Who are the great managers of the modern game, and why

[Makavelii]

I'm obviously very much on the pro-Arteta side. But let's not get carried away.
He has a way to go to be compared to Ancelotti. Which is expected given 25 years less experience and dozens of major trophies. Ancelotti is a beast.

I do feel Arteta is a better fit for us now though. Ancelotti does 1 or 2 seasons per club. Not really the long term solution we've needed.
Mikel was right that we needed a whole cultural shift. Ancelotti wouldn't have put any energy into that side of the club.

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

I can't believe how some members are downplaying Ancelotti here.

All I’m saying is that his resume outside of rea Madrid the last decade is mediocre

 

[HattoriHanzo]

I'm obviously very much on the pro-Arteta side. But let's not get carried away.
He has a way to go to be compared to Ancelotti. Which is expected given 25 years less experience and dozens of major trophies. Ancelotti is a beast.

I do feel Arteta is a better fit for us now though. Ancelotti does 1 or 2 seasons per club. Not really the long term solution we've needed.
Mikel was right that we needed a whole cultural shift. Ancelotti wouldn't have put any energy into that side of the club.

You are 100% right.
Besides Arsenal, I support also AC Milan and Croatian NT.
It doesn´t make sense to compare Ancelotti and Arteta.
In his tenure at AC Milan (since November 2001. to summer 2009.), he had squad filled with world class players (Dida, Maldini, Nesta, Costacurta, Cafu, Pirlo, Gattuso, Seedorf, Kaka,
Shevcehenko).
And yet he has succeeded to win scudetto (Serie A title) only once, in 2004. In more than 7 seasons.
Not to mention famous UEFA CL final in Istanbul 2005. against Liverpool. At half time it was 3:0 for Milan, in the end Liverpool won at penalties.
Ancelotti was 46 then, with much more experience as a manager than Arteta now.
Does this mean that Ancelotti is bottler?
Of course not, for me as an AC Milan supporter Ancelotti is one of the greatest managers ever.
And yet even he in his CV has these underachievements.

Ancelotti would have been very bad fit for Arsenal in December 2019.
Arsenal needed total overhaul back then and Ancelotti is not the man to do it.
Did anybody expect that with Ancelotti as manager Arsenal would have won Premier League in 2020. or 2021?
Because in summer 2021. Real Madrid came for Ancelotti and he immediately left Everton and went to Madrid.
Does anybody think that Ancelotti would refuse Real Madrid in 2021. had he been in Arsenal back then?
I don´t think so.
Arteta at least won FA Cup in 2020.

Only two managers that would have been undoubtedly better at Arsenal than Arteta are Guardiola and Klopp.
Unfortunately, they are out of reach.
Maybe De Zerbi but he is still unknown quantity at higher level club like Arsenal with higher pressure.
And yet he lost 5:1 to Everton last season and 3:1 to West Ham few weeks ago at home.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

The thing is Ancelotti is a GOAT and yeah he clearly deserves to be above Arteta in the pecking order as it stands.

Managers are generally suited to certain jobs and certain environments though. For example if I'm the owner of a team in a relegation scrap with 10 games to go and I need a new manager and I have the choice of Sean Dyche or Ancelotti, I'm picking Dyche because he's excellent at backs to the wall, making your side hard to beat jobs. That doesn't mean he's a better overall manager than Ancelotti because he's clearly not. He's just better suited to that particular job.

What we know of how the Arsenal project has developed over Arteta's tenure, Ancelotti wouldn't have be suited to that. He's not a focal point type character and he's not someone that makes sweeping changes or alters philosophies of clubs.

He's a rule by committee type which is the opposite of what we needed when Arteta took over. We went that route under Emery, where he'd try to make a stand and drop Özil or whoever, then he'd cave under pressure from the squad and higher ups and bring him back. That sort of stuff is how he lost authority and respect.

 

[Macho]

Pep has skewed expectations of managers anyways to the point where guys are coming on here saying Ancelotti (and even Wenger at times) underachieved.

Outside serial winners in Ancelotti, OG Mourinho, it gets very scarce when looking at the active managers where their trophies are major but spotty like Tuchel.

The next tier is Emery who is an Europa cup specialist.

Then you got Arteta, who got FA Cup with guys who everybody hated and has kinda sold dreams since.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Yeah man Carlo is class. He’s exceptional at getting the best out of a given group of players. He’s tactically flexible and the fact that he’s still a dominant force given all the change that’s happened is testament to his ability to adapt and evolve. I think you’re forgetting his AC Milan spell? He also won the league with Chelsea…

He is top drawer. But yeah no, we would not have won the league with him last season. Not even close.

People have very short memories. At the start of last season hardly anyone had us in top 4 let alone challenging the way we did. That was the expectation on us given the squad we had. Carlo I think could have got us into top 4.

It was Mikel’s tactics that turned the league on its head and gave us that mind blowing start to the season. Then a combination of said tactics getting figured out and injuries and yes, a certain amount of naïveté from a young manager and a younger squad that meant we missed out.

What we need to right those wrongs are chiefly more flexibility, both in terms of personnel and tactics. And that’s what we’re seeing now. What it does mean though is that we’re not gonna be that same force of nature from the start of last season, because that force got blunted by the end. A lot of people won’t be comfortable with this but will just have to see if it means we’re better over a course of a full season.

You need to remember a lot of these guys think that if it didn’t happen in the Premier League it doesn’t count. The level of English bias these days is getting ridiculous.

