 3 goal loss, so it seems we did much better than anticipated... im not really going to read too much into yesterday's game..

 

[longrufus]

I'm the opposite really, yesterdays game shows exactly what is wrong with the current footballing philosophy at Arsenal. We can say lets not read too much into the result but for me it speaks volumes. Like so many games with the first team, we dominate, but lack a cutting edge, don't take our chances and pay the price.

Whats worse for me is that this is what Wenger has been building, yet its a carbon copy of what we have already, a team that isn't good enough, and suffers the same pitfalls. Its admirable to play the way we do, but there must come a point where we adapt so we can get results and not just performances.

 

[Rohit]

Vela and Theo have barely played this season.

They have the potential of being the world's most feared striker pairing in the world. Both could have done better and there are a number of areas where both can improve and they will because they are just 20.

Most of the chances we created were through Walcott. His pace and timing of his runs is a huge asset that we have missed this season. I really hope he gets a decent run of games.

 

[OohtobeaGoonerGal]

What was our formation exactly yesterday? Especially with the front three?

I thought it was Vela central with Theo right and Wilshere left, so howcomes for many periods of the match it looked like Vela had started on the left and Theo central, with Jack on the right? :? I'm confused...

 

[Swish]

Vela and Theo have barely played this season.

They have the potential of being the world's most feared striker pairing in the world. Both could have done better and there are a number of areas where both can improve and they will because they are just 20.

Most of the chances we created were through Walcott. His pace and timing of his runs is a huge asset that we have missed this season. I really hope he gets a decent run of games.

This.

 

[Viking]

I'm writing off both Vela and Walcott. We've got a new striker coming in January precisely because these guys couldn't finish the chances they got last night. And with a new striker coming, they won't get many chances to step up. Thus they'll be forced to move.

Another brilliant analysis by Sabre. I'm dumbstruck.

 

[fabo]

I'm the opposite really, yesterdays game shows exactly what is wrong with the current footballing philosophy at Arsenal. We can say lets not read too much into the result but for me it speaks volumes. Like so many games with the first team, we dominate, but lack a cutting edge, don't take our chances and pay the price.

Whats worse for me is that this is what Wenger has been building, yet its a carbon copy of what we have already, a team that isn't good enough, and suffers the same pitfalls. Its admirable to play the way we do, but there must come a point where we adapt so we can get results and not just performances.

Agree 100%.

Not happy one bit. It's easy to see why United are currently more successful - their team is more adaptable than ours, more direct, more strings to their bow in an attacking sense.

You need a really top class team in most departments to reap success with our current style IMO.

 

[sabret00the]

I'm the opposite really, yesterdays game shows exactly what is wrong with the current footballing philosophy at Arsenal. We can say lets not read too much into the result but for me it speaks volumes. Like so many games with the first team, we dominate, but lack a cutting edge, don't take our chances and pay the price.

Whats worse for me is that this is what Wenger has been building, yet its a carbon copy of what we have already, a team that isn't good enough, and suffers the same pitfalls. Its admirable to play the way we do, but there must come a point where we adapt so we can get results and not just performances.

Sadly precisely. This is a team without any finishers and the we do have all seem to be naturals on the wane. There seems to be **** all emphasis on finishing. Merely this let's tap the ball around until we get it into the box for a tap in. The biggest positive of last night was the fact that these players didn't give it to the full backs to cross in.

People are saying that I'm being harsh on Wilshere, Walcott and Vela. But we have three attackers here who struggled to get shots on target. Who each failed to create a chance for a team mate and generally sucked in possession. The Wilshere thing pisses me off just that little bit more because based on the Silvestre interview he's clearly taking on players in training and providing that Hleb-like outlet, so where the hell is it in his first team appearances? If it's a personal decision, why isn't Wenger telling him to sort it out and if it's a tactical decision, it's clearly one that's costing us.

The thing that's most alarming is that people are forgetting the fact that this isn't just our reserves or youth. This is our squad, these are the players we rely on and upon what was shown last night, we can't rely on these guys. If they wanna stop players being brought in ahead of them, they have to perform on stages like last night and not enough did. In the end I actually feel sorry for Ramsey because he's got at that Fabregas role and sucks at any other midfield role and yet the chances he should be getting to keep pressure on Fabregas are a lot like last night.

 

[Zico]

Another way to look at yesterday's game is that it was Wenger's absolute last chance to **** around this season, and he used it to get a good look at a lot of players who are hovering around the periphery of the first team. If the game is seen in that context, then it is hard to get annoyed. When you consider the injury list we currently have, then it was worth it both from the point of view of testing replacements and resting first team players.

I'm sure many will remember that a week ago I was shaking with rage at the Carling Cup debacle. I was enraged because that was a route to a trophy. Yesterday's game, on the other hand, had no competitive meaning to our team.

 

[longrufus]

Sabre, to pick up on the full back point, it showed how one dimensional our side can be. Without the overlapping runs of the full backs we lacked any width to spread the Olympiacos defence and make some decent openings. You cant simply play central attacking midfielders and expect natural width.

 

[sabret00the]

Sabre, to pick up on the full back point, it showed how one dimensional our side can be. Without the overlapping runs of the full backs we lacked any width to spread the Olympiacos defence and make some decent openings. You cant simply play central attacking midfielders and expect natural width.

But that's the problem with the attackers. Henry likes to pull out wide in order to give himself the opportunity to run at players, as did Pires and as do most players that can take on players in the world. With our current crop, no one was doing that. I'm all for fullbacks getting forward when you need em, but not by default, that's the job of the wing-forwards.

