Who are the great managers of the modern game, and why

[db10_therza]

Nice work moving the posts btw. I was just about to come on here and ***** about how the Tets thread keeps going from bad to worse

 

[Riou]

Nice work moving the posts btw. I was just about to come on here and ***** about how the Tets thread keeps going from bad to worse

Moving posts won't really change that, only delay it

 

[HattoriHanzo]

@HattoriHanzo has just signed up and is coming with his katana-swinging to defend Arteta in comparing with few big name managers like Carlo and Zidane who both won trophies galore.

I haven´t started these comparisons.
As I have stated earlier, Arteta is not level of Ancelotti or Zidane yet.
I have also said that it will take time to see if he can reach their level.

Arteta deserved to be sacked in December 2020. (after abysmal run of 7 PL games with 2 only points gained).
Same things 2 years ago, after first 3 matches.

But now?

 

[2Smokeyy]

He wouldn´t come to Arsenal.
From what I know he isn´t even interested coming to England.
He refused PSG this summer which is telling.
I can imagine him being interested only in his previous clubs (Real and Juventus).
And French NT, of course

Anyway he doesn´t look to me like a manager who builds the squad (what Arsenal needed in 2019)

Possibly but we’ll never know until he’s had the chance to do so.

I’m not of the opinion a manager should be flipping a whole squad or “signing his players” as many fans/media seem to think so. The best clubs should be buying the right players not based on the desired managers style but the clubs. If/When he leaves or gets sacked the transition to the next manager taking over will smooth and they won’t have to flip the whole squad again.

 

[db10_therza]

I’m not of the opinion a manager should be flipping a whole squad or “signing his players” as many fans/media seem to think so. The best clubs should be buying the right players not based on the desired managers style but the clubs. If/When he leaves or gets sacked the transition to the next manager taking over will smooth and they won’t have to flip the whole squad again.

I agree with this in general, although what Arsenal has done could also be viewed as buying players suited to a jdp style. So as long as the next manager shares the same philosophies then it’s fine, there shouldn’t be a big upheaval again.

Brighton are the best example of this, they have an overarching philosophy of football and get both players and managers in who match that and it’s all just seamless.

Since Ancelotti has been raised - getting him in next might not work for this reason, he’s as anti jdp as they come. He needs players that deliver big moments which we don’t really have. De Zerbi would work great though.

We’ve basically shut down the idea of Arsenal playing “free flowing” football for the foreseeable, whether Arteta stays or goes.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Possibly but we’ll never know until he’s had the chance to do so.

I’m not of the opinion a manager should be flipping a whole squad or “signing his players” as many fans/media seem to think so. The best clubs should be buying the right players not based on the desired managers style but the clubs. If/When he leaves or gets sacked the transition to the next manager taking over will smooth and they won’t have to flip the whole squad again.

I agree with you in general.
When Emery was sacked, I have expected that Arsenal would hire Ancelotti (who was sacked by Napoli at that time).
And for me it would have been wise move back then.
Ancelotti is not limited to certain philosophy, he just uses players he has at his disposal.
We can only imagine how Arsenal would look under Ancelotti and how successful he would be with Arsenal.

But we know that Real would have come for him in summer 2021. and I am 99% sure that he would accept their offer.
And Arsenal would have been without manager in 2021.

I share your opinion that manager doesn´t have to change the whole squad in order to play "his football".
But Arsenal has chosen Arteta, and here we are.
As fans, we should support him hoping that he has the skill to reach the highest level.
He should be critisized for his mistakes, but constructively.

 

[2Smokeyy]

I agree with you in general.
When Emery was sacked, I have expected that Arsenal would hire Ancelotti (who was sacked by Napoli at that time).
And for me it would have been wise move back then.
Ancelotti is not limited to certain philosophy, he just uses players he has at his disposal.
We can only imagine how Arsenal would look under Ancelotti and how successful he would be with Arsenal.

But we know that Real would have come for him in summer 2021. and I am 99% sure that he would accept their offer.
And Arsenal would have been without manager in 2021.

I share your opinion that manager doesn´t have to change the whole squad in order to play "his football".
But Arsenal has chosen Arteta, and here we are.
As fans, we should support him hoping that he has the skill to reach the highest level.
He should be critisized for his mistakes, but constructively.

Fair enough with the points you’ve raised however the bolded part won’t work on here as some have become too attached and get easily offended when a bit of constructive criticism comes his way or to any of our current crop of players for that matter.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

It seems loads of posters are making the mistake of considering a manager great because he got to run a few cheat clubs for a sustained period of time. 00s Milan, 00s Chelsea and Real Madrid are cheat code clubs. You don't get points for winning with them, unless you consider Roberto Di Mateo the best coach of all time

Ancelotti, Mourinho, Zidane.....basically all modern day yet inferior versions of Kenny Daglish.

 

[shoot for the top]

It seems loads of posters are making the mistake of considering a manager great because he got to run a few cheat clubs for a sustained period of time. 00s Milan, 00s Chelsea and Real Madrid are cheat code clubs. You don't get points for winning with them, unless you consider Roberto Di Mateo the best coach of all time

Ancelotti, Mourinho, Zidane.....basically all modern day yet inferior versions of Kenny Daglish.

What does that make Arteta?

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Arteta is nowhere near elite. I can’t name all the managers better than him I don’t want to get carpal tunnel. It is funny but neutrals really were rating Arteta highly half way through last year.

But in a second straight comical collapse, a Havertz buy no else in football with a brain buys, and then his widely panned 43 formation interview you don’t see the neutrals fawning him for him anymore. You see headlines not calling him shrewd but claiming his behavior is bizarre.