 

[db10_therza]

You need to remember a lot of these guys think that if it didn’t happen in the Premier League it doesn’t count. The level of English bias these days is getting ridiculous.

Back in those days especially the PL was nowhere

 

[Riou]

Until Arteta wins a major or does a similar job elsewhere without the same allowances and kid gloves then he will never be fully rated by many and rightfully so.

Seen you say the "kid gloves" thing a few times and I found a picture on Twitter that perfectly sums up how those who don't like the gaffer, must feel Stan and Josh have treated him...

...Mikel "27 year old teenage girl" Arteta

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Until Arteta wins a major or does a similar job elsewhere without the same allowances and kid gloves then he will never be fully rated by many and rightfully so.

Regardless of how this tenure turns out I hope this club never goes down this road again,. After 3.5 years and heavy expenditure it's still kind of up in the air (for me anyways) if Arteta's been worth it.

Do you expect him to win without spending? Do you hold Guardiola to these same standards?

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Pep has skewed expectations of managers anyways to the point where guys are coming on here saying Ancelotti (and even Wenger at times) underachieved.

Outside serial winners in Ancelotti, OG Mourinho, it gets very scarce when looking at the active managers where their trophies are major but spotty like Tuchel.

The next tier is Emery who is an Europa cup specialist.

Then you got Arteta, who got FA Cup with guys who everybody hated and has kinda sold dreams since.

According to standards some people here have set for Arteta, Ancelotti has underachieved in Milan.
Not according to me.

Ancelotti as manager in AC Milan has 1.94 points per game (as per Transfermarkt).
Arteta as manager in Arsenal has 1.93 points per game so far (as per Transfermarkt).
Shall we compare also these facts?

 

[UpTheGunnerz]

Fs Farzad really has become an influential poster, he started the whole Ancelotti thing

 

[Makavelii]

According to standards some people here have set for Arteta, Ancelotti has underachieved in Milan.
Not according to me.

Ancelotti as manager in AC Milan has 1.94 points per game (as per Transfermarkt).
Arteta as manager in Arsenal has 1.93 points per game so far (as per Transfermarkt).
Shall we compare also these facts?

Also that’s in a far tougher league and includes Arteta’s time learning. Recent results have been at 2.2

2.5 so far this season but very early days.

 

[Iwobeast]

Ancelotti has been managing for 3 decades now, let's compare him to Arteta in 20 years.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

Also that’s in a far tougher league and includes Arteta’s time learning. Recent results have been at 2.2

2.5 so far this season but very early days.

15-20 years ago Serie A was much stronger than now.

Ancelotti is one of the greatest managers ever. Arteta is not his level (not yet for sure).

The fact that Arteta now has similar ppg as Ancelotti had in his AC Milan days should be encouraging for any Arsenal fan.
He has reached high level now, the future will show if he has what it takes to be among the best.

 

[Riou]

Don Carlo has been managing longer than since Arteta was a professional player, ffs...how is this comparison getting made

We need to stop comparing Mikel to the most experienced and successful coaches of the era, to do that you need to wait until Arteta's career is over or much more further along than just 3 full years!

He looks quite a promising young coach who seems to be getting better every year, that's the important thing.

 

[grange]

Don Carlo has been managing longer than since Arteta was a professional player, ffs...how is this comparison getting made

We need to stop comparing Mikel to the most experienced and successful coaches of the era, to do that you need to wait until Arteta's career is over or much more further along than just 3 full years!

He looks quite a promising young coach who seems to be getting better every year, that's the important thing.

I think it's a testament to how far he's risen in just a short amount of time if the toadies are comparing him to Ancelotti. The future is bright for Gooners.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Only two managers that would have been undoubtedly better at Arsenal than Arteta are Guardiola and Klopp.
Unfortunately, they are out of reach.
Maybe De Zerbi but he is still unknown quantity at higher level club like Arsenal with higher pressure.
And yet he lost 5:1 to Everton last season and 3:1 to West Ham few weeks ago at home.

*Should be 4 CL trophies.

Put your medals on the table

 

[Riou]

I think it's a testament to how far he's risen in just a short amount of time if the toadies are comparing him to Ancelotti. The future is bright for Gooners.

We need to start comparing others like Ten Hag to people like Ancelotti too tbh, only fair...see how that absolute loser (who is actually older than Guardiola btw) stacks up in comparison.

You know the guy who has only won a Caribbean Cup here, while also picking up a few pointless shields in the Dutch league (least Arteta had to beat Liverpool and City to win his, as opposed to whatever the **** the likes of ADO Den Hag and Willem II are!)

And let's not forget that Mikel can cite Arsène and Pep as manager inspirations, while Erik grew up working with Steven McClaren!

 

[HattoriHanzo]

View attachment 18415

*Should be 4 CL trophies.

Put your medals on the table

He wouldn´t come to Arsenal.
From what I know he isn´t even interested coming to England.
He refused PSG this summer which is telling.
I can imagine him being interested only in his previous clubs (Real and Juventus).
And French NT, of course

Anyway he doesn´t look to me like a manager who builds the squad (what Arsenal needed in 2019)

 

[albakos]

He wouldn´t come to Arsenal.
From what I know he isn´t even interested coming to England.
He refused PSG this summer which is telling.
I can imagine him being interested only in his previous clubs (Real and Juventus).
And French NT, of course

Anyway he doesn´t look to me like a manager who builds the squad (what Arsenal needed in 2019)

@HattoriHanzo has just signed up and is coming with his katana-swinging to defend Arteta in comparing with few big name managers like Carlo and Zidane who both won trophies galore.