 

[fabo]

Sabre, to pick up on the full back point, it showed how one dimensional our side can be. Without the overlapping runs of the full backs we lacked any width to spread the Olympiacos defence and make some decent openings. You cant simply play central attacking midfielders and expect natural width.

The thing is I don't mind the crossing - it should be another part of our attacking armour. But our full-backs, from first team down to youth level, provide a body high up the pitch but nothing in a productive sense and inevitably screw up our defensive shape.

There's a weak, loser's mentality at the club these days. Teams are confident in stifling us and know they'll have a chance.

For me none of Ramsey, Vela or Walcott should be anywhere near starting games and at a push on the bench. Too much garbage at the club.

 

[irishgunnerz]

I'm the opposite really, yesterdays game shows exactly what is wrong with the current footballing philosophy at Arsenal. We can say lets not read too much into the result but for me it speaks volumes. Like so many games with the first team, we dominate, but lack a cutting edge, don't take our chances and pay the price.

Whats worse for me is that this is what Wenger has been building, yet its a carbon copy of what we have already, a team that isn't good enough, and suffers the same pitfalls. Its admirable to play the way we do, but there must come a point where we adapt so we can get results and not just performances.

Agree 100%.

Not happy one bit. It's easy to see why United are currently more successful - their team is more adaptable than ours, more direct, more strings to their bow in an attacking sense.

You need a really top class team in most departments to reap success with our current style IMO.

Damn youre hard please.

First of all - in any competition, its the games that matter that you need to worry about. Irrespective of who the opposition is, if its a knowckout game or if youre seeking points towards a top palce finish in the league, those games matter.

A final group game in which we had already topped the group does not matter.

Second of all, the strikers you mentioned have played **** all this year for various reasons. Injuries and international duty for Vela and injuries for Walcott. What exactly did you expect? Away to a team with an excellent home record in the CL? Did you expect a forward line, with almost 0 game time this season to be able to look 100%, with cool assured finishing? Of course they were rusty with their first touch and finishing. That happens any player thats been out for a long period of time.

What impressed me was the intelligence they showed on the pitch to get into dangerous positions. Walcott timed some of his runs perfectly, almost Henry-esque it must be said, while Vela stood out for his misses...misses he made after getting in the position to take the shot.

Intelligence on the pitch and positioning doesnt really improve dramatically with game time - technique does. So I'm not worried in the least about last night and anyone judging our forward players by the criteria they would judge fully fit members of the first team needs their head examined.

As for the team not being good enough? Based on the game last night, I certainly wouldnt say lack of quality killed us. Indeed even our lack of experience failed to show us up in a very hostile atmosphere that would have been a first for many in the team at a ground where Olympiakos have had an extremely good record in the CL - and against a team who unlike us did have alot to play for, needing at least a point.

What exactly is your point? We rested first teamers when we got the chance - and damn right too, given the number of injured and walking wounded we have.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Sabre, to pick up on the full back point, it showed how one dimensional our side can be. Without the overlapping runs of the full backs we lacked any width to spread the Olympiacos defence and make some decent openings. You cant simply play central attacking midfielders and expect natural width.

The thing is I don't mind the crossing - it should be another part of our attacking armour. But our full-backs, from first team down to youth level, provide a body high up the pitch but nothing in a productive sense and inevitably screw up our defensive shape.

There's a weak, loser's mentality at the club these days. Teams are confident in stifling us and know they'll have a chance.

For me none of Ramsey, Vela or Walcott should be anywhere near starting games and at a push on the bench. Too much garbage at the club.

Only garbage is the judging of players who have almost zero game time. Ramsey was immense last night - easily the best player on the park. As I've said in my post above, if you cant see the difference between players being rusty yet having the natural intelligence to get into great positions and 'rubbish', you simply like complaining for the sake of it.

 

[fabo]

Mate the first team are just as wasteful. I bet Fabregas and co would have struggled there last night, like the majority of away games this season where they have failed to show. Any team with a sufficient gameplan, that plays compact and presses for most of the game has a chance to get a result against us. Away from the Emirates especially.

And it's not really about last nights game on it's own - it's a pattern that's emerged in recent years. Possession football, not really testing the GK so much, vulnerable on the break, full-backs caught upfield, tippy tappy play on the edge of the box but nobody shooting etc. I'm certainly not criticising Wenger for fielding a weakened team - we had earned the right.

As for the game itself, Walcott was poor. Is it really sharpness that's the issue? I don't think so - he fails to make an impact more than he does IMO. Vela another player who has ability - but clearly not ready. Even last year when he played well in the cups, he was struggling in most of his League cameos. Since when do people get rewarded with game time for mediocre performances - all too regular occurence over the years. I'm all for giving youth a chance but only the best should survive at a club like Arsenal.

I think people can brush the result under the carpet and fair enough, it is the game to do that. But they'll likely be the same people looking for answers when we screw up(again) in the not so distant future.

 

[fabo]

Only garbage is the judging of players who have almost zero game time. Ramsey was immense last night - easily the best player on the park. As I've said in my post above, if you cant see the difference between players being rusty yet having the natural intelligence to get into great positions and 'rubbish', you simply like complaining for the sake of it.

Ramsey has plenty of game time under his belt. Pet project number one of Arsène. And I said he played well in the ratings thread but not nearly as well as some are making out in my view. Couple of years off being a first teamer I think.

The Walcott issue is not really based on last night - I just don't rate him.