The Arsenal fan base is so happy to see good football and progress in standings they just shut their eyes to tons evidence that this man is way out of his depth. But neutrals are starting to see it and his name isn’t bandied about whenever a bigger club has opening.

 

[LuanNguyen]

The current Arteta should be compared to Rodgers. Their achievements were quite similar when they were young. Hopefully the future will see Arteta coaching Rangers.

 

[ItzdoctorZ]

The current Arteta should be compared to Rodgers. Their achievements were quite similar when they were young. Hopefully the future will see Arteta coaching Rangers.

Rodgers had a fluke season being carried by Suarez and returned to **** the following season, Arsenal will be up there against this season.

 

[Dokaka]

The best clubs should be buying the right players not based on the desired managers style but the clubs.

I honestly think people make a bit too much out of saying Arteta wants "his" players. Not that he didn't or need new players, he obviously did, but rather because I think it's become quite clear that the players you had to work with at the time just weren't up the standard, regardless of the manager in charge.

There aren't really any of the current players I'd flag as only working for Arteta and an awkward fit for a different manager. Zinny maybe? Not because he's not a good player, but because you don't really have a traditional LB as a result of him but utilized as one, but he's still a quality midfield option for any manager. I just think you've brought in class players, honestly.

As far as I know, none of the players you've let go have really proven the point that you just needed better players wrong. None of them are better than the players you have now, and wouldn't be under any manager.

 

[2Smokeyy]

I honestly think people make a bit too much out of saying Arteta wants "his" players. Not that he didn't or need new players, he obviously did, but rather because I think it's become quite clear that the players you had to work with at the time just weren't up the standard, regardless of the manager in charge.

There aren't really any of the current players I'd flag as only working for Arteta and an awkward fit for a different manager. Zinny maybe? Not because he's not a good player, but because you don't really have a traditional LB as a result of him but utilized as one, but he's still a quality midfield option for any manager. I just think you've brought in class players, honestly.

As far as I know, none of the players you've let go have really proven the point that you just needed better players wrong. None of them are better than the players you have now, and wouldn't be under any manager.

It was more a general statement as fans nowadays and even parts of the media have this idea that a manager needs to flip a whole squad in order to make things work.

Joe Willock? I was always a massive fan especially when he was coming through, so it was a bit weird to see him go. Another manager could have definitely worked with him. Even Auba and Laca performed very well as soon as they left the club, so it’s a bit easy saying that now but back then they could have definitely contributed.

I’ve said it before but the rigid system that the manager is implementing will make us miss out and lose some decent players along the way. It’s one of the main reasons why he opted for Kai Havertz over better options on the market and there were quite a few better and available for a similar fee or less.



Just an example but look at the rubbish that Ange Postecoglou is working with. I know it’s early doors but to get something out of players that were laughed about by many on here including myself and get them to play a brand of attacking football is already an achievement. Under Conte, Bissouma for example looked like a shadow of his former self which just goes to show the difference a good manager can make.

 

[Dokaka]

Under Conte, Bissouma for example looked like a shadow of his former self which just goes to show the difference a good manager can make.

Couldn't you make this exact same argument with Xhaka? Went from one of the most disliked players to a fan favourite because of how Arteta utilized him. And it's not like Xhaka was previously managed by bad managers, but Arteta got him to perform at a level we hadn't seen before.

Your point about you missing out on good players is valid, I've made the same point, but I think you could argue that for most teams. Arteta probably exacerbates it though, at least in a few positions (FBs mainly).

Regarding the Sp**s team, I'm probably the wrong person to make that argument to on here as I'm on record rating their players way higher than the vast majority would.

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

Just an example but look at the rubbish that Ange Postecoglou is working with. I know it’s early doors but to get something out of players that were laughed about by many on here including myself and get them to play a brand of attacking football is already an achievement. Under Conte, Bissouma for example looked like a shadow of his former self which just goes to show the difference a good manager can make.

Weren't most Arsenal fans wishlisting Bissouma though? He screens the back 4 brilliantly and is incredibly press resistant. Did this for years at Brighton.

Conte's anti football was disgusting too. He didn't even try to get them playing football. Have everyone sit back and then occasionally try to have his front 3 break on the counter. Turgid stuff. Mourinho was much the same. There's noway any midfielder is getting to look good in possession with those managers.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Couldn't you make this exact same argument with Xhaka? Went from one of the most disliked players to a fan favourite because of how Arteta utilized him. And it's not like Xhaka was previously managed by bad managers, but Arteta got him to perform at a level we hadn't seen before.

Xhaka wasn’t that bad under Emery and AW, I do agree with you that the positional change under Arteta did help his style massively and made him a lot more productive which is why fans were noticing him but before that he was a good player for us, it’s just that your average fan didn’t notice it until stats came into play. Everything is measured on G/A these days and that’s when he became a fans favourite.

Weren't most Arsenal fans wishlisting Bissouma though? He screens the back 4 brilliantly and is incredibly press resistant. Did this for years at Brighton.

Conte's anti football was disgusting too. He didn't even try to get them playing football. Have everyone sit back and then occasionally try to have his front 3 break on the counter. Turgid stuff. Mourinho was much the same. There's noway any midfielder is getting to look good in possession with those managers.

I’m surprised not many noticed that. I started sussing it out when a lot of the Sp**s players especially those that were very consistent over the years in Kane and Son weren’t performing to the standard they used to and that there was something off with the whole team. He’s showing his worth in another system but like I said at the time it’s a bit hard to judge players in the system that Conte implements, so I definitely agree.